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Maciamo
21-10-10, 10:44
Here is the distribution of Y-DNA haplogroups by province for Belgium based on the current results from the Brabant DNA project (http://www.brabant-dna.org/). The project having originated in Flanders, with a special emphasis on the old Duchy of Brabant (provinces of Antwerp, Flemish Brabant, Walloon Brabant and Brussels) there are far more Flemish samples than Walloon ones at the moment.

Here are first the results for Flanders.


Province of Antwerp

Antwerp region (West) (n=80)

I1 : 11.25%

I2 : 1.25%

I2b : 6.5%

R1b : 63.75%
- R1b-U106/S21 : 27.5%
- R1b-P312/S116 (including L21) : 28.25%
- R1b-U152/S28 : 16.25%

R1a : 5%

G2a : 3.75%

E1b1b : 6.5%

T : 0%

J1 : 0%

J2 : 2.5%

L: 0%

Q : 0%


Kempen region (East) (n=84)

I1 : 21.5%

I2a : 3.6%

I2b : 3.6%

R1b : 54.8%
- R1b-U106/S21 : 14.3%
- R1b-P312/S116 (including L21) : 20.2%
- R1b-U152/S28 : 7.1%

R1a : 7.1%

G2a : 3.6%

E1b1b : 1.2%

T : 0%

J1 : 0%

J2 : 2.4%

L: 1.2%

Q : 2.4%


Mechelen region (South) (n=66)

I1 : 12.1%

I2 : 3%

I2b : 4.5%

R1b : 56%
- R1b-U106/S21 : 31.8%
- R1b-P312/S116 (including L21) : 15.2%
- R1b-U152/S28 : 4.5%

R1a : 3%

G2a : 4.5%

E1b1b : 4.5%

T : 0%

J1 : 1.5%

J2 : 6%

L: 3%

Q : 1.5%


Province of Flemish Brabant (n=134)

I1 : 12.75%

I2 : 3%

I2a : 0.75%

I2b : 4.5%

R1b : 55.2%
- R1b-U106/S21 : 19.4%
- R1b-P312/S116 (including L21) : 21.6%
- R1b-U152/S28 : 9.7%

R1a : 3.75%

G2a : 3.75%

E1b1b : 8.2%

T : 0%

J1 : 3%

J2 : 4.5%

L: 0.75%

Q : 0%


Province of Limburg (n=70)

I1 : 5.7%

I2 : 1.4%

I2b : 4.3%

R1b : 61.4%
- R1b-U106/S21 : 22.8%
- R1b-P312/S116 (including L21) : 27.1%
- R1b-U152/S28 : 10%

R1a : 10%

G2a : 5.7%

E1b1b : 8.5%

T : 0%

J1 : 0%

J2 : 2.8%

L: 0%

Q : 0%


Province of East Flanders (n=120)

I1 : 12.5%

I2 : 2.5%

I2a : 3.3%

I2b : 5.8%

R1b : 61.6%
- R1b-U106/S21 : 24.2%
- R1b-P312/S116 (including L21) : 21.7%
- R1b-U152/S28 : 13.3%

R1a : 4.2%

G2a : 0.8%

E1b1b : 0.8%

T : 1.7%

J1 : 1.7%

J2 : 5%

L: 0%

Q : 0%


Province of West Flanders (n=141)

I1 : 15.7%

I2a : 1.4%

I2b : 2.1%

R1b : 66%
- R1b-U106/S21 : 27%
- R1b-P312/S116 (including L21) : 24.8%
- R1b-U152/S28 : 10%

R1a : 2.1%

G2a : 2.1%

E1b1b : 7.1%

T : 0%

J1 : 0%

J2 : 2.9%

L: 0%

Q : 0.7%

Maciamo
21-10-10, 11:34
Here are the temporary results for Wallonia (only 10% completed). Due to the small number of samples for each province, I have compiled an average for all Wallonia.

Wallonia (n=55)

I1 : 10.9%

I2 : 1.8%

I2b : 7.2%

R1b : 60%
- R1b-U106/S21 : 18.2%
- R1b-P312/S116 (including L21) : 18.2%
- R1b-U152/S28 : 16.4%

R1a : 3.6%

G2a : 3.6%

E1b1b : 7.2%

T : 3.6%

J1 : 0%

J2 : 1.8%

L: 0%

Q : 0%

willy
21-10-10, 13:28
Here are the temporary results for Wallonia (only 10% completed). Due to the small number of samples for each province, I have compiled an average for all Wallonia.

Wallonia (n=55)

I1 : 10.9%

I2 : 1.8%

I2b : 7.2%

R1b : 60%
- R1b-U106/S21 : 18.2%
- R1b-P312/S116 (including L21) : 18.2%
- R1b-U152/S28 : 16.4%

R1a : 3.6%

G2a : 3.6%

E1b1b : 7.2%

T : 3.6%

J1 : 0%

J2 : 1.8%

L: 0%

Q : 0%

Thank you could you please give us the link of the official scientific paper about this very interesting studies
Grateful
Nico

Maciamo
21-10-10, 17:54
Thank you could you please give us the link of the official scientific paper about this very interesting studies
Grateful
Nico

It's not a scientific paper; as stated in the OP it is the Brabant DNA Project (linked above), sponsored by the Flemish government. Only members have access to results by province.

