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View Full Version : Neolithic origin of western R1B –now myth disproven by ancient DNA



paleolithicontinuity
21-09-10, 06:14
The abstract of the article by the name of Ancient DNA from Early Neolithic Farmers suggests a major genetic input from the Near East states that the LBK population shows an affinity to
populations in the modern-day Near East, suggesting a major genetic input from this region at the time of the advent of farming in Europe. If R1b1b2 was common in this sample they would have made note of it (by at least mentioning a similarity to modern European populations.)

secherbernard
21-09-10, 09:12
The abstract of the article by the name of Ancient DNA from Early Neolithic Farmers suggests a major genetic input from the Near East states that the LBK population shows an affinity to
populations in the modern-day Near East, suggesting a major genetic input from this region at the time of the advent of farming in Europe. If R1b1b2 was common in this sample they would have made note of it (by at least mentioning a similarity to modern European populations.)
This article is about mtDNA, and not Y-DNA. So nothing about R1b1b2.

Taranis
21-09-10, 11:04
This article is about mtDNA, and not Y-DNA. So nothing about R1b1b2.

Well, in my opinion R1b1b2 must have arrived even later than the Neolithic farmers in Europe. Also note that all the ancient members of the R1b1b2 clade are decisely found outside of Western Europe. I agree that the arrvial of R1b in Western Europe did probably not occur with the Neolithic Farmers, but is impossible for it to have arrived even earlier given how all the other clades (I'm talking about African and Central Asian clades of R1b) are probably older. The idea that R1b originated in the Iberian glacial refuge has been prettymuch dispoven years ago.

Noman
22-08-13, 01:18
Well, in my opinion R1b1b2 must have arrived even later than the Neolithic farmers in Europe. Also note that all the ancient members of the R1b1b2 clade are decisely found outside of Western Europe. I agree that the arrvial of R1b in Western Europe did probably not occur with the Neolithic Farmers, but is impossible for it to have arrived even earlier given how all the other clades (I'm talking about African and Central Asian clades of R1b) are probably older. The idea that R1b originated in the Iberian glacial refuge has been prettymuch dispoven years ago.
Then give proof of that based on actual archaeology.

The thing is it makes no sense for "older" clades to be further out when evidence we have is they tend to stay stuck in place and it's the actual expansions and contractions that lead to formation of new clades.

Remember ice age happens over and over. Extent of peoples expand then they retreat to refugiums. That bottleneck is what causes a haplogroup in the first place if we believe the methodology these time estimates come from.

sparkey
22-08-13, 01:42
The thing is it makes no sense for "older" clades to be further out when evidence we have is they tend to stay stuck in place and it's the actual expansions and contractions that lead to formation of new clades.

But it's the case that older clades are farther away. The center of diversity of L11+ is apparently in Europe, but what about all of M269? P297? P25? Even if you totally disregard age estimates, the cline of R1b faces away from Europe.