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iodalach_draiodoir
30-09-10, 21:33
I am R-U106. My male line is from Brentonico, Trento, Italy, but the first bearers of the surname came from Verona (which is Brentonico's neighbor) in 17th century; thus it seems to me I have inherited my Y from lombards, since Verona, Brescia and Vicenza where cities they first conquered in 6th century. I always imagine the barbarian invasions as a scenary with the local men being murdered and the women being violented and pregned by the invasors. Maybe this is the history of my most ancient italian male ancestor...

Eireannach
01-10-10, 00:52
I am R-U106. My male line is from Brentonico, Trento, Italy, but the first bearers of the surname came from Verona (which is Brentonico's neighbor) in 17th century; thus it seems to me I have inherited my Y from lombards, since Verona, Brescia and Vicenza where cities they first conquered in 6th century. I always imagine the barbarian invasions as a scenary with the local men being murdered and the women being violented and pregned by the invasors. Maybe this is the history of my most ancient italian male ancestor...


An bhfuil aon Gaeilge agat? Is ainm ait agatsa freisin.

LeBrok
01-10-10, 05:34
Is this Celtic from Ireland, Eireannach?

iodalach_draiodoir
01-10-10, 05:53
An bhfuil aon Gaeilge agat? Is ainm ait agatsa freisin.

Tá mé ag foghlaim Gaeilge :grin:

iodalach_draiodoir
01-10-10, 05:55
Is this Celtic from Ireland, Eireannach?

Exactly, it is Irish Gaelic.

Theodisk
01-10-10, 08:48
Exactly, it is Irish Gaelic.
Gadelos Tacus (old-gaelic/celtic). :grin:

Eireannach
01-10-10, 15:43
Is this Celtic from Ireland, Eireannach?


It is yes, but here in Ireland we just call it Irish.

Eireannach
01-10-10, 15:48
Tá mé ag foghlaim Gaeilge :grin:

Maithú. Tá súil agam go mbainfidh tú sult as. Má tá aon fadhb agat táim bheith breá sásta cuidiú leat.

LeBrok
01-10-10, 17:34
It is yes, but here in Ireland we just call it Irish.

Right, I should have caught that. :cool-v: I'm surprised it's still in use, I though it went extinct. This is my assumption, cause I don't know much about that.

Eireannach
02-10-10, 00:31
Right, I should have caught that. :cool-v: I'm surprised it's still in use, I though it went extinct. This is my assumption, cause I don't know much about that.


Its still in use alright but is very much a minority language nowadays. There are 3 main areas where it is spoken daily by native speakers. These are in the southwest (Corca Dhuibhne) the west (Conamara) and the northwest (Gaoth Dobhair) and the surrounding islands. However there is a semi revival going on especially in the schools where all Irish schools called Gaelscoileanna ( i.e. they teach through the medium of Irish) have sprung up around the country. There are also isolated areas in cities where Irish can be heard spoken daily such as the Gaeltacht in Belfast.

Every school child must learn Irish. It is a compulsory subject.

iodalach_draiodoir
03-10-10, 23:43
Maithú. Tá súil agam go mbainfidh tú sult as. Má tá aon fadhb agat táim bheith breá sásta cuidiú leat.

Tá mé ag baint sult as :satisfied:
Go raibh maith agaibh as ucht cluas a thabhairt dom! :grin:

iodalach_draiodoir
04-10-10, 18:07
One more information to the possible link between lombards and R-U106: lombardian settlement in the Elbe shores was very close to Frisia. Since R-U106 is said to be the frisian marker, maybe it really arrived in Northern Italy brought by lombard invasion. Moreover, lombards could be originated from the same people that originated frisians.

iodalach_draiodoir
04-10-10, 18:16
I am very happy with this kind of revival taking place in all celtic nations; I'm very proud of my celtic roots (in Northern Portugal and Spain, South Germany and Switzerland/Italy) and wish all celtic descents become aware of our wonderful heritage, and the celtic languages are the main of them (btw portuguese and galizan have lots of celtic influence).

