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Carlitos
19-12-10, 22:35
IBERIANS.


The Iberians developed a surprisingly sophisticated culture in the Mediterranean coast of the Iberian Peninsula from the 6th century BC until their conquest by the Romans in the 2nd century BC. They spoke and wrote a non-Indo-European language that still cannot be understood; their origins and relationships with other non-Indo-European peoples, like the Etruscans, are unclear, since their funerary practices were based on the cremation of bodies, and therefore anthropology has been unable to approach the study of this people. We have retrieved mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) from a few of the scarce skeletal remains that have been preserved, some of them belonging to ritualistically executed individuals. The most stringent authentication criteria proposed for ancient DNA, such as independent replication, amino-acid analysis, quantitation of template molecules, multiple extractions and cloning of PCR products, have been followed to obtain reliable sequences from the mtDNA hypervariable region 1 (HVR1), as well as some haplogroup diagnostic SNPs. Phylogeographic analyses show that the haplogroup composition of the ancient Iberians was very similar to that found in modern Iberian Peninsula populations, suggesting a long-term genetic continuity since pre-Roman times. Nonetheless, there is less genetic diversity in the ancient Iberians than is found among modern populations, a fact that could reflect the small population size at the origin of the population sampled, and the heterogenic tribal structure of the Iberian society. Moreover, the Iberians were not especially closely related to the Etruscans, which points to considerable genetic heterogeneity in Pre-Roman Western Europe.

The most frequent haplogroup is H (52.9%), followed by U (17.6%), J (11.8%), and pre-HV, K and T at the same frequency (5.9%). No samples were found to correspond to other haplogroups that are widely present in the Iberian peninsula populations (Table 7), such as V, X, I or W. The North African U6 subhaplogroup and Sub-Saharan African L lineages are also absent from the ancient Iberians analyzed so far; therefore, the possible entry of U6 lineages prior to the Muslim conquest in the 8th century A.D., as suggested by some authors, remains unproven. However, it is recognized that the sample size is at present too small to exclude any competing hypothesis about a possible North African genetic contribution to the genesis of the Iberian peninsula populations.


For the study, mitochondrial DNA was extracted from skeletal remains of individuals, some of them ritually executed. The most frequent haplogroups are:


H (52.9%)
U (17.6%)
J (11.8%)
pre-HV (5.9%)
K (5.9%)
T (5.9%)

It is shown that the composition of the ancient Iberian haplogroup is very similar to the current mainland population (although there is a lower genetic diversity in ancient remains.) However, no currently haplogroups found widely spread throughout the Iberian peninsula as V, X, I or W.


About the U6 found in Galicia.

[COLOR=#000000]Sequencing of 81 entire human mitochondrial DNAs (mtDNAs) belonging to haplogroups M1 and U6 reveals that these predominantly North African clades arose in southwestern Asia and moved together to Africa about 40,000 to 45,000 years ago. Their arrival temporally overlaps with the event that led to the peopling of Europe by modern humans and was most likely the result of the same change in climate conditions that allowed humans to enter the Levant, opening the way to the colonization of both Europe and North Africa. Thus, the early Upper Palaeolithic population carrying M1 and U6 did not return to Africa along the southern coastal route of the "out of Africa" exit, but from the Mediterranean area; and the North African Dabban and European Aurignacian industries derived from a common Levantine source.

Wilhelm
20-12-10, 02:00
IBERIANS.


