The alleged Arab invasion of Spain.

Carlitos

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Perhaps ignoring the rest of Europe that many Spanish do not believe in the supposed Arab invasion of Spain, for this reason in this thread at least be able to see another side of the story as an antidote to the beast and interested more lie ever told on the part of our history.



"Facts do not cease to exist just because they are ignored. "
Thomas Henry Houxley.



THIS IS WHAT HISTORY TELLS U.S. OFFICIAL


711, 7,000 Arabs entered the command of TARIC rate, and another 18,000 shortly after entering the command of Musa, who was born in Mecca at that time is about seventy-one years old, 25,000 men in total.
We were told that in three years to conquer a territory of 584,192 square kilometers, inhabited by several million people organized in Visigothic monarchy and belonging, many of them, to the decadent Greco-Roman culture.
That is, in the period of three years, each of those 25,000 Arabs have to make the effort to win approximately 23 square kilometers and, last but not least, also part of France to conquer and convert all that vast territory to Islam. All in three years!. They alone, with his back exposed, without knowing the language and the support necessary to equip the troops invading exigua.

What the Roman legions failed in three hundred years of bloody conquest, with all its military and logistical support from the Gauls, they get 25,000 Arabs who came from as far uncultivated desert. And as they did tell us after crossing thousands of miles of North Africa, without knowing the horseshoe with which shoeing horses that do not have (the Arabian desert does not) and with bare backs.
We know that some historians agree with the official version, and thus continues to teach in our schools. But today is more difficult to defend this position in light of modern research, archaeological finds, and free of pressure from certain powers interested in maintaining it.
If today we can not deny what is apparently a historical fraud, the simple common sense and what we suggest.


A CRITICAL REFLECTION

That will be a constructive discussion of this approach, with a brief overview of the history and social and cultural situation of the Arabs in those years. As for a historical claim to be considered true, is to be founded on sound science, not fable.
The Arabian peninsula had, at that time, with a population of about a million or million and a half, made up of tribes locked in struggle with each other and with a very primitive tribal culture. During the first two centuries of expansion of Islam, as a strong idea, the vast majority of Arabs were illiterate. Hence the interest of the Prophet Muhammad * (Muhammad) to learn to read and write.
The year 640 Muhammad died, having spent part of his life to peace between the tribes, and convey an idea of God as-Sinaitic Abrahamic tradition, replacing the polytheistic paganism. Thus Allah was not a god, not even Zeus - Deus Greco-Roman design, but La-divinity, Allah.
Before his death he had repeatedly asked his followers to practice the search for wisdom, for in those days had not yet established an Arab culture, and after we met.
Muhammad happen the first Caliphs, due to tribal fighting for power are mostly killed, like his son Ali and his grandson Hussein, who was beheaded. In these culture conditions were not to offer, but a project done, the Islam, which at that time was not well known to many of those Arabs. Although it seems, at present, neither is well known for some "there" or by other "here."
The inhabitants of the Arabian Peninsula had no economy to equip large armies, nor enough people to train, and national unity to support them. In any case could have been responsible for small tribal raids, incursions or minor war once pacified themselves.