Yorkie
21-10-10, 21:26
Here is the distribution of Y-DNA haplogroups by province for Belgium based on the current results from the Brabant DNA project (http://www.brabant-dna.org/). The project having originated in Flanders, with a special emphasis on the old Duchy of Brabant (provinces of Antwerp, Flemish Brabant, Walloon Brabant and Brussels) there are far more Flemish samples than Walloon ones at the moment.

Here are first the results for Flanders.


Province of Antwerp

Antwerp region (West) (n=80)

I1 : 11.25%

I2 : 1.25%

I2b : 6.5%

R1b : 63.75%
- R1b-U106/S21 : 27.5%
- R1b-P312/S116 (including L21) : 28.25%
- R1b-U152/S28 : 16.25%

R1a : 5%

G2a : 3.75%

E1b1b : 6.5%

T : 0%

J1 : 0%

J2 : 2.5%

L: 0%

Q : 0%


Kempen region (East) (n=84)

I1 : 21.5%

I2a : 3.6%

I2b : 3.6%

R1b : 54.8%
- R1b-U106/S21 : 14.3%
- R1b-P312/S116 (including L21) : 20.2%
- R1b-U152/S28 : 7.1%

R1a : 7.1%

G2a : 3.6%

E1b1b : 1.2%

T : 0%

J1 : 0%

J2 : 2.4%

L: 1.2%

Q : 2.4%


Mechelen region (South) (n=66)

I1 : 12.1%

I2 : 3%

I2b : 4.5%

R1b : 56%
- R1b-U106/S21 : 31.8%
- R1b-P312/S116 (including L21) : 15.2%
- R1b-U152/S28 : 4.5%

R1a : 3%

G2a : 4.5%

E1b1b : 4.5%

T : 0%

J1 : 1.5%

J2 : 6%

L: 3%

Q : 1.5%


Province of Flemish Brabant (n=134)

I1 : 12.75%

I2 : 3%

I2a : 0.75%

I2b : 4.5%

R1b : 55.2%
- R1b-U106/S21 : 19.4%
- R1b-P312/S116 (including L21) : 21.6%
- R1b-U152/S28 : 9.7%

R1a : 3.75%

G2a : 3.75%

E1b1b : 8.2%

T : 0%

J1 : 3%

J2 : 4.5%

L: 0.75%

Q : 0%


Province of Limburg (n=70)

I1 : 5.7%

I2 : 1.4%

I2b : 4.3%

R1b : 61.4%
- R1b-U106/S21 : 22.8%
- R1b-P312/S116 (including L21) : 27.1%
- R1b-U152/S28 : 10%

R1a : 10%

G2a : 5.7%

E1b1b : 8.5%

T : 0%

J1 : 0%

J2 : 2.8%

L: 0%

Q : 0%


Province of East Flanders (n=120)

I1 : 12.5%

I2 : 2.5%

I2a : 3.3%

I2b : 5.8%

R1b : 61.6%
- R1b-U106/S21 : 24.2%
- R1b-P312/S116 (including L21) : 21.7%
- R1b-U152/S28 : 13.3%

R1a : 4.2%

G2a : 0.8%

E1b1b : 0.8%

T : 1.7%

J1 : 1.7%

J2 : 5%

L: 0%

Q : 0%


Province of West Flanders (n=141)

I1 : 15.7%

I2a : 1.4%

I2b : 2.1%

R1b : 66%
- R1b-U106/S21 : 27%
- R1b-P312/S116 (including L21) : 24.8%
- R1b-U152/S28 : 10%

R1a : 2.1%

G2a : 2.1%

E1b1b : 7.1%

T : 0%

J1 : 0%

J2 : 2.9%

L: 0%

Q : 0.7%

Any ideas as to why Kempen would have such a relatively 'high' [3.6%] share of I2a?

Aristander
22-10-10, 00:01
Kempen region (East) (n=84)

I1 : 21.5%

I2a : 3.6%

I2b : 3.6%

If I am reading this correctly, the amount of I2a equals only 3 individuals out of the 84 sampled. However the I1 and I2b show equally elevated percentages above other regions sampled.

Maciamo
22-10-10, 10:45
If I am reading this correctly, the amount of I2a equals only 3 individuals out of the 84 sampled. However the I1 and I2b show equally elevated percentages above other regions sampled.

84 is still a relatively small sample size, but yes Kempen (the north-east corner of Belgium, along the Netherlands) has an unusually high level of hg I, even higher than the Netherlands and North Germany.

Maciamo
31-10-10, 11:52
As for Brabant DNA Project possess extensive results for the Dutch province of North Brabant as well, it would be a shame not to mention it. Here are the results.

