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spongetaro
29-01-11, 20:21
I knew Northern Italia and Portugal (Lusitani) were considered Celtic by the Romans. What about Iberia (East coast of Spain)?

Carlitos
06-02-11, 17:07
According to the oldest documentary sources, the "Ora Maritima " of Avieno, and Herodotus, already in the s. VI BC, as some in the Stelae anthroponyms Southwest seem to confirm. For the Iberian Peninsula comes another problem: the meaning and difference between Celtic and Celtíberos. Well, Celtic, Greek and Celtici Keltoi in Latin, which probably earliest use was to distinguish the Celtic peoples who were not, while Celtiberian, Celtiberia both Romans and Greeks, the Celts seem to differentiate Hispanics be a restrictive term, referring only to those who lived in the highlands between the Iberian and the Plateau, which clashed with Rome more crudely. The key lies in the identification and differentiation archeological Celtic peoples so, to find its origin, evolution and personality.


http://www.arteguias.com/imagenes/torosguisando.jpg





The Iberian Peninsula suffered a double process of influence during the first millennium BC, first, a Mediterranean influence, while the other, a process Celtización affected the central and western areas mainly. The culture of "urnfield", which had been identified with the Celts until now, has been delimited in the north, therefore, the thesis "invasion" is faced with the difficulty that this area does not match the area geographical and language of the Celts, as well as they were speaking the Iberian companies, as seems to indicate the epigraphy and historical references.

According to current research, from the Bronze Age, the interior of the Peninsula live in Cogotas I call culture, mixed economy of agriculture and cattle transhumance ovicápridos and local, which from the second millennium BC has been absorbing influences from the Atlantic Bronze. By the s. IX a. C. Tartessian world materials appear as elbow fibulae, swords, ceramics, geometric decorations and other influences, more mild, "urnfield" as a result of border areas. This substrate may be related to Indo-European linguistic elements, called pre-or Proto, preserved in place names, and anthroponyms ethnonyms as the initial P retains the Lusitano, the celtibérica different language, posterior tongue, or ideological elements such as rite of exposing the bodies of the warriors to the vultures between Celts and vacceos, tradition prior to incineration rite "urnfield, as seen in some ceramics and as indicated Silica Numantian Italic and Aelian. This substrate can also be observed maintenance of worship fisiolátricos related rocks, such as sanctuaries Ulaca, das Cabeço Smithies, Lamas Moledo ..., with the waters as evidenced by the offerings of the Late Bronze Age weapons, with which sacred forests seen in place names that keep Nemet-or very archaic deities without human form that start with Bandu-Navia-o Reve, which are a component Indo-European.


http://iris.cnice.mec.es/kairos/ensenanzas/bachillerato/espana/img/f_berracocelta.jpg
Celtic sculpture is represented mainly by the boars, animal figures that resemble bulls, cattle guards. Are characteristic of this animal sculptures Guisando Bulls (Avila).


This substrate Proto remained in the west and north, but also occurs among people of the interior, as Carpetanos, Vacceos and Vettones, Lusitano and Galaicos in the west, and probably as saturated, Cantabria, Berones, Turmogos and Pelendoses. Substrate would be fragmented and absorbed by the expansion of culture from s. celtibérica VI BCE hypothesis that can explain the similar cultural, linguistic and ideological education of all peninsular Celtic populations, and also serves to differentiate the Celts of the Celts.

The explanations are twofold. One, the "invasion" traditional, reflecting the arrival of humans who bring culture is formed, which has been impossible to document, not knowing what their place of origin, and above all, means of arrival. The other, not excluding movements of people, especially the elite warriors, is a complex formation of acculturation and development that gives the Celtic origin of the various components.


http://api.ning.com/files/-OKEgbqMoSzYT58q9IAXX5l9Jg5MG-ZRuoaeNNqPLbi*mc6*MukncWiwzTeLju-QP5JyXHG7bgzTfo9hIYemY-tE67KuRAyf/verracovillasviejastamug.jpg



Fortified settlements, and later explain the hierarchy Oppido territory that emerges in relation to the seasonal migration of livestock to avoid the summer drought of the plateau (known as August) and winter hardness of the mountains. This type of economy would produce a social hierarchy headed by the warrior class would, as suggested by further historical sources.