The Iberians developed a surprisingly sophisticated culture in the Mediterranean coast of the Iberian Peninsula from the 6th century BC until their conquest by the Romans in the 2nd century BC. They spoke and wrote a non-Indo-European language that still cannot be understood; their origins and relationships with other non-Indo-European peoples, like the Etruscans, are unclear, since their funerary practices were based on the cremation of bodies, and therefore anthropology has been unable to approach the study of this people. We have retrieved mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) from a few of the scarce skeletal remains that have been preserved, some of them belonging to ritualistically executed individuals. The most stringent authentication criteria proposed for ancient DNA, such as independent replication, amino-acid analysis, quantitation of template molecules, multiple extractions and cloning of PCR products, have been followed to obtain reliable sequences from the mtDNA hypervariable region 1 (HVR1), as well as some haplogroup diagnostic SNPs. Phylogeographic analyses show that the haplogroup composition of the ancient Iberians was very similar to that found in modern Iberian Peninsula populations, suggesting a long-term genetic continuity since pre-Roman times. Nonetheless, there is less genetic diversity in the ancient Iberians than is found among modern populations, a fact that could reflect the small population size at the origin of the population sampled, and the heterogenic tribal structure of the Iberian society. Moreover, the Iberians were not especially closely related to the Etruscans, which points to considerable genetic heterogeneity in Pre-Roman Western Europe.

The most frequent haplogroup is H (52.9%), followed by U (17.6%), J (11.8%), and pre-HV, K and T at the same frequency (5.9%). No samples were found to correspond to other haplogroups that are widely present in the Iberian peninsula populations (Table 7), such as V, X, I or W. The North African U6 subhaplogroup and Sub-Saharan African L lineages are also absent from the ancient Iberians analyzed so far; therefore, the possible entry of U6 lineages prior to the Muslim conquest in the 8th century A.D., as suggested by some authors, remains unproven. However, it is recognized that the sample size is at present too small to exclude any competing hypothesis about a possible North African genetic contribution to the genesis of the Iberian peninsula populations.


For the study, mitochondrial DNA was extracted from skeletal remains of individuals, some of them ritually executed. The most frequent haplogroups are:


H (52.9%)
U (17.6%)
J (11.8%)
pre-HV (5.9%)
K (5.9%)
T (5.9%)

It is shown that the composition of the ancient Iberian haplogroup is very similar to the current mainland population (although there is a lower genetic diversity in ancient remains.) However, no currently haplogroups found widely spread throughout the Iberian peninsula as V, X, I or W.


About the U6 found in Galicia.

Sequencing of 81 entire human mitochondrial DNAs (mtDNAs) belonging to haplogroups M1 and U6 reveals that these predominantly North African clades arose in southwestern Asia and moved together to Africa about 40,000 to 45,000 years ago. Their arrival temporally overlaps with the event that led to the peopling of Europe by modern humans and was most likely the result of the same change in climate conditions that allowed humans to enter the Levant, opening the way to the colonization of both Europe and North Africa. Thus, the early Upper Palaeolithic population carrying M1 and U6 did not return to Africa along the southern coastal route of the "out of Africa" exit, but from the Mediterranean area; and the North African Dabban and European Aurignacian industries derived from a common Levantine source.


Maciamo Seigneur, pourquoi la Belgique n'a pas inclus dans la comparaison? aurait �t� tellement int�ressant.
mtDNA U6 has been found also in France, in higher proportions than Spain.

Carlitos
25-12-10, 01:41
But the French U6 comes with beautiful Egyptian and U6 in Spain comes from the supposed Arab invasion, now the powerful countries of Europe with USA We will tell everyone what our origin as they care about, but I'm afraid that's not going to be so and will have to respect the truth.

Wilhelm
25-12-10, 04:32
But the French U6 comes with beautiful Egyptian and U6 in Spain comes from the supposed Arab invasion, now the powerful countries of Europe with USA We will tell everyone what our origin as they care about, but I'm afraid that's not going to be so and will have to respect the truth.
beautiful egyptian ? LOL what is that. It's mtDNA U6 found in France. The mtDNA U6 in Europe (Iberia inlcuded) is of Pleistocene origin, read the Pereira et al. 2010 study here (http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2148/10/390/abstract)