Province of North Brabant (Netherlands) (n=138)

I1 : 7.8%

I2a : 2.2%

I2b : 4.3%

R1b : 65.9%
- R1b-U106/S21 : 34%
- R1b-P312/S116 (including L21) : 19.5%
- R1b-U152/S28 : 5.8%
- R1b-SRY2627 : 2.9%

R1a : 1.4%

G2a : 3.6%

E1b1b : 3.6%

T : 1.4%

J1 : 1.4%

J2 : 7%

L: 0%

Q : 0%



There is a surprisingly low percentage of I1 and R1a, and an unexpectedly high percentage of J1 and J2. Actually all the other studies that I combined to create the Y-DNA frequency table (http://www.eupedia.com/europe/european_y-dna_haplogroups.shtml) also gave a slightly higher percentage of J2 in the Netherlands than in Belgium or West Germany. The question is why ?

9 out of the 10 North Brabant J2 individuals were J2a, and only one was J2b. One was J2a4b (M67) and three J2a4b1 (M92), which are subclades fairly common in South Italy and Turkey, but not in France or Germany. Only two M92 and three M67 were identified out of over 800 Belgian samples - and all spread out in different provinces. This probably rules out a Neolithic origin of the Dutch J2. Besides, the percentage of E1b1b is only half of J2, which is the opposite pattern of seen in Belgium and West Germany.

The reason for this high incidence of J2a(4b) and J1 might reside in the fact that North Brabant was the northern frontier of the Roman Empire, where lots of fortified settlements were located, presumably defended by soldiers from Italy or other southern parts of the empire. Italy and Greece are the countries with the highest incidence of J1 and J2a in Europe.

4 members from North Brabant were found to belong to R1b-SRY2627, a subclade more typical of southern France and Spain. Only two SRY2627 were identified in Belgium, one in Flanders and one in Wallonia. Again it is unusual to find such a high frequency of a Mediterranean haplogroup in a Dutch province.

R1b-U106/S21 is higher in North Brabant than anywhere in Belgium. This at least is consistent with what we already knew at the national level for Belgium and the Netherlands.

Haganus
31-10-10, 13:03
During the war of the Dutch independency (1568-1648) the Dutch province
of Noord-Brabant was occupied by Spanish militaries and other mercenaries.
After it there was a high frequency of foreign soldiers (Germans, Frenchs)
in Noord-Brabant. How is the situation in other Dutch provinces?

Maciamo
31-10-10, 14:57
I have made some maps to illustrate the two main subclades of R1b around Belgium.

http://www.eupedia.com/images/content/Benelux-map-R1b-S21.jpg

http://www.eupedia.com/images/content/Benelux-map-R1b-S28.jpg

The hotspot of R1b-U152/S28 around Antwerp might be due to the high presence of French-speaking Walloons in this city. Antwerp is the most Francophone of all Flemish cities (well, after Brussels, which has become predominantly French-speaking). Ghent has the second largest French-speaking community, which may explain why East Flanders ranks second with 13.5%.

From the little data available for Wallonia, it seems that R1b-U152/S28 peaks in the centre and east (province of Namur and Liège), while R1b-U106/S21 appears stronger in the west (Hainaut).

how yes no 2
31-10-10, 15:32
There is a surprisingly low percentage of I1 and R1a, and an unexpectedly high percentage of J1 and J2. Actually all the other studies that I combined to create the Y-DNA frequency table (http://www.eupedia.com/europe/european_y-dna_haplogroups.shtml) also gave a slightly higher percentage of J2 in the Netherlands than in Belgium or West Germany. The question is why ?

9 out of the 10 North Brabant J2 individuals were J2a, and only one was J2b. One was J2a4b (M67) and three J2a4b1 (M92), which are subclades fairly common in South Italy and Turkey, but not in France or Germany. Only two M92 and three M67 were identified out of over 800 Belgian samples - and all spread out in different provinces. This probably rules out a Neolithic origin of the Dutch J2. Besides, the percentage of E1b1b is only half of J2, which is the opposite pattern of seen in Belgium and West Germany.

I don't think that sampling was exclusively for people with dutch origin...

Could it be that elevated levels of J2a in Netherlands and Belgium are in fact representing just recent economical emigrants from Turkey? many of them do have Dutch and Belgian nationality...

how yes no 2
31-10-10, 18:20
language division fairly well correlates with different genetical origin...
http://www.eupedia.com/images/content/Benelux-map-R1b-S21.jpghttp://www.eupedia.com/images/content/Benelux-map-R1b-S28.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/85/Communities_of_Belgium.svg/307px-Communities_of_Belgium.svg.pnghttp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/80/Be-map.png

Obviously, province of Antwerp http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1a/BelgiumAntwerp.png/125px-BelgiumAntwerp.png
is different from expected and that is why it was separated in 3 parts...
west part where city of Antwerp is shows high influence of both lineages, but surprisingly east and south parts of province show lack of expected R1b lineages... east region has lot of I1, and south region has lot of J2

secherbernard
31-10-10, 19:25
I have made some maps to illustrate the two main subclades of R1b around Belgium.

http://www.eupedia.com/images/content/Benelux-map-R1b-S21.jpg

http://www.eupedia.com/images/content/Benelux-map-R1b-S28.jpg

The hotspot of R1b-U152/S28 around Antwerp might be due to the high presence of French-speaking Walloons in this city. Antwerp is the most Francophone of all Flemish cities (well, after Brussels, which has become predominantly French-speaking). Ghent has the second largest French-speaking community, which may explain why East Flanders ranks second with 13.5%.

