How Middle Eastern Milk Drinkers Conquered Europe

Aristander

Regular Member
Messages
195
Reaction score
3
Points
0
Ethnic group
German
Y-DNA haplogroup
R1b1b2a1b*
mtDNA haplogroup
H1
Very interesting narrative of how farming and lactose tolerance allowed Middle Eastern Farmers to out populate and conquer Europe.
The link is to the English Language version from Der Spiegel.
I have included the first section of the article to give you an idea what is in the rest of the article.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/0,1518,723310,00.html

New research has revealed that agriculture came to Europe amid a wave of immigration from the Middle East during the Neolithic period. The newcomers won out over the locals because of their sophisticated culture, mastery of agriculture -- and their miracle food, milk.
Wedged in between dump trucks and excavators, archeologist Birgit Srock is drawing the outline of a 7,200-year-old posthole. A concrete mixing plant is visible on the horizon. She is here because, during the construction of a high-speed rail line between the German cities of Nuremberg and Berlin, workers happened upon a large Neolithic settlement in the Upper Franconia region of northern Bavaria.


The remains of more than 40 houses were unearthed, as well as skeletons, a spinning wheel, bulbous clay vessels, cows' teeth and broken sieves for cheese production -- a typical settlement of the so-called Linear Pottery culture (named after the patterns on their pottery).

This ancient culture provided us with the blessing of bread baking. At around 5300 BC, everyone in Central Europe was suddenly farming and raising livestock. The members of the Linear Pottery culture kept cows in wooden pens, used rubbing stones and harvested grain. Within less than 300 years, the sedentary lifestyle had spread to the Paris basin.
The reasons behind the rapid shift have long been a mystery. Was it an idea that spread through Central Europe at the time, or an entire people?
..... rest of the article at the link.
 
lactose.png

This is lactose tolerance map



It's roughly matching corded ware/battle axe culture. Could be first R1a people in middle of Europe.
 
Very odd newspaper article. Completely at odds with every study I've seen so far.
 
Haha.. Today I saw this article, and there is nothing new to it.

I was in the Dutch Navy in 1974, and we got milk packs from a Spanish firm.
Everyone complained about the taste of the milk, until the Medical Doctor on board explained that people in Spain do need that extra in the milk, because otherwise they would get sick and threw up. Most Dutch can drink one liter of normal cow milk without any problem.
So the knowledge explained in the article is very old news.

And BTW

I also have lactose tolerance, and I am genetically (yDNA) a Proto Celt.
My forefathers lived in Europe for at least 10.000 years. Maybe 30.000 years.

So where is the middle east story based on?
 
I also have lactose tolerance, and I am genetically (yDNA) a Proto Celt.
My forefathers lived in Europe for at least 10.000 years. Maybe 30.000 years.

So where is the middle east story based on?

"Proto-Celt" Y-DNA (that is, certain subclades of R1b) has not been in Europe since 30,000 years ago, and 10,000 years ago is also almost certainly too long ago. There are good speculative maps on this site that give a good best-guess estimate for the migration of R1b people.

The article, I think, was referring to the people associated with the various haplogroups that came with the Neolithic expansion (like J2), but I'm not sure I see an obvious correlation there. I tend to see what LeBrok is seeing: a correlation with R1a peoples, who probably came from the Pontic-Caspian Steppe.
 
lactose.png

This is lactose tolerance map



It's roughly matching corded ware/battle axe culture. Could be first R1a people
in middle of Europe.

Interesting. Does anyone have data for lactose tolerance in Scotland, Ireland, etc.? Ireland has almost no R1a but I had thought that the Irish majority had no problem with milk consumption. I could be wrong and would appreciate help here.
 
Major mistake in the title: they were not Middle Eastern Milk Drinkers, but Eastern European Milk Drinkers (from southern Russia and Ukraine). One of the best proofs is that Middle Easterners are still mostly lactose intolerant, in spite of 10,000 years of domestication. Modern Russians are less lactose tolerant than central and northern Europeans because they have a substantial Mongoloid admixture (Siberian and East Asian) dating at least from the imperial expansion of Russia from the 15th century onward. The Communist period also encouraged movement of people between the various parts of the USSR, bringing lactose intolerant Mongoloid people in Caucasian Russia. The fact remains that pure Caucasian Russians are just as lactose tolerant as other northern Europeans.
 
