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ProudTobeTurk
04-12-10, 02:56
:innocent:

His ancestors were Turcomans of Karaman who were settled into the Balkans in order to increase the numbers of Turkics in the region.

Profesori turk Enver Behnam Shapolyo shkruan: "Për gjyshërit e Ataturkut kisha pyetur një shok shkolle të Ataturkut, që ka qenë deputet, i quajtur Haxhi Mehmeti. Ai më tha: -Gjyshërit e Ataturkut janë nga komuna e Dibrës, Koxhshëk, të cilët kishin ardhur nga Konja e Anadollit dhe flisnin turqisht, për këtë shkak quheshin edhe "konjarë"...

Mustafa was born as the son of Mr and Mrs Ali Rıza Efendi Turkish and Zübeyde Hanım in Salonika, which was then a part of the Ottoman Empire. It was also home to various peoples in the cosmopolitan Muslims with Jews and Christians lived together peacefully mainly. Mustafa's paternal grandfather, Kızıl Hafız Ahmed was one of the Yörük Türkmen. His mother was the daughter of an old peasant, originally from Konya, Karaman-derived family of the little town Langasa (now Langadas) in Thessaloniki. The parents were married 1871,


"Efendiler, benim atalarım Anadolu'dan Rumeli'ye gelmiş Yörük Türkmenler'dendir "
M.Kemal Atatürk


"Gentlemen, my ancestors came from Anatolia to Rumelia is from the Turkmen Yörük "
M. Kemal Ataturk

and according to Falih Rıfkı Atay, Ali Rıza's roots have come from Söke in Aydın Province.[13][14] His mother Zübeyde is thought to be of Turkish[10][11] and according to Şevket Süreyya Aydemir, her roots have come from Turkoman (Türkmen) and in his family, there was roumor that they have come of Yörük.[15]

ProudTobeTurk
04-12-10, 03:03
Search on Youtube: Proof: Mustafa Kemal Ataturk was Yörük Turkmen! True Origins

Neander
20-02-11, 00:53
It is a lie, to make turks let him in the throne of Turkey.

He was an albanian, great albanian who reformed the Turkey, from a medieval to modernity.

sparkey
21-02-11, 19:12
I didn't know it was controversial that he was half Albanian and half Turkmen. Ethnic controversies are deep in the region, though, I bet that clouds academic knowledge of his past.

iapetoc
22-02-11, 00:42
In fact I live near Thessaloniki and people say another story

it has connection with Langada town but not with karaman

In fact his real house is not the today Turkish consultat but 50 meters away,
local know that,

stories tell that he was born to Langada and came as child to Thessaloniki,
and connects them with donmie if i write it correct
Muslim Jews of Thessaloniki, in fact the area where his house was is Between pasa garden , seich river
but above the muslim Jews mahala,
many locals say that he was adopted by Riza family,
although I can not prove that,
but the connection with Jew community is a wide rumor in thessaloniki

Turkish had papers of born and death, these papers are not lost or burned,
someone can find Information by those papers,
in fact by those papers many children were found, as also houses fields etc,

now if Turkish officials can not find them probably something is behind,
But I believe turkish officer can find them and say clear who he was,
although such men have country the country they defend

barbarian
22-02-11, 13:42
i dont care about his blood. he is the god in my eyes. and he is Atatürk (father of turks)

Taranis
22-02-11, 19:53
i dont care about his blood. he is the god in my eyes. and he is Atatürk (father of turks)

Frankly, there's a long long history of people, for good and for bad, becoming powerful leaders in places or with peoples which not really were their home:

- Salah Ad-Din was actually Kurdish.

- Catherine the Great was actually from Germany.

- Napoleon Bonaparte was from Corsica, which belonged to Genoa, an Italian state, until one year before his birth.

- Joseph Stalin was actually born in Georgia.

- Adolf Hitler was actually born in Austria.

(please note that I'm not trying to compare Kemal with Stalin or Hitler, I'm just saying that none of the above rose to power in their home countries) Therefore, why should it be an issue that Mustafa Kemal was Albanian? Especially if you consider how the Ottoman Empire was a multi-ethnic empire to begin with. But yeah, none of this changes the fact that he is, almost literally, the father of the modern Turkish nation.

Michael Folkesson
22-02-11, 20:16
Nationality isn't borne in the blood.