The rite of cremation urn, can be explained by influences of "urnfield", as in the Celtíberos or Vettones. The construction of mounds as Pajaroncillo, or lined trails may be due to ethnic differences, chronological and social. The brooches, ornaments, swords antennas, documenting the use of iron from the early stages of introduction from the colonial world (Phoenicians and Greeks), showing multidirectional influences, both as traspirenaicas Mediterranean, making it impossible to think of a single pathway arrival or a common origin. Be regarded as objects of prestige of the elite warriors, whose major development would be helped by trade with the Mediterranean colonial world, and the organization of pastoral and warlike interior. It is therefore understandable that the number of these objects in the regalia as a minority and there are local variations, due to its exchange and dissemination of local handicraft imitation.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f9/Falcata_%C3%ADbera_%28M.A.N._Madrid%29_01.jpg/750px-Falcata_%C3%ADbera_%28M.A.N._Madrid%29_01.jpg
Falcata: In Hispania also used a sword which is also unknown origin


This hierarchical organization and war, coupled with the introduction of iron rich product and developed rapidly, explains the formation of the feature Celtibérica Culture and its tendency to expand resulting in a process of "Celtización" from other populations, and clashed with the Romans. The process of "Celtización" explains the appearance of archaeological features, linguistic, socioeconomic and attributable to common Celtíberos: Celtiberian as weapons in the necropolis of horse brooches, place names in-briga, anthroponyms and place names in Seg-; anthroponyms "celtius" or "ambatus" suprafamiliares organizations that are reflected in the genitive plural, hospitality agreements, including a common religious element, as Lug.

This indicates the existence of a nuclear area in the highlands of the Iberian and the Eastern Plateau, the Celtiberia, from where the celtización seems to have spread to western lands, very permeable because it is a pastoral area of environment and substrate sociocultural. This process is after the formation of the necropolis Celtiberian from s. VII a. C., for example, culture is Vettones Las Cogotas "celtiza" from s. V a. C., appearing later in Extremadura, southern Portugal and Andalusia, as well as the Upper Ebro Valley and the Northwest.

It is a batch process and is only interrupted by the arrival in Rome. This expansion of documents Pliny (3, 13) to say that celtici of Andalusia came from Celtíberos of Lusitania. Similarly, the Lusitania anthroponym Celtius in ethnic epithet is explained as Celtic in areas not originally from the West. This "celtización" later confirmed by the place names in-briga trained in Roman times: Iuliobriga, Augustóbriga ...

To understand the Celts of the Iberian Peninsula should be borne in mind that were permeable to the influences of its neighbors, especially in material culture. Contact with the Iberians involved the assimilation of Mediterranean elements, reflected in the concept of material differentiation Celtiberian and other Celtic cultures, but keep language and socio-ideological organization of elite warriors. These elites "celtizadas" were widespread in the West, appearing as Vettones peoples, Lusitano, and Galaicos Astures, and even put the Iberians have reached, as the relief of Osuna and Liriano take Celtic-style weapons. The mercenary cause movements of people, which could well determine control of a city by Celtic elites, and this presence may explain the presence of fibulae of La Tene in Sierra Morena.

This process would not be timely, but long and intermittent in time with a significant "celtización" gradual, ie, differentiated by area and time, giving us a complex picture that allows us to understand the lack of uniformity of celtización Iberian Peninsula.


http://www.arteguias.com/imagenes3/artecelta1.jpg



bibliography



• Almagro-Gorbea, M. (1991): Los Celtas en la Península Ibérica. En García Castro, J. A. Los Celtas en la Península Ibérica. Revista de Arqueología, número monográfico. Páginas: 12-17.


• Almagro-Gorbea, M. (1993): Los Celtas en la Península Ibérica: origen y personalidad cultural. En Almagro-Gorbea, M. y Ruiz Zapatero, G (Eds.): Los Celtas: Hispania y Europa. Editorial Actas. Madrid. Páginas: 121-173.

Wilhelm
06-02-11, 17:46
I knew Northern Italia and Portugal (Lusitani) were considered Celtic by the Romans. What about Iberia (East coast of Spain)?
The white area are considered Celts :

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b5/Iberia_300BC.svg/727px-Iberia_300BC.svg.png

Carlitos
06-02-11, 17:55
The Beturia was a territory of the Iberian Peninsula between the lower courses of the rivers Guadiana, Guadalquivir Latin Ana-and-Latin-Baetis, which from the Iron Age II was inhabited by two peoples of different origins, West's Celtici (Celtic), Indo-Europeans, and East's Turduli (Turduli), relatives of the Turdetani. The territory was annexed by Rome in the early second century C., and included in the province Hispania Ulterior. With the new provincial division carried out by Emperor Augustus in 27 a. C., the entire Beturia joined the senatorial province of Andalusia, though with different dependence monastery: the monastery belonged to the Celtic legal Hispalis Túrdulos came under the dependence of Corduba.

As proposed by Alicia M. Canto in 1991, completed in 1995 and 1997, the division of territory between the two peoples was due to mining operations in which several experts were respectively: the Celts in the Iron and Túrdulos in silver and lead.

In muslim times both territories still remained a distinct, the Celts survived in the kura of Firrís, and Túrdulos in the Fahs al-Ballut. [citation needed]

Currently comprise part of the province of Huelva while the Association of Municipalities Beturia recalls that first name.


http://www.celtiberia.net/imagftp/im195394800-Baeturia%20C%C3%A9ltica%20ERBC%205_recursos%20mine ros%20reduc.jpg

Segia
06-02-11, 18:39
The problem with ancient texts is that sometimes geography and ethnicity are confused, overlapped. Iberia had both senses, the first included the whole territory and the second the peoples of iberian ethnos; but usually the term was used to desigante all the inhabitants...