Maciamo
25-12-10, 10:10
If there is one thing to keep in mind about Iberian genetics, it is that there is no such thing as a "typical Iberian individual". Andalusians have nothing to do with the Basques, who in turn share very little with the Galicians, who cannot be compared to the people of Castilla-La Mancha. Perhaps the Portuguese, Galicians, Extremadurans and West Andalusians fit in a broader West Iberian category. Although Iberians are among the most direct descendants of Cro-Magnons in Europe (thanks to the Basques, Catalans and East Castillans), there is overwhelming evidence that Neolithic farmers from the Near East settled heavily in South-West Iberia, which explains not only why Neolithic cultures flourished in Andalusia and South Portugal several millennia before the North, seemingly springing out of nowhere, but also why South-West Iberians are so differenly from North-East Iberians in terms of paternal and maternal haplogroups, as well as autosomal DNA.

In Italy the genetic divergence between North and South is gradual. In Iberia there is a fairly sharp divide across the vast expanse of Castilla. If Near Easterners had not colonised southern Andalusia and Portugal, all Iberia would be genetically like the Basques (+ the later Indo-European admixture), even more so in South Portugal than near the Pyrenees. Unless of course the Mesolithic population of South-West Iberia was an extension of the Maghrebin one. That would explain where the E-M81 and mtDNA U6 and the traces of M1 and L come from, and how it spread to the far reaches of Galicia and Cantabria, where neither the Phoenicians nor the Arabs ever laid foot.

^ lynx ^
25-12-10, 13:30
But the French U6 comes with beautiful Egyptian and U6 in Spain comes from the supposed Arab invasion, now the powerful countries of Europe with USA We will tell everyone what our origin as they care about, but I'm afraid that's not going to be so and will have to respect the truth.

beautiful egyptian ? LOL what is that. It's mtDNA U6 found in France. The mtDNA U6 in Europe (Iberia inlcuded) is of Pleistocene origin, read the Pereira et al. 2010 study here (http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2148/10/390/abstract)

Wilhelm, seriously, stop feeding the troll.



Warm regards and happy christmas everyone.

Wilhelm
25-12-10, 17:18
If there is one thing to keep in mind about Iberian genetics, it is that there is no such thing as a "typical Iberian individual". Andalusians have nothing to do with the Basques, who in turn share very little with the Galicians, who cannot be compared to the people of Castilla-La Mancha. Perhaps the Portuguese, Galicians, Extremadurans and West Andalusians fit in a broader West Iberian category. Although Iberians are among the most direct descendants of Cro-Magnons in Europe (thanks to the Basques, Catalans and East Castillans), there is overwhelming evidence that Neolithic farmers from the Near East settled heavily in South-West Iberia, which explains not only why Neolithic cultures flourished in Andalusia and South Portugal several millennia before the North, seemingly springing out of nowhere, but also why South-West Iberians are so differenly from North-East Iberians in terms of paternal and maternal haplogroups, as well as autosomal DNA.

In Italy the genetic divergence between North and South is gradual. In Iberia there is a fairly sharp divide across the vast expanse of Castilla. If Near Easterners had not colonised southern Andalusia and Portugal, all Iberia would be genetically like the Basques (+ the later Indo-European admixture), even more so in South Portugal than near the Pyrenees. Unless of course the Mesolithic population of South-West Iberia was an extension of the Maghrebin one. That would explain where the E-M81 and mtDNA U6 and the traces of M1 and L come from, and how it spread to the far reaches of Galicia and Cantabria, where neither the Phoenicians nor the Arabs ever laid foot.
Well, the genetic differences among spaniards is not as pronounced is in Italy. For example, the Behar samples were taken from Andalusians and Catalans, and they cluster very tightly, contrary to italians :

http://oi52.tinypic.com/335gmd4.jpg



Also with the Gayán et al. study the spanairds are fairly homogeneus :

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_x6Y4ZgFsZdY/S_07tdszhII/AAAAAAAAATQ/8zH-_Sy5kb0/s1600/PCgraphEuro.png

Carlitos
18-03-11, 01:26
Maciamo
Andalusians have nothing to do with the Basques

With the Basques do not have to see almost anyone. Anyway contributions that are pouring here demonstrate that there is genetic homogeneity between the Spanish.

