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DejaVu
25-01-11, 00:26
Who were and are the Bulgarians and their DNA?
No political discussions, please follow the rules of the forum.

DejaVu
27-01-11, 00:28
http://www.eupedia.com/europe/european_y-dna_haplogroups_by_region.shtml

Y-DNA - Bulgaria
I1 3%
I2a 20%
I2b 1%
R1a 18%
R1b 18%
G2a 1%
J2 20%
E1b1b 16%
T 1%
Q 1%

LeBrok
27-01-11, 03:46
Wow, nicely mixed. 5 haplogroups at almost 1/5th each.

how yes no 2
27-01-11, 21:30
Wow, nicely mixed. 5 haplogroups at almost 1/5th each.

downside is that we have no clue what were the haplogroups in proto-Bulgars...
according to what I remember from history they are supposed to have been somewhat akin to Avars and even Huns... but there is only 1% of Q and no haplogroup looks displaced as they all look as nice transition to surroundings... perhaps R1b is stronger than expected by surroundings... but I do think Thracians were R1b + E-V13...and probably also J2b.... Slavic people who settled before proto-Bulgarians and whose language was accepted by proto-Bulgarians, are R1a+I2a2, so proto-Bulgarians can be any combination of the 5 haplogroups...

how yes no 2
17-02-11, 01:05
J2 is much higher than expected...

part of it is no doubt due to Greek colonies on Black sea, but the rest might be about proto-Bulgars as they were related to Avars and Avars who live in Caucasus are 71% haplogroup J

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-DNA_haplogroups_by_ethnic_groups

R1b is also somewhat higher than expected...
part of it could have came with Roman empire..
as e.g. Vlachs (minority speaking latin derived languages) in Balkan are often having more R1b than surrounding...
also part of it might be related to Celtic invasion of Balkan from 2nd-3rd century BC...

R1a might partly be about Thracians and ancient Macedonians... Thracians spoke language closer to Balts than to Slavs... Balts have lot of R1a but not much I2a2... Thracians were perhaps R1a with some E and I2a2 and I2b...

early Slavs who settled Bulgaria would be domiantly I2a2 with some R1a... same is constitution of Paionians, Pannoni, Scordisci, Illyrians... I do expect that Illyrians had some J2 and E as well... Dardanians were E people with some J and R1a...as in Asia minor part from where they came to Balkan also has lot of E and J and even some R1a and I2a2...their R1a would be also due to ancient Macedonians and Thracians... which would explain why in FYRM Albanians and Slavic Macedonians have roughly same R1a...
Scordisci would have I1 in addition to I2a2...

LeBrok
17-02-11, 03:09
lol, yeh, one big mixing pot. I'm anxiously awaiting ancient bones DNA tests to settle the guessing game.

iapetoc
17-02-11, 05:14
how yes no I agree with you about J and E, but from history we know that Bulgaria in the Greek roman and byzantine Thracia,
then the R1a as other south slavic is not dominant to these people but I2a

cause by the analysis we have thracians of ancienty R1a
then slavic at 500 AD turn lingua to slavic means more R1a in sum of older,

18% is it enough to a old dominant plus the sum of a second period dominant??????

would R1a old plus new ivasion R1a only 18%, hmmmmmmm

Bodin
21-08-11, 05:16
I1 and I2b-4% is from Visigoths that settled Thracia at end of IV century and begining of V ( 375 escape from Huns - 410 departure to Italy ) .
I2a2 -20% and I know most of you wouldnt agreed - mostly Sarmatian , there is lot of evidence that before they enter Hunic tribal union Bulgarians were Sarmatian tribe.
R1a -18%some of it Thracian , some Slavic origin - Severci and 6 other tribes that inhabited Bulgaria , some Hunic -Asian R1a.
R1b-18% some of it Thracian from Asia Minor where they came from , some Celtic .
G-1% suprisingly low level , compared to neighbors , Neolithic
J2-20% mostly Trachean - from Asia Minor small percent Greek - Black sea coast some Hunic from Khorazm.
E1b1b1-16% some Thracian , some Illyrian - great resettling of tribes 9 AD
T1-1% Indian and Persian traders in Roman empire
Q -1%some Hunic , some Meditheranean
I have find simillar datas only G is 4,2% , R1a is 15% and R1b is 17%

Shetop
27-09-11, 15:29
pdf: Y-CHROMOSOMAL HAPLOGROUPS IN BULGARIANS (http://www.proceedings.bas.bg/PDF0/9_03-16b.pdf)

Bodin
27-09-11, 17:59
Very god thread , they are basicaly agree with my theories

Shetop
27-09-11, 18:58
Very god thread , they are basicaly agree with my theories

They are basing their theory on this ridiculous statement:

Because this haplogroup (I) covers the Iranian Plato up to region of Punjab, we hypothesize...

Bodin
27-09-11, 21:13
They are basing their theory on this ridiculous statement:
Maybe there are some mistakes, after all this is realy old work - in that time they believed G in Caucasus was I , but there is a lot of truth .

Eldritch
13-06-13, 22:12
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-6Bq0iUu8AQQ/UTgY4Q0tIdI/AAAAAAAAIr0/tavv7l6X0ek/s1600/journal.pone.0056779.g002.png

Ike
26-06-13, 20:11
Are we able to do DNA tests on corpses millennium or more old?
Maybe that could give us some clues about the population of those times?

TomAC
09-07-13, 03:36
Some ended up in Great Britain, presumably as Roman Soldiers from Thrace

TomAC
09-07-13, 03:37
Interesting chart