From the little data available for Wallonia, it seems that R1b-U152/S28 peaks in the centre and east (province of Namur and Liège), while R1b-U106/S21 appears stronger in the west (Hainaut).
Maciamo, could you please give the map for R1b-P312/S116 (I guess mainly L21) ?

how yes no 2
20-12-10, 01:09
I have made some maps to illustrate the two main subclades of R1b around Belgium.

http://www.eupedia.com/images/content/Benelux-map-R1b-S21.jpg

http://www.eupedia.com/images/content/Benelux-map-R1b-S28.jpg


could it be that U-106 is due to Batavi or Frisians (knowing distribution in Netherlands would help to know which one), while U-152 is due to Franks?

R.Rocca
31-12-10, 01:09
Maciamo, I was wondering if any more Wallonia results have come in and if so, if there is still a strong U152 showing in Namur and Liège.

Maciamo
31-12-10, 12:06
Maciamo, I was wondering if any more Wallonia results have come in and if so, if there is still a strong U152 showing in Namur and Liège.

Only about 10% of the tests for Wallonia have been completed yet, so yes there will be more coming. Unfortunately they seem to have problems finding enough participants. From the current results U152 seems indeed to be strongest in the provinces of Namur, Liège and Luxembourg.

Maciamo
31-12-10, 12:09
could it be that U-106 is due to Batavi or Frisians (knowing distribution in Netherlands would help to know which one), while U-152 is due to Franks?

No, the Franks were almost certainly an admixture of R-U106, R1a, I1, and I2b.

R-U152 is either Gaulish Celt (descended from La Tène migrants who settled in the Meuse-Mosel region in the 5th century BCE) or "Roman" (Italic). Unfortunately there is no way to distinguish Gaulish from Roman at present, which is a shame as I always wanted to know in what proportion the Romans settled in different parts of their empire.

R.Rocca
09-02-11, 21:07
Only about 10% of the tests for Wallonia have been completed yet, so yes there will be more coming. Unfortunately they seem to have problems finding enough participants. From the current results U152 seems indeed to be strongest in the provinces of Namur, Liège and Luxembourg.

Maciamo, any update on the Brabant project data, especially the above provinces? Also, what data will be available for purchase once the project is complete? Thanks.

Maciamo
10-02-11, 09:30
Maciamo, any update on the Brabant project data, especially the above provinces? Also, what data will be available for purchase once the project is complete? Thanks.

No, unfortunately they seem to have problems finding participants for Wallonia, so things aren't progressing as quickly as they should.

Reinaert
05-03-11, 12:48
Well.. About Brabant.

One shouldn't forget that the former Duchy of Brabant is now changed into the Belgian Provinces Flemish Brabant, Walloon Brabant, Antwerp, Kempen, and Brussels.
And the Dutch Province of Noord Brabant, in common also named Brabant.

The Major cities were Brussels, Louvain, Antwerp in Belgium, and Breda and Den Bosch in The Netherlands.

The city of Den Bosch was established by the Duke of Brabant to protect the nothern flank of the Duchy, while the dukes originally were from Louvain.
(Counts of Louvain)
In the process, a lot of people moved from the South of the Duchy of Brabant to the Northern part.
And during a later period (ending into the 80 year war) the city of Antwerp saw many citizens move to the countryside. This explains the relative high number of some smaller haplogroups.

Province of North Brabant (Netherlands) (n=138)

I1 : 7.8%

I2a : 2.2%

I2b : 4.3%

G2a : 3.6%

E1b1b : 3.6%

T : 1.4%

J1 : 1.4%

J2 : 7%

--------------------------

It is not so difficult to imagine a harbor like Antwerp as a melting pot or a DNA pool, just like it is today.
Antwerp was and still is a cosmopolitan city.

Jehan
12-03-11, 21:51
About the creation of the maps: what does the percentages represent? The current distribution of the DNA-donators or the distribution of the oldest known forefathers?

Jehan

how yes no 2
12-03-11, 23:12
Any ideas as to why Kempen would have such a relatively 'high' [3.6%] share of I2a?

I am curious about type of I2a found..

both Kempen in Belgium and Noord Brabant in the Netherlands have somewhat elevated I2a

I2* is in continental west Europe found on line from Italy to Denmark... and in continental east Europe from Black sea to Baltic along Dnieper...

I2a2 spread seems to follow Danube, Dniester and lower part of Dnieper...

my guess is that I2a in central and west Europe didnot spread only along Danube but also from Bodensee (Constance lake) along Rhine...

elevated J2 might be similar story... though J2 are in general sea people, while I2a are river people, so J2 might have even arrived with ships around coasts of Europe...