Interesting. Does anyone have data for lactose tolerance in Scotland, Ireland, etc.? Ireland has almost no R1a but I had thought that the Irish majority had no problem with milk consumption. I could be wrong and would appreciate help here.
This is from Jean M's excellent site which was referenced here again today in the new Bell Beaker thread. The color coding is easier for me to read than the gray-scale. It's small but if you zoom in, Ireland looks over .8 and Scotland/west England&Wales over .7.

lactose.jpg


http://www.buildinghistory.org/distantpast/indoeuropeangenetics.shtml#lactose
 
That's three world maps and one European map of lactose (in)tolerance, and they all contradict each other pretty badly, especially with regards to South-East Europe, the Middle East and Africa.
 
This is from Jean M's excellent site which was referenced here again today in the new Bell Beaker thread. The color coding is easier for me to read than the gray-scale. It's small but if you zoom in, Ireland looks over .8 and Scotland/west England&Wales over .7.

lactose.jpg


http://www.buildinghistory.org/distantpast/indoeuropeangenetics.shtml#lactose


Thanks,

I had heard of but not seen myself claims that the Irish were more prone to Gluten Intolerance, but I couldn't recall ever hearing that lactose intolerance was a problem for them. They look to be rated very high for tolerence according to this map.
 
I don't know why, but here in Balkan peninsula, I never saw a human who doesnt drink milk. Maybe the map is wrong.
 
I'm 100% sure that the map posted by Eochaidh is very wrong.
 
Sigh..

The map is right. My yDNA group is situated in France, Belgium, The Netherlands, Ireland and Scotland.

And we can drink at least a liter in a few minutes, without getting sick.

Of course most people can drink milk, but only a glass or so.

Regulus and Lebrok are 2 clowns on this forum who try to frustrate every discussion.
 
"Proto-Celt" Y-DNA (that is, certain subclades of R1b) has not been in Europe since 30,000 years ago, and 10,000 years ago is also almost certainly too long ago. There are good speculative maps on this site that give a good best-guess estimate for the migration of R1b people.

The article, I think, was referring to the people associated with the various haplogroups that came with the Neolithic expansion (like J2), but I'm not sure I see an obvious correlation there. I tend to see what LeBrok is seeing: a correlation with R1a peoples, who probably came from the Pontic-Caspian Steppe.

No, you have it all mixed up.
R1a is Eastern Europe.
R1b is Western Europe.
J2 is Caucasian, and maybe Greek, Roman or Phenician.
 
No, you have it all mixed up.
R1a is Eastern Europe.
R1b is Western Europe.
J2 is Caucasian, and maybe Greek, Roman or Phenician.

I don't think I have it mixed up. R1a is common in Eastern Europe, R1b is common in Western Europe, and J2 spreads into the places that you mentioned. But R1b in particular has its center of diversity well East of Western Europe, and the subclade common to Western Europe (R1b1b2a1) is quite young (~6000 years old). Compare to Haplogroup I, which has its center of diversity in Europe and is something like 25,000 years old.
 
What about childhood lactose intolerance, is there a map of this scenario and if yes, do you know what ancient civilizations fit the bill? Thanks :) The reason I ask is I've had issues with milk as a kid but grew out of it as I hit my teenage years.
 
Sounds like you have the african form of lactose tolerance which is not as complete, or maybe you just had bowel issues you outgrew, which is common. Probably more common than celtic having african lactose form.
 
What about childhood lactose intolerance, is there a map of this scenario and if yes, do you know what ancient civilizations fit the bill? Thanks :) The reason I ask is I've had issues with milk as a kid but grew out of it as I hit my teenage years.
It's very unusual, because kids are genetically predispose to drink milk and lots of it.
 

This thread has been viewed 107262 times.

Back
Top