Wilhelm
24-03-11, 00:34
If there is one thing to keep in mind about Iberian genetics, it is that there is no such thing as a "typical Iberian individual". Andalusians have nothing to do with the Basques, who in turn share very little with the Galicians, who cannot be compared to the people of Castilla-La Mancha.
Absolutely disagree. The spaniards show the highest basque component of all europeans, after basques in all the autosomal analysis I've seen so far. Also, 13% of spaniards have a basque surname. See this example of the Eurogenes Project, the Basque component in Iberians, averaging 23%, highest after basques, and the spanish sample is taken from Behar et al. which includes Andalusians and catalans :

http://cid-5223cc821fdfeb45.office.live.com/view.aspx/23%20West%20Eurasia.xlsx


Although Iberians are among the most direct descendants of Cro-Magnons in Europe (thanks to the Basques, Catalans and East Castillans), there is overwhelming evidence that Neolithic farmers from the Near East settled heavily in South-West Iberia, which explains not only why Neolithic cultures flourished in Andalusia and South Portugal several millennia before the North, seemingly springing out of nowhere, but also why South-West Iberians are so differenly from North-East Iberians in terms of paternal and maternal haplogroups, as well as autosomal DNA. Disagree. Neolithic culture ? Yes. Genetic neolithic influence ? No. In terms of ausotomal dna the south-west iberians are not so different from north-east iberians as seen in the Behar et. al study where both Andalusians and Catalans make the sample of Spaniards, and they cluster together, you can also see this in the Gayán et al. study where andalusians, catalans and castillians cluster very tightly, in between the Tuscans and the White-Utahns. As for the neolithic influence, according to the study from Chikhi et al. the Andalusians have the most Paleolithic contribution after Sardinians :

http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/1232/paleolithic.png



In Italy the genetic divergence between North and South is gradual. In Iberia there is a fairly sharp divide across the vast expanse of Castilla. If Near Easterners had not colonised southern Andalusia and Portugal, all Iberia would be genetically like the Basques (+ the later Indo-European admixture), even more so in South Portugal than near the Pyrenees. In Iberia there are not such division, or are not as much pronounced as in Italy, as one can see in all the autosomal plots, where the catalans and andalusians cluster together, whereas the Italians are separated in 3 different clusters, as if they were different countries. And it is a completely wrong assumption to think Iberians would be like basques without neolithic influence. To start with, said neolithic influence is minimal, as mentioned above, but you can also see this in the Dodecad project with the West-Asian component, which the Spaniards and Portuguese have less than Germans or French, and second, the basques have never expanded in the rest of Iberia, they were just one of the many tribes of Iberia, not the only, it is not even evident that iberians were related with basques. Plus their main subclade of R1b is M153 vs the main R1b-S116* of the rest of iberians. Also, another key factor is the Celtic and Indo-european influence which has been much stronger in the rest of Iberia than in basques. Another thing to mention, is that Catalans are supposedly the most iberian-descended people, with little neolithic and Celtic, and they don't cluster with basques, and they have a high presence of the R1b-M167, which is clearly not related with basques.

Taranis
24-03-11, 00:56
I'd like to point out a major problem here, and that's a linguistic one: the usage of the word "Iberian". We today call the penninsula "Iberian", hence it's denizens would be "Iberians", too, however in Antiquity, the penninsula was refered to as "Hispania", and the ethnic group called "Iberians" only lived in the east and the south of the penninsula. Of course, this gets even more problematic since "Hispania" evolved to España (Spain), which is totay the name of the country which obviously doesn't cover the entire penninsula. The confusion is perfect. :satisfied:

Carlitos
24-03-11, 02:02
Hispania girds us to Roman times, iberia us back further in time, we feel more free when using Iberia speak of greater antiquity than Hispania. Spain is the present. though of course not reflected Portugal, the issue is that when a Spanish Iberia or Hispania think in his mind appears the map of the peninsula, in some cases even when they think of Spain and in general, is not political, it is sentimental, that is why these historical genetic issues or sometimes without thinking say Spain, but subconsciously we include Portugal, although we know that there are two independent countries.