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b3/Europa_Ludwigskanal_Rhein_Main_Donau.png
http://www.euratlas.net/geography/europe/rivers/dniester.jpg
http://www.euratlas.net/geography/europe/rivers/dnieper.jpg
http://www.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup_I2a.gif

I2a = east/west linear pottery?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/10/European_Middle_Neolithic.gif/800px-European_Middle_Neolithic.gif

willy
15-03-11, 20:20
No, the Franks were almost certainly an admixture of R-U106, R1a, I1, and I2b.

R-U152 is either Gaulish Celt (descended from La Tène migrants who settled in the Meuse-Mosel region in the 5th century BCE) or "Roman" (Italic). Unfortunately there is no way to distinguish Gaulish from Roman at present, which is a shame as I always wanted to know in what proportion the Romans settled in different parts of their empire.

Yes so I think the Frankish elite was G2a3b1 according the Capetian bloodline and the 1/3 of G2a3b* found in a Merovingian high rank burial in Ergolding (Bavaria)

Maciamo
26-06-11, 17:01
There a few more results for Wallonia the total number is now 69. I have added 5 more results from people I know who didn't take part to the project, so the total is 74.

Wallonia (n=74)

I1 : 11.2%

I2* : 1.4%

I2a : 0%

I2b : 6.8%

R1b : 59.5%
- R1b-U106/S21 : 21.6%
- R1b-P312/S116 (including L21) : 17.6%
- R1b-U152/S28 : 17.6%

R1a : 4%

G2a : 4%

E1b1b : 9.5% (including 6.8% of E-V13)

T : 2.7%

J1 : 0%

J2 : 1.4%

L: 0%

Q : 0%

Let's note the complete absence of haplogroup I and R1a from the provinces of Liège and Luxembourg at the moment. This is ironic as these are the two provinces that border Germany and that have the most Germanic place names (see Belgian toponymy (http://www.eupedia.com/belgium/belgian_place_names.shtml)). The province of Namur has a remarkable 28.5% of hg I (19% of I1 and 9.5% of I2b), 9.5% of R1a and 14% of R1b-U106, which makes it the most Germanic province of Wallonia (61.5% of lineages). This is also ironic since it is the province with the greatest proportion of Latin and Celtic place names.

There is only one Walloon belonging to haplogroup J (J2a) so far, which is also surprising considering the relatively high incidence of E1b1b (n=7) and T (n=2).

Also interesting is the absence of R1b-U152 from the province of Hainaut and Luxembourg. The latter is surely due to the tiny sample size for that province (only 5 participants). R1b-U152 is otherwise found at 17.4% of lineages in Walloon Brabant, 19% in the province of Namur and a staggering 40% in the province of Liège (where the total incidence of R1b reaches 80%).

R1b-P312 ranges from only 4.8% in Namur province to 18.8% in Hainaut, 20% in Luxembourg, 23.5% in Walloon Brabant, and 26.6% in Liège.

Notwithstanding the 40% in the province of Luxembourg that is undersampled, R1b-U106 peaks in Hainaut with 31.2%, followed by Walloon Brabant with 23.5%, 14% in Namur, 13.3% in Liège. This makes sense as the Hainaut is a geographic and historical continuity of Flanders, and Walloon Brabant as its name indicate is just a Francophone expansion of an otherwise Dutch-speaking region.

Wallonia appears therefore to be far more heterogeneous than Flanders. The gradient seems to be mostly from the hilly east to the flat west, with a hotspot of haplogroup I1, I2b and R1a in the Meuse valley in the middle. Only haplogroup E1b1b is found in similar proportions everywhere.

Maciamo
26-06-11, 17:42
I am curious about type of I2a found..

both Kempen in Belgium and Noord Brabant in the Netherlands have somewhat elevated I2a


There is no I2a2 in Belgium. It's mostly the south-west European I2a.

how yes no 2
26-06-11, 18:08
There is no I2a2 in Belgium. It's mostly the south-west European I2a.
yes.
I think Bohemia/Bavaria is roughly where I2 splits.... I2a2 goes to east along Danube and north of Carpathians, I2a1 to west and south, I2b to north and west...
later some I2b also travelled to east with Germanic people...

interestingly, there is significant I2* in Wallonia....
do you perhaps know where else in west/central Europe we find significant I2*?

Maciamo
26-06-11, 19:52
interestingly, there is significant I2* in Wallonia....
do you perhaps know where else in west/central Europe we find significant I2*?

1.6% isn't really significant. Flemish Brabant has 3% and East Flanders 2.5% of I2*. I don't know any other region that has more than 1% of I2*, but that may just be because older Y-DNA studies didn't differentiate I2 subclades clearly, and also because there are no good detailed regional studies of France and Switzerland at the moment. I expect that both countries could potentially hide pockets of I2* just like Belgium, especially in isolated areas where Paleolithic lineages could have survived in greater number.

Maciamo
26-06-11, 20:37
I have updated the maps of U152 and U106 based on the new data from Wallonia.


http://www.eupedia.com/images/content/Benelux-map-R1b-S21.jpg

http://www.eupedia.com/images/content/Benelux-map-R1b-S28.jpg

R.Rocca
02-07-11, 23:55
There a few more results for Wallonia the total number is now 69. I have added 5 more results from people I know who didn't take part to the project, so the total is 74.