ProudTobeTurk
25-05-11, 21:13
"His mother, barely literate, claimed to be descended from the Yuruks of Anatolia,"

Source:Charismatic political leadership: a theory

Ann Ruth Willner - 1968

And

Research monograph:

University of Texas at Austin. Bureau of Business Research, Woodrow Wilson School of Public and International Affairs. Center of International Studies - 1968

"Thus she liked to think that she had in her veins some of the pure fair blood of the Yuruks, those nomadic descendants of the original Turkish tribes who still survive in isolation among the Taurus Mountains."

Source:Ataturk: a biography of Mustafa Kemal, father of modern Turkey

Baron Patrick Balfour Kinross - 1965

Time, 24-Mar-1923, DETAILS: Where is the Turk his own master
read what it had to say on the matter you asked me before
_ unstained reputation. Some of these wild reports charged him with being anything from a traitor to his country to being a "foreigner." Kemal is pure Turk (not, as some have said, a Jew) and has proved to the whole world that he is the core of Modern Turkey

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,726976,00.html#ixzz18pnedDGl

Kocacık Köyünden Veyis Lemo (76), Atatürkün atalarının Karaman kökenli olduklarını, Kızıloğuzlar yörüklerinden oldukları için Kızıl lakabıyla tanındıklarını söyledi.

Translate to English

Veyis Lemo (76 year old) from Kocacik village said atatürk's ancestors came from Karaman and they were called "kizil" (Red) Because they were from Kiziloguz Yörük Tribe,

Source:
http://www.hurriyet.de/haberler/gundem/342603/ataturkun-baba-ocagi

watch this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXMjGwBhMcw


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vOvaHyE4To

ProudTobeTurk
25-05-11, 21:14
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXMjGwBhMcw


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vOvaHyE4To

Valmir
25-05-11, 22:01
Everyone knows he is a Turk, But here we are talking about his "Origin"
And we know very good that he was Albanian,His family was from "Dibra" and after his family moved in Selanik. , Harold Armstrong wrote for his origin.

iapetoc
25-05-11, 22:05
All the above are assumes or quess,
Pappers man, pappers,

Turks had organised offces at thessaloniki that time,

Kemal should be written as family name etc,

only we know is the name Riza,
in pappers he was kemal Riza,

the rest are myths,

in official turkish papers he is named as Riza,

I don't understand,

By turkish pappers (kitap) we can find relatives, find Fields, houses and can not find Kemal's
simply outrageous,

from what it is left in Thesaloniki he's name is Kemal Riza,
and surely is not Albanian,
Riza family was a rich family of Turks, rspected by many
by what I know many pappers of Turkish moved from Thessaloniki when excange had Happened, at 1924,

so these pappers are in Turkish Hands,
why Turkish can not find them and say theories???????

I know Turkish had 4 books in these areas
1 for Muslims
1 for Greeks
1 For Bulgarians
1 For Jews
1 for the rest (Francais mainly-Catholics of Thessaloniki Lazaristes monastery and St Paul hospital)

I know that at 1927 that book went to Con/polis only the Turks that left kept their pappers and were written in the mew cataloques. the rest as the possesion (fields, houses etc) went to Turkey so the turkish can exchange the fields and houses of Greeks with the Turkish.


I don't understand, why Greeks kept the pappers of ex-Ottoman empire and know who were they and Turkish claim Histories,

we can informations about families from 1855 and after in many places after Turkish pappers and can not find about Kemal???

ProudTobeTurk
26-05-11, 13:29
Everyone knows he is a Turk, But here we are talking about his "Origin"
And we know very good that he was Albanian,His family was from "Dibra" and after his family moved in Selanik. , Harold Armstrong wrote for his origin.

Well Valmir,i heard skanderbeg was greek half serbian just like ataturk is jewish or albanian?,

Ali riza efendi wasnt from dibra,was from Macedonia Kocacik,

Watch This Video i had many sources in the video from books wroted by none-Turks,also you can see some Yuruks in Macedonia,Greece,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bG3dtreG5dU&feature=channel_video_title

ProudTobeTurk
26-05-11, 13:46
All the above are assumes or quess,
Pappers man, pappers,

Turks had organised offces at thessaloniki that time,

Kemal should be written as family name etc,

only we know is the name Riza,
in pappers he was kemal Riza,

the rest are myths,

in official turkish papers he is named as Riza,

I don't understand,

By turkish pappers (kitap) we can find relatives, find Fields, houses and can not find Kemal's
simply outrageous,

from what it is left in Thesaloniki he's name is Kemal Riza,
and surely is not Albanian,
Riza family was a rich family of Turks, rspected by many
by what I know many pappers of Turkish moved from Thessaloniki when excange had Happened, at 1924,

so these pappers are in Turkish Hands,
why Turkish can not find them and say theories???????