I dream of travelling by the celtic lands, starting my trip in Northern Portugal, passing by Spain shores, Gulf of Biscaya, reaching Bretagne, Cornwall, Wales, Scotland, Isle of Man and then Éire. Just waiting for my sabbatic year :laughing:


Its still in use alright but is very much a minority language nowadays. There are 3 main areas where it is spoken daily by native speakers. These are in the southwest (Corca Dhuibhne) the west (Conamara) and the northwest (Gaoth Dobhair) and the surrounding islands. However there is a semi revival going on especially in the schools where all Irish schools called Gaelscoileanna ( i.e. they teach through the medium of Irish) have sprung up around the country. There are also isolated areas in cities where Irish can be heard spoken daily such as the Gaeltacht in Belfast.

Every school child must learn Irish. It is a compulsory subject.

Eireannach
08-10-10, 17:18
I am very happy with this kind of revival taking place in all celtic nations; I'm very proud of my celtic roots (in Northern Portugal and Spain, South Germany and Switzerland/Italy) and wish all celtic descents become aware of our wonderful heritage, and the celtic languages are the main of them (btw portuguese and galizan have lots of celtic influence).

I dream of travelling by the celtic lands, starting my trip in Northern Portugal, passing by Spain shores, Gulf of Biscaya, reaching Bretagne, Cornwall, Wales, Scotland, Isle of Man and then Éire. Just waiting for my sabbatic year :laughing:

Sounds like a nice trip to undertake. Lots of places to see along the way.

Melusine
19-10-10, 00:47
Hi to all you R1b's and subclades

I searched for information/threads on King Tuts y-dna and did not find one here, however, if I have posted this in the wrong spot please move it.

I'm a "newbee" so I can not post URL's yet.

However. on Feb 2010, the Discovery channel posted y-dna results that have been consistent with haplogroup R1b for King Tut. The samples were collected from his paternal grandfather and his own father's mummy's and his own.

If one googles: king Tut y-dna haplogroup, then go to results under: Discovery Channel program reveals King Tut Family etc. . there is a Jehovah -witness site here , and then got to Moshe (postee), and he gives the 17 STR'S/markers that were found.

Ps. I'm not religious, but this is the site that I found with the values for King Tut's y-dna.

His paternal line is known to have "come out of no where", since they were not descendants of the early Egyptian Dynasty lines.

Melusine

willy
19-10-10, 00:59
There is no official paper about his Y DNA just people who saw a video about his DNA test so some markers were viewed ? and some people said R1b so there is NOT any official things about that story just rumors . The Egyptians are the rulers of this test so they don't talk or made this official by a scientific paper Y DNA analysis . Anyway if I am wrong and if somebody could give the link about this official and scientific DNA paper I would love it ! Thank you

Willy

Melusine
19-10-10, 03:10
Hi to all .

If one is interested in where the STR'S (markers) for King Tut came from one can go to: Google and search; latest news on king tut's y-dna results. On the results and under King Tut Scottish? How far can DNA....
the article is by Heritage Key. see From the data exposed in the documentary" King Tut Unwrapped, click on to "this video" and start watching at about 1:50 or less. And the markers are in plain view.

Then as to how these markers were identified with haplogroup R1b. Google. on the same Google search header as above: go to: the article ; King Tut's DNA is Western European?. The person Dr. Whit Athey, that copied these numbers and found the R1b haplotype is featured here. " Mr. Athey received his doctorate in physics and biochemitstry at Tufts Unif etc." and he has developed "the Haplogroup Predictor).

I personally have found that By inserting one's results in the format of this predictor it gives a very reliable haplogroup/haplotype.

I for one, would never argue with Dr. Whit Athey. Since all I know about genetics is "being around disected frogs". And a bit more about my G2a3b1a1a haplogroup and learning as I go.