Wallonia (n=74)

I1 : 11.2%

I2* : 1.4%

I2a : 0%

I2b : 6.8%

R1b : 59.5%
- R1b-U106/S21 : 21.6%
- R1b-P312/S116 (including L21) : 17.6%
- R1b-U152/S28 : 17.6%

R1a : 4%

G2a : 4%

E1b1b : 9.5% (including 6.8% of E-V13)

T : 2.7%

J1 : 0%

J2 : 1.4%

L: 0%

Q : 0%

Let's note the complete absence of haplogroup I and R1a from the provinces of Liège and Luxembourg at the moment. This is ironic as these are the two provinces that border Germany and that have the most Germanic place names (see Belgian toponymy (http://www.eupedia.com/belgium/belgian_place_names.shtml)). The province of Namur has a remarkable 28.5% of hg I (19% of I1 and 9.5% of I2b), 9.5% of R1a and 14% of R1b-U106, which makes it the most Germanic province of Wallonia (61.5% of lineages). This is also ironic since it is the province with the greatest proportion of Latin and Celtic place names.

There is only one Walloon belonging to haplogroup J (J2a) so far, which is also surprising considering the relatively high incidence of E1b1b (n=7) and T (n=2).

Also interesting is the absence of R1b-U152 from the province of Hainaut and Luxembourg. The latter is surely due to the tiny sample size for that province (only 5 participants). R1b-U152 is otherwise found at 17.4% of lineages in Walloon Brabant, 19% in the province of Namur and a staggering 40% in the province of Liège (where the total incidence of R1b reaches 80%).

R1b-P312 ranges from only 4.8% in Namur province to 18.8% in Hainaut, 20% in Luxembourg, 23.5% in Walloon Brabant, and 26.6% in Liège.

Notwithstanding the 40% in the province of Luxembourg that is undersampled, R1b-U106 peaks in Hainaut with 31.2%, followed by Walloon Brabant with 23.5%, 14% in Namur, 13.3% in Liège. This makes sense as the Hainaut is a geographic and historical continuity of Flanders, and Walloon Brabant as its name indicate is just a Francophone expansion of an otherwise Dutch-speaking region.

Wallonia appears therefore to be far more heterogeneous than Flanders. The gradient seems to be mostly from the hilly east to the flat west, with a hotspot of haplogroup I1, I2b and R1a in the Meuse valley in the middle. Only haplogroup E1b1b is found in similar proportions everywhere.

Maciamo, thanks again for posting these numbers. Do you have the U152 breakdown of the 17.6% in Wallonia?

Maciamo
03-07-11, 10:02
Maciamo, thanks again for posting these numbers. Do you have the U152 breakdown of the 17.6% in Wallonia?

In the text you quoted.

R.Rocca
03-07-11, 20:00
In the text you quoted.

Sorry, I did not make myself clear. I meant the U152 breakdown by province within Wallonia.

Bodin
21-08-11, 05:52
If I understood you good , you said there is not I2a2 -Din in Belgium , but because Belgium was on border there is some amount of J1 and J2 in it - mainly from Italy and Greece . Could that mean that there is no I2a2-Din in Balkans ( Greece ) in that time , and my theory of Sarmatian origin of I2a2-Din could be true ? Soory for imposing my own interest:ashamed2:

MOESAN
14-11-11, 21:41
thank you for the percentages on Wallonia
i'm very hungry to see mor data because these result are evidently too contradictory, almost impossible to take in account in this stade
I 'd think Walloons are more on the U152 side than on the U106 side (more 'Gauls' than the North Picards Frenchmen) it's my bet
waiting to read some new data

MOESAN
21-12-11, 15:32
Maciamo, thanks again for posting these numbers. Do you have the U152 breakdown of the 17.6% in Wallonia?

the topic got cold enough!!! but I find the sample is very very too scarce, even more when we consider the provinces of Wallonia (typical is the opposition between Ardennes and the Liege region: unreliable - wait and see... even the Hainaut, close to France Nord (pseudo Flander) has to high level of RU106

Maciamo
15-02-17, 13:58
It's been over 6 years since the Brabant Y-DNA Project was completed. I have tried to gather additional Y-DNA samples from Wallonia as the sample size was tiny (n=55) compared to Flanders (about 1000). I have recalculated the frequencies based on the new sample size.


Wallonia (n=137)

I1 : 10.9%

I2a1/I2c : 1.4%

I2a2a : 3.6%

R1b : 60.5%
- R1b-U106/S21 : 17.5%
- R1b-P312 (xU152) : 13.9%
-- R1b-U152/S28 : 13.1%
- other R1b (V88, M269, L23, L11, L51): 3.6%
- undetermined R1b subclade : 12.4%

R1a : 7.3%

G2a : 5.1%

E1b1b : 5.8%

T : 3.6%

J1 : 0%

J2 : 1.4%

L: 0%

Q : 0%


No change for I1, R1b or T, but E1b1b, I2a2a and J2 decreased, while G2a and R1a increased. The percentage of R1a has doubled and now vastly exceeds that of Flanders.