I know Turkish had 4 books in these areas
1 for Muslims
1 for Greeks
1 For Bulgarians
1 For Jews
1 for the rest (Francais mainly-Catholics of Thessaloniki Lazaristes monastery and St Paul hospital)

I know that at 1927 that book went to Con/polis only the Turks that left kept their pappers and were written in the mew cataloques. the rest as the possesion (fields, houses etc) went to Turkey so the turkish can exchange the fields and houses of Greeks with the Turkish.


I don't understand, why Greeks kept the pappers of ex-Ottoman empire and know who were they and Turkish claim Histories,

we can informations about families from 1855 and after in many places after Turkish pappers and can not find about Kemal???


are you from thessaloniki then?

iapetoc
26-05-11, 14:03
are you from thessaloniki then?


outside, I study at Thessaloniki,
I lived near Turkish consultat, where they say that was Kemal house,

But I know that he was Born in Lagada town, as you said Lagasa,

and his original house is not the today consultat but a few meters down,

as locals say,

maybe his family moved at the house that is today Turkish consultat before 1923,


there are many myths about Kemal,

like some Greeks say the day he was born was sun eclipse etc.
or he was Jew, or Greek etc,

the most sure is that he was born in Lagada,
his family moved at Thessaloniki when he was a kid,
his official family name is Riza.
the rest are myths.
among them the most spread and possible is that he was son of a muslim Jew (Doenmeh) family, that worked for Ali Riza in Langada,
and adopted by Riza family which they educated him, etc,

At least the majority of Greeks of Thessaloniki believes that.
He was very clever, and many say he could be a mathematian , if not military,

his father was trader from around Langada area forests (woods and coal merchant)

Riza name is wide spread among Greeks Turkish and I heard Albanians,
Riza or Rizos-Ritsos in Greek means eithher rice farmer, either rich-man.
Rizas = rice farmer
Rizos = wealthy man (has Gold)
rizos, sarafis, altinis, etc are considered Names given by Turks to wealthy merchants.

there is also the word Riziko rizitika etc
which means face my roots, face the destiny, and mostly are mourn rebel songs,
rizites in Crete considered Greeks that did not accept Venetians,
But I don't believe that is connected
the ending of the name riza is -a -as that ending is famous in west-thrace and in adrianoupolis area (edirne) around smyrna people used the -lis so if he was from Aydin he would be Rizali
and if from Karaman probably will -la or -lar, Rizala, Rizalar
the ending as -a, -as , or -e, -es is consider Turk.
althought today exist in Greek and in Albanian names,


perhaps rumors are rumors,

All I know is that he was Mustafa Riza,
later became Kemal Attaturk.
Surely what ever his origin such man belong to the country that they loved.
now the case for Being Albanian
hmmm I don't know if the Turks leave an Arnaut to go so high.
I know that many Arnauts reach high posts, but so high to reform Turkey, and kick Sultan???
And if he was Albanian why take care so much the East Ottoman and did not care about the west Ottomans, the Albanians, why he was so much to kick Greeks from Pontus and Smyrna,
and did not Help the west Muslims, the Albanians!!!!
why he was mostly to assimilate Kurds and hunt Armenians, and Left Albanians to their fate and the hands of Ismael Vlore? didn't he want an exit west to Italy and Austria via Adriatic????


-----------------------------------------------------

about Zeybeks let me have my precautions,
Zeybeks are not considered Turks

Zei-Beks greek Ζειμπεκηδες, and their Dance Zeimpekikos
are considered an ancient tribe or culture from east of Smyrna areas
Mostly Kula tepe, Yoldabasin areas etc

Ζειμπεκικος In Greek is same like an ancient dance name of Vrygians (Phrygians) Βακχικος
Bachus dance. Ζευ-Βακχος (Bachus became God) Ζευβακχικος Zeybakchicos
It is considered Thracian (Vrygian origin)
at early times Zeimpekikos was like Serra dance (Pyrrich) of Pontian Greeks, and was danced with knifes like also the Cappadokian dances,