SAUDI

Except in some few areas of the coast was and is a barren desert whose main source of income at the time, were the trade and plunder of the caravans. The fertile Medina and Mecca, the desert located in the Yemen-Syria axis, were hubs for the passage of caravans. In the early seventh century were still bound trade route between East and West.
However, despite these challenges difficult to overcome, the official history tells us that those few and uneducated Arabs, warring among themselves, they had conquered Syria in 635, the Ctesiphon in 637, Palestine in 639, and 639 Mesopotamia at 641.
In the middle of the conquest of Mesopotamia, from 640 to 643 dominate Iran, Alexandria, 642, and then Egypt. And from Alexandria Tunisia conquer all, 3,000 kmts, distance, between the years 647 to 701.
Between gesture and deed conquer Tripoli 647, at 649 Cyprus, the 664 is going to India to conquer the Punjab. In 670 cross the Libyan desert to conquer the North African desertification full press climate. From 705 to 7l5 again retake the conquest of India, to clinch the Indus Valley to its mouth. Realising a hurry because the 711 had an appointment with our Hispanic history in the battle of Guadalete to win in three years, 584,192 square kilometers of the Iberian Peninsula, southern France and turn us all to Islam. In the 720 come to Narbonne in the 725 conquer Autun. Finally in 732 Charles Martel stops them. Frankly, unbelievable!
Recall that Muhammad dies 640, and if he has devoted his life to pacify the tribes, without achieving the desired stability, either before or immediately after death can engage the Arabs in conquering such extensive territories. Since, as mentioned, nor the tribes were pacified, and the Arabian Peninsula was finally established in a State, nor Islam was definitely settled, nor had the people or the means to perform such a feat.
But we face another difficulty. According to the historian Theophanes, the low Arab fleet was massacred in front of Constantinople in 678, because of a new weapon used by the Byzantines, "Greek fire", a Syrian invention called Callinicos. As Mu'awiya b. Abu Sufian, founder of the Umayyad dynasty, who died on 680, and after the murder of Caliph Ali, son of Muhammad, was forced to pay tribute to Byzantium.


In 711

Arab naval power was very low, was commercial and in any case prepared for defensive or very small raids. As we said did not know the shoe, or the desert can support large herds of horses, which are incompatible with the camels. They did not speak the languages of these countries "conquered", did not have enough military or territorial cohesion, and supply facilities for the troops. But ... carried out the conquest of territory so vast, and without sufficient knowledge or culture, the conversion to the new religion in less than a century and in charge of a few ignorant Bedouin quarreling with each other?. Does this make any sense?.
Common sense tells us there is no chance, unless there are new reliable reviews, or to resort to miracle-tale or, as seems to be that it happened, to explain something that could have developed differently.
Certainly, Spain has been Muslim majority or a large part, as a nation-Andalus, for centuries, and the Arabic language was integrated into our culture, as it did centuries before Latin. But this will not change the previous diversity of our ethnic group, or due to the invasion of another people. Could be due, as before, the acceptance of an innovative idea by the Hispanic population, whose religion in some regions, Arian Unitarian Christianity, became the vehicle for change.


A NATURAL AND LOGICAL POSSIBILITY

Does exist for the transformation of the territories Islamized in the world. And is that these countries were won over to the new idea by the intervention of well-trained preachers merchants. It is clear from the history of early Islam by reading the biography of Muhammad, we note that did send messengers to different parts of the world then known, and in this issue are all critics agree. So this is what could happen in our land.
Here are some examples.
We know from recent history, in the XV and XVI, Islam spreads to Indonesia by traders preachers, not military action.
In modern times also introduced into the Pacific islands to be those under colonial rule of Portuguese and Dutch. And it introduces sub-Saharan Africa during the colonial period in England, France and Portugal, while the Europeans only to realize the event.
If the recent past has happened that Islam did not need to be imposed by force but by the study and knowledge of its enactment, is not it likely that it could also happen in the distant past in our land?






 
It's too bad that you post this just after the Dodecad Project identified 4.5% of Arabic (Southwest Asian) autosomal DNA in Portugal and 3.3% in Spain. It is likely that some of of the North African DNA in Iberia also entered the peninsula during that time. If 5% of the DNA in the Iberians dated from the Muslim conquest this would be perfectly concordant with a typical long-term conquest (with a flow of people to and fro from other parts of te Muslim world for nearly 800 years), as oppose to a mass migration.
 
Sure!, were on high speed train AVE. These figures are ridiculous if it was an invasion and subsequent stay for 800 years the percentages would be different and differently.

Clearly, the chronicles of the Arab invasion alleged were written about 200 years later, and commissioned by Arabs, who could boast to have invaded that part of Europe and yet the Christians accepted the chronicles because that way they had to recognize that Christianity had failed in a part of Spain, so it was easier for everyone to believe the Arab invasion, a lie bigger than a temple.