If the undetermined R1b subclades are ignored, the percentage of R1b-U106 is Wallonia is actually 22%, while R1b-U152 is 16.5%. With the previous data those percentages were respectively 18% and 16.5%, so U106 has increased. I was able to get a more accurate provincial breakdown for U106 and U152 in Walloon provinces.

http://www.eupedia.com/images/content/Benelux-map-R1b-S21.jpg

http://www.eupedia.com/images/content/Benelux-map-R1b-S28.jpg


The western province of Hainaut and the centre-north Walloon Brabant have an unusually high percentage of I1: 16% and 21% - like the Netherlands and Schleswig-Holstein respectively. But as the sample sizes are still small, it may not be correct.

If I add up the typically Germanic haplogroups (I1, I2a2a-L801, R1a and R1b-U106), I get the following percentages:

Namur : 50%
Hainaut : 45%
Walloon Brabant : 35%
Liège : 32%
Luxembourg : 25%

Ironically, Liège scores pretty low despite being the only part of Belgium where German is spoke. It was also the seat of the Carolingian dynasty and it remained part of Germany until the French revolution. The historical Duchy of Luxembourg was split in two in 1839 when the country of Luxembourg was created. The country was mainly German speaking, while what became the Belgian province of Luxembourg was the predominantly French speaking part.

It's odd that Namur should have the highest percentage of Germanic haplogroups as it was the most Romanised part of Belgium and still has the highest percentage of Roman or Celtic toponyms (http://www.eupedia.com/belgium/belgian_place_names.shtml) in Belgium.

mwauthy
15-02-17, 15:17
When they did these tests in the Brabant or previously in Normandy how deep was the y testing? I notice results are always listed as I1 or R1b-U106. Is that the extent of the y testing or just the way the results are being presented. I'm curious about the deeper subclades for these areas.

Maciamo
15-02-17, 17:32
When they did these tests in the Brabant or previously in Normandy how deep was the y testing? I notice results are always listed as I1 or R1b-U106. Is that the extent of the y testing or just the way the results are being presented. I'm curious about the deeper subclades for these areas.

They only tested top levels haplogroups, except for E1b1b (V13, M34 and M81), J2 and and R1b (M269, P312, U152, U106). Keep in mind that the project was mostly done in 2010.

In 2013, the re-tested R1b participants for deeper subclades (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/29129-Deeper-R1b-subclade-resolution-for-the-Brabant-Y-DNA-Project-(Belgium)).

Maciamo
16-02-17, 11:10
Here are the frequencies for the Grand Duchy of Luxembourg (n=38)

I1 : 2.5%

I2a1/I2c : 2.5%

I2a2a : 5%

R1b : 60.5%
- R1b-U106/S21 : 23.5%
- R1b-P312 (xU152) : 8%
-- R1b-U152/S28 : 10.5%
- other R1b (V88, M269, L23, L11, L51): 2.5%
- undetermined R1b subclade : 15.5%

R1a : 2.5%

G2a : 10.5%

E1b1b : 5%

T : 0%

J1 : 2.5%

J2 : 8%

L: 0%

Q : 0%


Although the percentage of R1b is identical to Wallonia and Flanders, the other haplogroups are completely different. Luxembourg is more shifted toward the Eastern Mediterranean, which is expected considering the high level of Romanisation (in the 3rd century, nearby Trier was the capital of the Gallic Empire then briefly also of the Western Roman Empire) and the local phenotypes (few light hair, shorter statures, bigger and more aquiline noses). The percentages of G2a and J2a are particularly elevated, but there is also a J1 sample, while so far there had only been one for all Belgium with 30x the sample size of Luxembourg. The three J2 samples all belong to J2a1-M67.

What's more, the only R1a sample from Luxembourg is a Middle Eastern Z93 (Z2123), not a Germanic L664 or Z284 like in Wallonia.

What is also surprising is the low frequency of I1 compared to Wallonia or Germany. Mind you, it's even lower than in northeast Italy, Catalonia or Galicia! Rather odd for a German-speaking country. That apparent contradiction may be explained by the unusually high level of U106 in Luxembourg.

If we exclude the R1b samples not tested for deep clades, 32% of the population belongs to R1b-U106, a higher proportion than anywhere in Belgium, Germany or Scandinavia, and close to the high levels observed in the Netherlands and England.

The Alpine Celtic and Roman R1b-U152 is at 14%, similar to levels observed in Belgium.