Zeimpeks were pain in the ass for the Sultans,
they were Cristians, mostly
and serve Sultans as special police forces and inner military soldiers,
Never outside,
Zeimpeks mainly escort the caravans from far east to Prusa and Smyrna (Bursa-Ismir)
Zeimpeks many times were connected with Hadji tribe against Sultan,
in Greece the name Zeimpekis is up to 20 000 people and the pre-name Hadji is almost 150 000 people all came from areas east of Smyrna and south of Konya, mostly from Kula tepe Area

in minor Asia Hadji and Zeimpeks had Kullas (small castles)
the many turn around fast of modern Zeimpekikos Dance is to compare with Turkish Dervish,
Zeimpeks were mainly enemies of Dervish people, that is why modern Zeimpek is like Dervish dance but with hands turning down,
Dervish 1 hand up 1 hand down, (I take from God, I give to people)
Zeimpek 2 hands up 2 hands down (I was Bachus(human) and Became Zeus(God))
Zeimpeks and Hadji tribes many times caused troubles and many times allied Sultans,
Zeimpeks it is said that was the army of Nikaia empire of Laskaris,
the prename hadji was given to them cause they were forbiden to Speak Rumlar
Hadji people dance a kind of Garsilama, and women had spoons
the name hadji was given to them by Turks cause they change language in cities (almost forgot Greek language) but did not change religion, and every year a group of them visited jerusalem
I think turks call Hadji the one who visits Mekka
most of Zeimpeks that moved to Greece after 1923 have name Hadji- before their name
and primary 90% did not know a single Greek word at 1923
the 5 old dances with knifes are
1 the pitsiak -Serra of Pontic Greeks
2 the Cappadokian dance wich was simmilar with Zeimpek
3 the Vrygian Zeimpek
4 a Geg Albanian dance which steps simmilar with cappadokian but sounds different
(althought i can be mistaken)
5 a palestinian dance with knifes that is simmilar to pontic Greek pitsiak-macheria

and a persian dance that is danced by women !!!!
there is also a modern dance in Makedonia with swords but has another explanation and is modern.
you can find them in youtube.

Zeimpeks dances are
Aivali (Κυδωνιες) aptal zeimpek
smyrna Taxim Zeimpek
Kullali Zeimpek
Karaduzen (tekke - smokers) Zeimpek

Taranis
26-05-11, 23:03
What I totally do not get is actually why it is apparently so important that Mustafa Kemal purportedly was a so-called "Yörük Turkmen"? Does this really matter? I mean, it should change absolutely nothing about who Mustafa Kemal was or wasn't, and what he did for Turkey, and what he didn't. For the sake of an argument, he might have also been Huguenot, Irish, Sephardi-Jewish, Polish or Circassian... or Cherokee? :laughing:

Valmir
27-05-11, 00:25
Well Valmir,i heard skanderbeg was greek half serbian just like ataturk is jewish or albanian?,

Sorry my friend but you are not hearing good, Gjergj Kastrioti was Albanian and he came from an Albanian family, The Kastrioti family which made all other big familys in Albania together!
And about the Ataturk, i understand that you cant accept that he is Albanian beacus its hard for a country with 80 million to have a Albanian dad.

Hal Fao
27-05-11, 02:52
Nationalist histories are always intriguing.
I have read many such stories that consider "albanians" the founders of modern states neighboring Albania.
The truth of these stories hide in remote antiquity, in the turrhenian (pelasgian) peoples whose language was similar to Albanian. In fact until two centuries ago, the number of peoples which spoke "Albanian" in Turkey, Greece and Italy has been very great. Only a small part of them were Albanian immigrants, the majority were "autochthonous albanians" ie descendants of the turrhenian populations who joined the local populations by creating the respective nations together with them.
In this regard Ataturk was Turkish, not Albanian. He did not speak Albanian too.

Taranis
27-05-11, 09:35
Nationalist histories are always intriguing.
I have read many such stories that consider "albanians" the founders of modern states neighboring Albania.
The truth of these stories hide in remote antiquity, in the turrhenian (pelasgian) peoples whose language was similar to Albanian. In fact until two centuries ago, the number of peoples which spoke "Albanian" in Turkey, Greece and Italy has been very great. Only a small part of them were Albanian immigrants, the majority were "autochthonous albanians" ie descendants of the turrhenian populations who joined the local populations by creating the respective nations together with them.
In this regard Ataturk was Turkish, not Albanian. He did not speak Albanian too.

This is off-topic, but there is no evidence whatsoever that Albanian is related with "Pelasgian" (which is very hard to grasp, anyways) or with Tyrrhenian (which would be the Greek word for the Etruscans). I showed very clearly in that other thread that Etruscan was a non-Indo-European language, whereas Albanian verymuch is.

In my opinion, Albanian is most closest related to the Old Balkan languages (principally Dacian), but it has also borrowings from Greek and Latin.

zanipolo
27-05-11, 09:44
I was always taught that the modern albanians are of dacia stock, basically vlachs.