Carlitos
24-03-11, 02:36
http://www.ideal.es/granada/noticias/200906/19/Media/granada/cabeza_1--253x250.JPG


Microgeographical PATTERNS OF MITOCHONDRIAL DNA IN THE SOUTH OF THE IBERIAN PENINSULA

Autor: LPEZ SOTO MANUEL
Universidad: SEVILLA
Centro de realizacin: INSTITUTO NACIONAL DE TOXICOLOGA. DPTO. SEVILLA
Centro de lectura: BIOLOGA
Director: SANZ NICOLS PILAR
Tribunal: CARRACEDO LVAREZ NGEL , MARN RODRGUEZ ANTONIO , GAMERO LUCAS JOAQUN , GODOY LPEZ JOS ANTONIO , GUTIRREZ POZO GABRIEL




Summary of the thesis
We performed a study of the variability of mitochondrial DNA in 419 unrelated individuals of the population still native. These individuals were divided into a total of 28 villages throughout the region of Andalusia which were selected based on the following criteria: 1 - Having older than 200 years. 2 - There have been population movements, ie a degree of privacy. 3, - have a population size between 4000-8000 estabale inhabitants. The main objectives of this thesis were: A, - Knowing the genetic-population structure in the south of the Iberian Peninsula. B - Check the mitochondrial substrate indigenous population still fits in the European mitochondrial variability. C, - evaluate the presence of mitochondrial lineages from northern and sub-Saharan Africa. D - To determine possible differences in the evolutionary origin between the peoples analyzed from the perspective of mitochondrial DNA. E, - get the mitochondrial DNA sequences in order to establish a database for forensic purposes. From the results of this study can conclude that the indigenous population still does not differ significantly from other European populations in the distribution of DNA haplogroups mitoconcrial. Also, as with the European population in the mitochondrial lineages there is a significant component Andalusian Paleolithic Neolithic remains low. The contributions of African lineages from delnorte were small despite the long Muslim presence in southern Peninsular and found a frequency of lineages in sub-Saharan origin. In Andalusia it was observed that mitochondrial variability is qualitatively and quantitatively similar in the different provinces of Andalusia. Therefore, the indigenous population still behaves like a very homogeneous all provinces evidence originated from the same substrate population.

Segia
24-03-11, 02:41
Hispania girds us to Roman times, iberia us back further in time, we feel more free when using Iberia speak of greater antiquity than Hispania. Spain is the present. though of course not reflected Portugal, the issue is that when a Spanish Iberia or Hispania think in his mind appears the map of the peninsula, in some cases even when they think of Spain and in general, is not political, it is sentimental, that is why these historical genetic issues or sometimes without thinking say Spain, but subconsciously we include Portugal, although we know that there are two independent countries.

Iberia comes from greek colonists, Hispania from phoenician ones. It was the roman adaptation of a phoencian name. Wich is older? I don't know, but phoenicians arrived here before greeks. In any case, both are exonyms and we don't know how natives called this piece of land.

Carlitos
24-03-11, 02:52
Hispania land of rabbits, I know, but there are many hypotheses, not convinced, I prefer to Iberia, I find it more poetic, evocative and free, I think from Hispania call begins for us a very difficult world.

PD: Speculations are mine, not to take it literally.

Knovas
16-05-11, 18:04
I'm reading the forum since two months aprox and decided to join a few days ago. As an Iberian, according to the post I am in the 5'9% (K) of the population.

U6 It's primarly Berber mtDNA. I find curious its higher presence in France, something simillar happens with Berber Y-DNA, wich I think could be found at low frequencies outside Iberia too.