Moselle_boy
14-04-17, 21:06
Here are the frequencies for the Grand Duchy of Luxembourg (n=38)

I1 : 2.5%

I2a1/I2c : 2.5%

I2a2a : 5%

R1b : 60.5%
- R1b-U106/S21 : 23.5%
- R1b-P312 (xU152) : 8%
-- R1b-U152/S28 : 10.5%
- other R1b (V88, M269, L23, L11, L51): 2.5%
- undetermined R1b subclade : 15.5%

R1a : 2.5%

G2a : 10.5%

E1b1b : 5%

T : 0%

J1 : 2.5%

J2 : 8%

L: 0%

Q : 0%


Although the percentage of R1b is identical to Wallonia and Flanders, the other haplogroups are completely different. Luxembourg is more shifted toward the Eastern Mediterranean, which is expected considering the high level of Romanisation (in the 3rd century, nearby Trier was the capital of the Gallic Empire then briefly also of the Western Roman Empire) and the local phenotypes (few light hair, shorter statures, bigger and more aquiline noses). The percentages of G2a and J2a are particularly elevated, but there is also a J1 sample, while so far there had only been one for all Belgium with 30x the sample size of Luxembourg. The three J2 samples all belong to J2a1-M67.

What's more, the only R1a sample from Luxembourg is a Middle Eastern Z93 (Z2123), not a Germanic L664 or Z284 like in Wallonia.

What is also surprising is the low frequency of I1 compared to Wallonia or Germany. Mind you, it's even lower than in northeast Italy, Catalonia or Galicia! Rather odd for a German-speaking country. That apparent contradiction may be explained by the unusually high level of U106 in Luxembourg.

If we exclude the R1b samples not tested for deep clades, 32% of the population belongs to R1b-U106, a higher proportion than anywhere in Belgium, Germany or Scandinavia, and close to the high levels observed in the Netherlands and England.

The Alpine Celtic and Roman R1b-U152 is at 14%, similar to levels observed in Belgium.

Hello Maciamo,

How can R-U106 be that high in Luxembourg? (higher than Belgium) Did the Franks settled in Luxembourg in great number ?
Do you think that maybe we need to wait for more testers before drawing conclusion ? (like the undersampled 40% of R-U106 province of Luxembourg in Wallonia).

Thank you for your work.

Moselle_boy
15-04-17, 00:02
Here are the frequencies for the Grand Duchy of Luxembourg (n=38)

I1 : 2.5%

I2a1/I2c : 2.5%

I2a2a : 5%

R1b : 60.5%
- R1b-U106/S21 : 23.5%
- R1b-P312 (xU152) : 8%
-- R1b-U152/S28 : 10.5%
- other R1b (V88, M269, L23, L11, L51): 2.5%
- undetermined R1b subclade : 15.5%

R1a : 2.5%

G2a : 10.5%

E1b1b : 5%

T : 0%

J1 : 2.5%

J2 : 8%

L: 0%

Q : 0%


Although the percentage of R1b is identical to Wallonia and Flanders, the other haplogroups are completely different. Luxembourg is more shifted toward the Eastern Mediterranean, which is expected considering the high level of Romanisation (in the 3rd century, nearby Trier was the capital of the Gallic Empire then briefly also of the Western Roman Empire) and the local phenotypes (few light hair, shorter statures, bigger and more aquiline noses). The percentages of G2a and J2a are particularly elevated, but there is also a J1 sample, while so far there had only been one for all Belgium with 30x the sample size of Luxembourg. The three J2 samples all belong to J2a1-M67.

What's more, the only R1a sample from Luxembourg is a Middle Eastern Z93 (Z2123), not a Germanic L664 or Z284 like in Wallonia.

What is also surprising is the low frequency of I1 compared to Wallonia or Germany. Mind you, it's even lower than in northeast Italy, Catalonia or Galicia! Rather odd for a German-speaking country. That apparent contradiction may be explained by the unusually high level of U106 in Luxembourg.

If we exclude the R1b samples not tested for deep clades, 32% of the population belongs to R1b-U106, a higher proportion than anywhere in Belgium, Germany or Scandinavia, and close to the high levels observed in the Netherlands and England.

The Alpine Celtic and Roman R1b-U152 is at 14%, similar to levels observed in Belgium.

Hello Maciamo,

How can U106 be that high in Luxembourg (near the level of Netherlands)? Did the Franks settled in great number in Luxembourg and replaced the celtic tribe ? or just ruled the already present population ?

Maybe we need to wait for more samples before drawing conclusion (like the undersampled 40% of U106 in the province of Luxembourg in Wallonia).

By the way, thank you for your work.

Maciamo
15-04-17, 12:34
Hello Maciamo,

How can U106 be that high in Luxembourg (near the level of Netherlands)? Did the Franks settled in great number in Luxembourg and replaced the celtic tribe ? or just ruled the already present population ?

Maybe we need to wait for more samples before drawing conclusion (like the undersampled 40% of U106 in the province of Luxembourg in Wallonia).

By the way, thank you for your work.

Luxembourgers speak a Frankish dialect, so it is undeniable that the Franks settled there in number high enough to become linguistically dominant over Latin speakers.

Moselle_boy
15-04-17, 16:54
Luxembourgers speak a Frankish dialect, so it is undeniable that the Franks settled there in number high enough to become linguistically dominant over Latin speakers.

Thanks for the info

Now, what I don't understand is the low percentage of l1 and R1a in Luxembourg since the Franks carried them too.