If these are the actual markers, then I beg the question, not, is King Tut Scottish?, but are European R1b's Egyptians ?lol. What came first , the chicken or the egg?

Melusine

willy
19-10-10, 03:44
You have just seen the video and people said this is R1b1b2 OK well ! and do you believe really that story to myself without any official publication this "evidence" is ZERO and I think the Egyptians are not clear with this story they want may be doing some manipulations I a Scottish match to Tut it means that the dynasty was found by just one European in Egypt more than 3000 years ago and there is no more R1b1b2 European type in Egypt actually ? this is quite crazy to believe that kind of story Tut is maybe R1b but certainly not R1b1b2 as the Europeans so to myself he is more probably G2a3b1

On the web site I can see " The Secretary General of the Egyptian Supreme Council of Antiquities, Zahi Hawass, had previously stated that he would never reveal the DNA results of King Tut, whose racial make-up has been a source of dispute for many." So the video is shown by every body and we can see the STR markers and every body say this is R1b OK I think this is purely idiot to naively believe that Zahi Hawass is so stupid to let this video showing the STR markers to everybody ....this is the link : http://www.therightperspective.org/2010/06/06/king-tut-dna-99-6-western-european/ (http://www.therightperspective.org/2010/06/06/king-tut-dna-99-6-western-european/)

On an other page "The DNA test results were inadvertently revealed on a Discovery Channel TV documentary filmed with Hawass’s permission (this is really a good jock) — but it seems as if the Egyptian failed to spot the giveaway part of the documentary which revealed the test results."

http://www.arthurkemp.com/?p=522

Melusine
19-10-10, 04:05
Hi Willy,

Please don't shoot the messenger. I'm just sharing what is "out there".

Since I'm not paternally of the R1b hg, this is what I have found since the findings of Tut's mummy and testing because I find genetic genealogy interesting.

Melusine

Aristander
19-10-10, 05:55
I suspect the site in this link The Right Perspective ( http://www.therightperspective.org/2010/06/06/king-tut-dna-99-6-western-european/) is far right winged racist site.
Personally I think that Tut was of European lineage but I have a very hard time accepting much that comes from that site as being the gospel. :innocent:

willy
19-10-10, 12:51
Hi Willy,

Please don't shoot the messenger. I'm just sharing what is "out there".

Since I'm not paternally of the R1b hg, this is what I have found since the findings of Tut's mummy and testing because I find genetic genealogy interesting.

Melusine

I don't shoot the messager I shoot the rumor so I share with you all the information aud comments seen on the web pages anyway I know you are not paternally R1b1b2 as everybody (the common European paleolithic haplogroup) you are G2a3b1 (4500 years old - Bronze age) who is probably a kind of aristocratic lineage among the Franks or the Germanic tribes . Anyway I try to explain that there is not an official genetic paper on Tut Y DNA there is just a rumor the video is a montage the real haplotype was hidden they (the Egyptians) shown an other one haplotype . Melusine excuse me for all but I love the truth and the Egyptians are not stupid ...

willy
19-10-10, 12:57
I suspect the site in this link The Right Perspective (http://www.therightperspective.org/2010/06/06/king-tut-dna-99-6-western-european/) is far right winged racist site.
Personally I think that Tut was of European lineage but I have a very hard time accepting much that comes from that site as being the gospel. :innocent:
Personally I think also he could be from an European lineage as R1b so E and J are also Europeans but Tut is certainly not from the modal Atlantic R1b1b2 ... So this rumor is based just on a video and this "info" is often seen on that kind of pages (Nationalist or racist) I believe only the papers who come from an official research not that kind of "middle age rumor" As I said the Egyptians and Zahi Hawass are not stupid

Melusine
19-10-10, 18:42
I agree that Zahi Hawass is not "stupid". And there is just too much "murkyness" around these markers (did the team on the video "plant them?".) What I can't understand is why the values and haplogroup were not and have not been published or released by Hawass, since I "presume" that all that expensive y-dna testing was not paid for out of Hawass's personal "pocket", so this makes one wonder why the Egyptian Government is not forthcomig with this information.