I do not inspire confidence that the company quoted dodecad project, do not ask me why, but I think there really malicious interests behind.
 
The formation of the Myth

The myth begins to take shape several centuries after the supposed invasion and is based on Arabic and Latin manuscripts, which have fantastic fables and echos founded on religious grounds to explain the successes or failures in the military contest.

Arabic Manuscripts

Written several centuries after the events, are adaptations of Egyptian fables which have fantastic adventures of Berber leaders. The similarity between each other, makes us think about plagiarism. The same story of the invasion of Arabs in Egypt moved to the mainland, only changing places and people and incurring numerous contradictions and historical errors, which shows that their objective was not the historical account from a scientific standpoint and impartial But serve the interests of the rulers of the time extolling their exploits and prowess, of themselves and their dynasty, thereby enhancing his reign. This is confirmed by Eduardo Saavedra when he says: "The chronicles are filled with hyperbole, contradictions and anachronisms, but if for such we had to close the door to study a time lock with contempt as they tell us about the old, come to be empty many of the most important pages of world history. "Veiled, Saavedra shows us the way to quarantine the entire world history for not being based on reliable sources, but interest in myths created after the foundation of nation-states in Europe and to justify them.
 
It's too bad that you post this just after the Dodecad Project identified 4.5% of Arabic (Southwest Asian) autosomal DNA in Portugal and 3.3% in Spain. It is likely that some of of the North African DNA in Iberia also entered the peninsula during that time. If 5% of the DNA in the Iberians dated from the Muslim conquest this would be perfectly concordant with a typical long-term conquest (with a flow of people to and fro from other parts of te Muslim world for nearly 800 years), as oppose to a mass migration.
North Italians have more Arabic than Spaniards and they had no muslim invasion. And the north-african is not 5% but 2% in Spaniards. Don't mix everything.
 
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The Dodecad Project only has 6 native Portuguese participants. Hardly enough to make any conclusions on percentages. I'm not certain of the number of Spanish samples.
 
Hmm.. The original poster Carlitos posted a text that has so many flaws it it that I can't take it serious.

Ihe invasion by Taric wasn't done by Arabs in the first place. Most of the soldiers came from the North African region. So they could have many backgrounds. Goth, Roman, Phoenician, Berber, whatever.

The second important point was the population of Spain was for a part also Gothic, and they preferred another form of Christianity than the Roman Catholic church wanted.
The Arianism was in fact close to the Islam idea that Jesus was a prophet, and not a God. So this explains why an "Invasion" from the south into Spain could become a success. The population of Spain in those days saw them as liberators.

Learn your own history a bit better, and don't spread ultra nationalist propaganda.
You can start with the movie.. "El Cid" Although it's just a movie, it is rather neutral.

It was only later on, that the Spaniards started to call Santiago (Saint Jacob) the "killer of the blacks".
This strange title is the literal translation of the Spanish "matamoros".
So in fact a racist title.

When the Roman Catholics with the help of the norhern kingdoms overrun the south, then a bloody repression started against all who were not Catholic.
 
The Arab invasion of Spain is a myth created in the Middle Ages.


The "Reconquista" was an ideology invented by Hispanic Christians shortly after 711, the year in which begins the "alleged invasion by the Arabs" and their effective implementation was to be maintained since then as a historiographical tradition, also becoming the subject of nostalgia and a rhetorical clich? national advertisers Catholics.

About how it was actually the Islamization of Spain, more or less reflected in my previous post. Visigothic origin population did not reach the hundred thousand inhabitants, while the Hispano-Romans were more than nine million. However, they are the Visigoths who have the power under his scepter. It should be noted that the Roman Empire had ended, at least officially, in 476, although the invading Goths and Hispano-Roman local population kept their social structures. The alleged Arab invasion came in 711, ie, just 235 years later. Those 235 years were years of continuous civil wars and clashes between them Visigoths by plots of power, so there were many famines in that time. Moreover, the Visigoths were Arians, a Christian group that rejected the idea of the Trinity (God is three in one: Father, Son and Holy Spirit), and the Hispano-Romans and Visigoths then some yes to the amendment. Between these two sides fight focused on the Iberian Peninsula. The first, the Arians called in to help the fledgling Islamic force that had already been established in northern Africa, as they had common religious ideas, notably the unitary idea of God. After years of conflict, the Muslim-Arian side triumphed over the Trinity, and from there, the Islamization of the Iberian Peninsula was a fact.
 