As for skandenberg, if I recall correctly, he was of a neapolitan family called castrioti , who had ties militarily and by commerce with Naples.

Taranis
27-05-11, 09:50
I was always taught that the modern albanians are of dacia stock, basically vlachs.

Albanian has a significant number of cognates with Romanian, specifically words found exclusively in both Albanian and Romanian.

ihype02
25-08-17, 08:29
Good to know he was not Albanian. Turks can have him though all they want.

Leandros
25-08-17, 12:09
Great. Another high fantasy thread from Turks and Albanians. Just great.

zagortenay
10-02-18, 10:52
As far as I know Macedonians also claim that his father's family was from a Macedonian village. Personally he looks like a Macedonian and maybe Albanian, but one thing that is certain is that he did not have origins in Anatolia. We are talking about his origins. Of course he was a typical Ottoman citizen who was brought up with Ottoman culture, learned Turkish as first language etc.




^ (https://www.wikizero.com/en/Mustafa_Kemal_Pasha#cite_ref-18) Andrew Mango (https://www.wikizero.com/en/Andrew_Mango) Atatürk: The Biography of the Founder of Modern Turkey, Overlook Press, 2002, ISBN (https://www.wikizero.com/en/International_Standard_Book_Number) 978-1-58567-334-6 (https://www.wikizero.com/en/Special:BookSources/978-1-58567-334-6), p. 25 (https://books.google.com/books?ei=ZhvATKOVHcelcN3GoPkL&ct=result&id=nu68vd_AmuYC&dq=Andrew+Mango&q=Turkish+speaking+family+#search_anchor), p.27ff. – "Feyzullah's family is said to have come from the country near Vodina (now Edhessa in western Greek Macedonia). The surname Sofuzade, meaning 'son of a pious man', suggests that the ancestors of Zübeyde and Ali Rıza had a similar background. Cemil Bozok, son of Salih Bozok, who was a distant cousin of Atatürk and, later, his ADC, claims to have been related to both Ali Rıza's and Zübeyde's families. This would mean that the families of Atatürk's parents were interrelated. Cemil Bozok also notes that his paternal grandfather, Safer Efendi, was of Albanian origin. This may have a bearing on the vexed question of Atatürk's ethnic origin. Atatürk's parents and relatives all used Turkish as their mother tongue. This suggests that some at least of their ancestors had originally come from Turkey, since local Muslims of Albanian and Slav origin who had no ethnic connection with Turkey spoke Albanian, Serbo-Croat or Bulgarian, at least so long as they remained in their native land. But in looks Atatürk resembled local Albanians and Slavs.[...] But there is no evidence that either Ali Riza or Zübeyde was descended from such Turkish nomads." page 28; "It is much more likely that Atatürk inherited his looks from his Balkan ancestors.[...] But Albanians and Slavs are likely to have figured among his ancestors."

avarex
13-02-18, 22:27
Kastrioti was of Slav-Macedonian descent.

LABERIA
13-02-18, 22:32
Kastrioti was of Slav-Macedonian descent.

Not true, but i don`t see how much is related with this thread this your opinion.

XipeTotek
27-06-18, 12:19
i think he is half albanian and turkish like me.

who care he is a good leader of the turkic history. we dont care origin of him.

you can say ottoman leaders are pure turkish origin? i think no.

turks always doing together with another ethnicities, greeks, albanians, bosnians, arabs, armenians, kurds, persians, east iranians, scyhtians, uralic tribes, mongolians.

so turks better than a origin. we mixed all of them.

NiceIllustrator
15-07-18, 13:34
Everyone knows he is a Turk, But here we are talking about his "Origin"
And we know very good that he was Albanian,His family was from "Dibra" and after his family moved in Selanik. , Harold Armstrong wrote for his origin.

Interesting, my fathers mothers fathers side of the family was from the debar region, primarily from the river(Radika?). Could you help me locate some place called "Bogdoga" ? Think it's nearby, but can't find it on any map on any language.,.

Edit: Besides who the hell cares about his ethnic origin, why do people get so emotionally attached.....Maybe he was 100% Yöruk, maybe he was 100% Albanian, maybe 100% Greek. What does it really change? It isn't and shouldn't be regarded as an insult to "Turkishness" since he himself said that it's a nationality and everyone living under the turkish flag is turkish.

BeautyAny
14-09-18, 14:42
Wow, male perspective here! Great post! Thanks for sharing your experience with us.