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View Full Version : R-P312(S116) clades in Iberia - M153 & SRY2627



Mikewww
10-09-10, 03:47
I've got a pretty good set of SRY2627 data, but I find very few M153 (found among Basques) haplotypes in the FTDNA projects and in Ysearch. Eupedia lists the following ages for M153 and M167(SRY2627). I'm seeing that variance is lower in M153 than SRY2627 but I've only got about a dozen M153 haplotypes.

How were the TMRCA estimates below calculated? Are they from the same study? or are they using the same methodology?


M153
R1b1b2a1b2 (R1b1c4)
3,350 ybp
Basque country and Gascony Basque
M167/SRY2627
R1b1b2a1b3 (R1b1c6)
2,850 ybp
Spain (esp. Catalonia), Western France, Cornwall, Wales Basque, Catalan, Gascon, Breton, Cornish

Aristander
10-09-10, 04:00
I just got my Deep Clade results back from FTDNA, I am bare R-P312, R1b1b2a1b, which apparently is Alpine Celtic. Interesting since my most distant male ancestor is from Switzerland. I guess my ancestors didn't move around much after they got to the mountains. :grin:

Mikewww
10-09-10, 16:54
I just got my Deep Clade results back from FTDNA, I am bare R-P312, R1b1b2a1b, which apparently is Alpine Celtic....... :grin:
R-P312* is not necessarily Alpine. It is found all over Europe. Please join the P312 project.
http://www.familytreedna.com/group-join-request.aspx?group=R-P312_and_Subclades

Aristander
10-09-10, 22:25
Well I tried to join the project through FTDNA and got a error and 404 page. Apparently there is some sort of problem.

Mikewww
13-09-10, 15:24
This looks like it is working - http://www.familytreedna.com/group-join-request.aspx?group=R-P312_and_Subclades

Mikewww
13-09-10, 15:27
I've got a pretty good set of SRY2627 data, but I find very few M153 (found among Basques) haplotypes in the FTDNA projects and in Ysearch. Eupedia lists the following ages for M153 and M167(SRY2627). I'm seeing that variance is lower in M153 than SRY2627 but I've only got about a dozen M153 haplotypes.

How were the TMRCA estimates below calculated? Are they from the same study? or are they using the same methodology?


M153
R1b1b2a1b2 (R1b1c4)
3,350 ybp
Basque country and Gascony Basque
M167/SRY2627
R1b1b2a1b3 (R1b1c6)
2,850 ybp
Spain (esp. Catalonia), Western France, Cornwall, Wales Basque, Catalan, Gascon, Breton, Cornish

I went back to the study - "The place of the Basques in the European Y-chromosome diversity landscape" by Alonso et al.
http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v13/n12/full/5201482a.html
Quote from Alonso et al:
"There is a trend to consider the gene pool of the Basques as a 'living fossil' of the earliest modern humans that colonized Europe. To investigate this assumption, we have typed 45 binary markers and five short tandem repeat loci of the Y chromosome in a set of 168 male Basques. Results on these combined haplotypes were analyzed in the context of matching data belonging to approximately 3000 individuals from over 20 European, Near East and North African populations, which were compiled from the literature. Our results place the low Y-chromosome diversity of Basques within the European diversity landscape. This low diversity seems to be the result of a lower effective population size maintained through generations."

Umm... low diversity. Perhaps M153 isn't that old after all.

Maciamo, do you have any opinions on the MRCA for R-M153?

KingCE
19-09-10, 19:46
I just got my Deep Clade results back from FTDNA, I am bare R-P312, R1b1b2a1b, which apparently is Alpine Celtic. Interesting since my most distant male ancestor is from Switzerland. I guess my ancestors didn't move around much after they got to the mountains. :grin:

I am also P312 with no more specific marker, and I have tested for all of them that FTDNA have a test for. It isn't clear exactly where my paternal line comes from, although they almost certainly came from somewhere in Britain immediately before the US. I suspect they came to Britain late.

One interesting experiment is to run a search on the YHRD site search engine for various European populations. See if there is a cluster of hits in some general location. The only place in Europe that has a significant number of close hits to my values is the southern part of Spain and Portugal, especially Valencia. Now that is weird. My FTDNA matches are all from Wales, as best I can tell.

For people who test R1b1b2a1b, we just have to wait for more markers to come to light or more research on this group. I suspect this group represents the original Celtic movement out of Central Europe into Iberia.