The Arab invasion of Spain is a myth created in the Middle Ages.


The "Reconquista" was an ideology invented by Hispanic Christians shortly after 711, the year in which begins the "alleged invasion by the Arabs" and their effective implementation was to be maintained since then as a historiographical tradition, also becoming the subject of nostalgia and a rhetorical clich� national advertisers Catholics.

About how it was actually the Islamization of Spain, more or less reflected in my previous post. Visigothic origin population did not reach the hundred thousand inhabitants, while the Hispano-Romans were more than nine million. However, they are the Visigoths who have the power under his scepter. It should be noted that the Roman Empire had ended, at least officially, in 476, although the invading Goths and Hispano-Roman local population kept their social structures. The alleged Arab invasion came in 711, ie, just 235 years later. Those 235 years were years of continuous civil wars and clashes between them Visigoths by plots of power, so there were many famines in that time. Moreover, the Visigoths were Arians, a Christian group that rejected the idea of the Trinity (God is three in one: Father, Son and Holy Spirit), and the Hispano-Romans and Visigoths then some yes to the amendment. Between these two sides fight focused on the Iberian Peninsula. The first, the Arians called in to help the fledgling Islamic force that had already been established in northern Africa, as they had common religious ideas, notably the unitary idea of God. After years of conflict, the Muslim-Arian side triumphed over the Trinity, and from there, the Islamization of the Iberian Peninsula was a fact.

Germanics (Visigoths, Suevi, Vandals, Asding Vandals) likely totaled > 325 thousand in Iberia.
 
Yes, the Arab (most properyl Berber) invasion has been overexagerated. They were always a minority, it was more of a military occupation, a religious rule, not a demographical one. The same can be said of Romans : They were also a minortiy despite their dominance and rule. And today with autosomal dna we know that genetically the north-african influence has been minimal (2-3 % maximum) in Spain but mostly confined in the south. In the half north of Spain is virtually 0%
 
I suspect that as autosomal studies become more refined many racial / genetic myths will be shattered.
 
Yes, the Arab (most properyl Berber) invasion has been overexagerated. They were always a minority, it was more of a military occupation, a religious rule, not a demographical one. The same can be said of Romans : They were also a minortiy despite their dominance and rule. And today with autosomal dna we know that genetically the north-african influence has been minimal (2-3 % maximum) in Spain but mostly confined in the south. In the half north of Spain is virtually 0%

The number of true Arabs in Spain and Portugal was always extremely low.
 
Germanics (Visigoths, Suevi, Vandals, Asding Vandals) likely totaled > 325 thousand in Iberia.

That's why we talk of Germanic migrations (whole tribes), but of the Arab conquest (just an army, then some government officials and some merchants).
 
Yes, the Arab (most properyl Berber) invasion has been overexagerated. They were always a minority, it was more of a military occupation, a religious rule, not a demographical one. The same can be said of Romans : They were also a minortiy despite their dominance and rule. And today with autosomal dna we know that genetically the north-african influence has been minimal (2-3 % maximum) in Spain but mostly confined in the south. In the half north of Spain is virtually 0%

Rather than exaggerating the supposed Arab invasion, they've invented.
 
average North African Moroccan Berbers have frequencies of E3b3 in the +80%. Alvarez et al(2009) study shows a frequency of E3b1b of 28/33 or 84.8% in Berbers from Amizmiz Valley Marrakesh. With the rest of the frequencies being 1/33 or 3% E3a*, 1/33 or 3% E3b*, 1/33 or 3% E3b1a, and 1/33 or 3% E3b1c

Total E-M35 frequencies peak at 93.8% in Moroccans Marrakesh
and around 5.3% in Andalusians spaniards Northwest Cordoba