This is not what one would expect from a world renowned archeologist like Hawass, nor the team of geneticists from other countries that performed these tests. How strange.

Melusine

willy
19-10-10, 20:19
I agree that Zahi Hawass is not "stupid". And there is just too much "murkyness" around these markers (did the team on the video "plant them?".) What I can't understand is why the values and haplogroup were not and have not been published or released by Hawass, since I "presume" that all that expensive y-dna testing was not paid for out of Hawass's personal "pocket", so this makes one wonder why the Egyptian Government is not forthcomig with this information.

This is not what one would expect from a world renowned archeologist like Hawass, nor the team of geneticists from other countries that performed these tests. How strange.

Melusine

This is a sensible subject the Egyptians have many communities from different origins so the all the Egyptians want to be the descendants of the old Egyptians surely because it was as you know a great civilization anyway without any official publication about this Y DNA we don't know what was Tut haplogroup . If we are supposing that haplogroup was the R1b1b2 Atlantic modal who is the most common within the western population the consequences are very strange because how to explain that in the actual Egyptians there is no R1b1b2 Atlantic modal ? so some esoteric ideas could explain that R1b1b2 modal Atlantic haplogroup came from Atlantis in the Atlantic Ocean this is may be why all the western European coast is full of this haplogroup ? You could also have this explanation ; some of these Atlanteans R1b1b2 came to Egypt to rebuilt the Old Atlantean civilization etc ... or some Indo Europeans master race R1b1b2 came to Egypt from Anatolia .. the Hittites .. all these kind of stories ... you can believe to

Melusine
20-10-10, 22:34
Hi to all,

I wrote a response that disappeard into "cyberspace", so I'll give it another try.

There is a very good site/forum where King Tut's y-dna is featured.
Google latest news on king Tut's y-dna, about pg 5 of results. go to: RootsWeb: GENEALOGY-DNA L RE DNA TMRCA of Rib1b2s to King Tut.

A page will come up rootsweb Genealogy dna L Archives/ Tread Robert Tarin Some more Tut DNA STR values from the video. Go to the very bottom of page on this thread and there are responses posted.
The responses from Thomas Khahn are important because he is a geneticist with FTDNA. The other person to read is Anatole Klyosov, Ph.D biochem. There is also good input from Ray Banks who works with ISOGG (International Society of Genetic Genealogists).

Anatole has written a "valuable" article on DNA that one might find informative. Yahoo: Anatole Klyosov, on about pg 1 of results go to PDF Anatole Kyosov, The principles of DNA genealogy etc. this is a 31 page article . On pg 3 (begin at very bottom righthand side) and 4, QUOTE: and Haplogroup R1b and its subgroups (observed primarily, but not exclusively, in Europe, Western Asia, and Northern Africa.")

Keeping in mind that King Tut's y-dna is over 3,000 years old one has to consider that there were perhaps millions of people living in Egypt (someone had to build all those tombs and pyramids) compared to very few peoples living in Europe around this time. If you look up population tables, the numbers are there for comparison. Unless a person matches these "presumed" results closely, there is still no relationship to King Tut (Eqyptians) for thousands of years

Y-DNA testing as we know it now is a very "new tool", not much older for public (genealogical) uses than perhaps 10 years.

From all published DNA sites it appears that very few males have tested their y-dna in other countries (like in Egypt, Middle East), (this excludes African haplogroups A & B, and Haplogroups C (Asians) at this point in time. The Modals were devised with European origins results in mind.

Melusine

willy
20-10-10, 22:56
Hi to all,

I wrote a response that disappeard into "cyberspace", so I'll give it another try.

There is a very good site/forum where King Tut's y-dna is featured.
Google latest news on king Tut's y-dna, about pg 5 of results. go to: RootsWeb: GENEALOGY-DNA L RE DNA TMRCA of Rib1b2s to King Tut.