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ajhb.20888/abstract

Alvarezetal2009table-1.jpg


Population of Pedroches Valley, a hypothetical Berber settlement, located in the northwest portion of C?rdoba province (Andalusia, Spain), had been analyzed for its Y-chromosome diversity. Moreover, to contextualize this population, 127 Y-chromosomes from a general Andalusia sample and a North African Berber community (Marrakech, Morocco) were also typed. For all samples, 24 single nucleotide polymorphisms of the non-recombining portion of the Y-chromosome (NRY) were analyzed and those samples described as belonging to E3b1b-M81 haplogroup were also typed for 16 Y-chromosome short tandem repeats. Our Analysis showed low levels of North African E3b1b-M81 haplogroup in the Pedroches Valley population (1.5%), which is a lower contribution than would be expected. This result rejects the hypothesis of a gradual genetic assimilation of Berber settlers during the Islamic period. Am. J. Hum. Biol., 2009. ? 2009 Wiley-Liss, Inc.
 
Carlitos.. Your posting is BS.

We all know the Romans were in the south of The Netherlands for quite a while, and their yDNA also is only a marginal part of the total population over here.
The point is, soldiers use to die in battle. They are not the type that raise a family.
And don't forget, soldiers were able to rape women or men, and get venereal diseases and so had a shortened life, and probably also impotence.
 
People should not make too much of haplogroup frequencies, unless percentages are very high. Haplogroups are useful in explaining the genetic contributions of ancient migrations to particular population groups, but they do not necessarily reflect ancestry accurately. Only autosomal (full ancestry) DNA can provide a true ancestral picture.
 
average North African Moroccan Berbers have frequencies of E3b3 in the +80%. Alvarez et al(2009) study shows a frequency of E3b1b of 28/33 or 84.8% in Berbers from Amizmiz Valley Marrakesh. With the rest of the frequencies being 1/33 or 3% E3a*, 1/33 or 3% E3b*, 1/33 or 3% E3b1a, and 1/33 or 3% E3b1c

Total E-M35 frequencies peak at 93.8% in Moroccans Marrakesh
and around 5.3% in Andalusians spaniards Northwest Cordoba

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ajhb.20888/abstract

Alvarezetal2009table-1.jpg


Population of Pedroches Valley, a hypothetical Berber settlement, located in the northwest portion of C�rdoba province (Andalusia, Spain), had been analyzed for its Y-chromosome diversity. Moreover, to contextualize this population, 127 Y-chromosomes from a general Andalusia sample and a North African Berber community (Marrakech, Morocco) were also typed. For all samples, 24 single nucleotide polymorphisms of the non-recombining portion of the Y-chromosome (NRY) were analyzed and those samples described as belonging to E3b1b-M81 haplogroup were also typed for 16 Y-chromosome short tandem repeats. Our Analysis showed low levels of North African E3b1b-M81 haplogroup in the Pedroches Valley population (1.5%), which is a lower contribution than would be expected. This result rejects the hypothesis of a gradual genetic assimilation of Berber settlers during the Islamic period. Am. J. Hum. Biol., 2009. � 2009 Wiley-Liss, Inc.
Yes, but this is only haplogroups, it doesn't mean admixture. You can be E-M81 and have less north-african admixture than a person with R1b
 
^^

Yes, of course, relates the story of the Arab invasion rather than Orientalization from Spain and now is that all genes of the Arab invaders are hiding in the R.

Immigration in Spain currently accounts for 12% of the population, people of all nationalities in the world, let's see if within 800 years, these haplogroups have been able to hide as well as have those of the Arabs who once conquered us.
 
^^

Yes, of course, relates the story of the Arab invasion rather than Orientalization from Spain and now is that all genes of the Arab invaders are hiding in the R.

Immigration in Spain currently accounts for 12% of the population, people of all nationalities in the world, let's see if within 800 years, these haplogroups have been able to hide as well as have those of the Arabs who once conquered us.
hmmmm...lol what ?? :unsure:
 

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