A page will come up rootsweb Genealogy dna L Archives/ Tread Robert Tarin Some more Tut DNA STR values from the video. Go to the very bottom of page on this thread and there are responses posted.
The responses from Thomas Khahn are important because he is a geneticist with FTDNA. The other person to read is Anatole Klyosov, Ph.D biochem. There is also good input from Ray Banks who works with ISOGG (International Society of Genetic Genealogists).

Anatole has written a "valuable" article on DNA that one might find informative. Yahoo: Anatole Klyosov, on about pg 1 of results go to PDF Anatole Kyosov, The principles of DNA genealogy etc. this is a 31 page article . On pg 3 (begin at very bottom righthand side) and 4, QUOTE: and Haplogroup R1b and its subgroups (observed primarily, but not exclusively, in Europe, Western Asia, and Northern Africa.")

Keeping in mind that King Tut's y-dna is over 3,000 years old one has to consider that there were perhaps millions of people living in Egypt (someone had to build all those tombs and pyramids) compared to very few peoples living in Europe around this time. If you look up population tables, the numbers are there for comparison. Unless a person matches these "presumed" results closely, there is still no relationship to King Tut (Eqyptians) for thousands of years

Y-DNA testing as we know it now is a very "new tool", not much older for public (genealogical) uses than perhaps 10 years.

From all published DNA sites it appears that very few males have tested their y-dna in other countries (like in Egypt, Middle East), (this excludes African haplogroups A & B, and Haplogroups C (Asians) at this point in time. The Modals were devised with European origins results in mind.

Melusine

It will be Easer to give us your links as I made myself Thank you to share your informations

Willy

Melusine
20-10-10, 23:24
Hi Nico,

The forum rules/prompt will not allow me to post URL'S until I have more than 10 posts, since I'm a "newbee".

Melusine

willy
01-11-10, 17:59
Hi to all,

I wrote a response that disappeard into "cyberspace", so I'll give it another try.

There is a very good site/forum where King Tut's y-dna is featured.
Google latest news on king Tut's y-dna, about pg 5 of results. go to: RootsWeb: GENEALOGY-DNA L RE DNA TMRCA of Rib1b2s to King Tut.

A page will come up rootsweb Genealogy dna L Archives/ Tread Robert Tarin Some more Tut DNA STR values from the video. Go to the very bottom of page on this thread and there are responses posted.
The responses from Thomas Khahn are important because he is a geneticist with FTDNA. The other person to read is Anatole Klyosov, Ph.D biochem. There is also good input from Ray Banks who works with ISOGG (International Society of Genetic Genealogists).

Anatole has written a "valuable" article on DNA that one might find informative. Yahoo: Anatole Klyosov, on about pg 1 of results go to PDF Anatole Kyosov, The principles of DNA genealogy etc. this is a 31 page article . On pg 3 (begin at very bottom righthand side) and 4, QUOTE: and Haplogroup R1b and its subgroups (observed primarily, but not exclusively, in Europe, Western Asia, and Northern Africa.")

Keeping in mind that King Tut's y-dna is over 3,000 years old one has to consider that there were perhaps millions of people living in Egypt (someone had to build all those tombs and pyramids) compared to very few peoples living in Europe around this time. If you look up population tables, the numbers are there for comparison. Unless a person matches these "presumed" results closely, there is still no relationship to King Tut (Eqyptians) for thousands of years

Y-DNA testing as we know it now is a very "new tool", not much older for public (genealogical) uses than perhaps 10 years.

From all published DNA sites it appears that very few males have tested their y-dna in other countries (like in Egypt, Middle East), (this excludes African haplogroups A & B, and Haplogroups C (Asians) at this point in time. The Modals were devised with European origins results in mind.

Melusine

I think there was more people in Europe 3000 years ago than in Egypt so this just my opinion .. if somebody could confirm or not TY . Anyway King Tut is may be R1b this is not really original in the actual Egyptian population