Aquitanians are also included among gauls or/and inhabitants of Gaul, despite the fact that they weren't celtic speakers. They were the ancient euskaldunak (basque speakers)

Carlitos
06-02-11, 19:31
We know the indigenous pre-Roman goddess Adaegina thanks to the numerous altars with Latin inscriptions published in the former territory of Hispania Ulterior, and more specifically, between the Tagus and Guadiana. One of the main characteristics are his epithets Adaegina "Domina Dea Sancta Turibrigensis", which indicates that it is a protective deity of the pre-Roman city
Celtic Beturia Turíbriga call or Turóbriga, recently located in the vicinity of the hermitage of San Mames, near Aroche, Huelva province, which has a fountain, water supply, several spas and pools extraordinary excavation phase.

http://www.celtiberia.net/imagftp/im102937751-deposito.JPG
Turóbriga Roman font (Aroche, Huelva). Near the fountain, which were down a sloping gallery, there remains a reservoir.

One of the most important remains appeared in the Llanos de San Mames de Aroche is a lead pipe for water pipe inscribed with a trident and registration MTF which corresponds to M (unicipii) T (urobrigensis) f (istula aquaria).

http://www.celtiberia.net/imagftp/im1018707975-Santa-Luc%EDa.jpg
Granite altars (sake) dedicated to Dea Sancta Ataecina Turibrigense, taken during the latest excavations in the vicinity of the Visigoth chapel of Santa Lucia del Trampal of Alcuéscar (Cáceres).


Adaegina was both a mother goddess of death and regeneration, rebirth or return to life, earthy goddess connected with the underworld or hell, whose healing powers and fertility may be manifested through the water underground sources or specific sources of deep origin. In short, a protective deity or nymph of mineral water, dispensers of health and human fertility.

http://www.celtiberia.net/imagftp/im1006669893-Cabrita-de-Torrejoncillo.jpg
Goat gold-plated bronze, with gusset between the front legs to record the dedication to the Celtic goddess Ataecina.
Found by the stream of El Encino (Torrejoncillo). Archaeological Museum of Caceres.


The cult may Adaegina altars was made in the interest located in the vicinity of these upwelling waters were regarded as having special virtues, although his main sanctuary was at the distant city of Turóbriga Betis.
In Extremadura, a region with large Celtic influences, there are several places where it's clear this relationship between divinity Turóbriga with spring water from certain sources that have been attributed since certain healing properties or fertility.

http://www.celtiberia.net/imagftp/im561878108-Cabra-de-Malpartida-2.jpg
Greatly expanded reproduction of one of the two bronze goats found in Malpartida and converted into identifying symbol for this stock Caceres. (votive offering to the Goddess Adaegina)


The first place where we have found the greatest number (about fifty) of dedications to the Celtic goddess, is on the walls, floors and immediate surroundings of the Visigoth chapel of Santa Lucia del Trampal, near the town of Caceres Alcuéscar obviously raised in the same place of an ancient shrine dedicated to Dea Sancta Adaegina.

In "The Trampal" (place name related to water) have found the following variations in the inscriptions autographs

Adaeginais one of of the best -knownindigenousdeities of the pantheon celtohispano , whosecult was manifested especially in Extremadura , where today we know a large number of indigenous interests votive dedicated by this goddess with the same or similar functions as the Greek Persephone , the underground goddess and wife of the god of the underworld Pluto, or the Latin Proserpina, the goddess of the underworld, and indeed with many inscriptions it appears as Adaegina syncretized-Proserpina, as shown in the published in the Albuhera of Carijós (Merida), reservoir since called Proserpina Reservoir and storing the waters of some springs called his glass surface in

Regulus
06-02-11, 23:26
The "Falcata" above appears very close to the xiphos swords of classical Greece.

Carlitos
06-02-11, 23:32
The "Falcata" above appears very close to the xiphos swords of classical Greece.

The ancient authors describe the Iberian warriors dressed in short white robes trimmed in purple and Iberian falcata in hand. Probably the dress were not "white", but the natural color of wool, as occurs with the Roman togas, and probably the purple of the borders was not so, but a strip of scarlet

http://www.aceros-de-hispania.com/imagen/falcatas-iberas/falcata-ibera.jpeg
The famous relief of Osuna, Sevilla, shows the familiar image of the soldier with his sword Iberians.



In fact, it is clear that all the Spanish soldiers did not wear the same way, much less, but this dress itself was the most common and the Romans identified the Spanish army of Hannibal. An aesthetic that is the most repeated in the Iberian art.


The falcata is a type of sword typical of pre-Roman Hispania (the Iberian peninsula, modern Spain and Portugal), similar to the Turkish yatagan, Greek kopis or Nepalese kukri. Its curvature, its forging, shaping it, everything was changed, or perhaps it was already well and that the Greeks adopted otherwise. Whatever its origin, this sword infused almost as much terror as the "gladius hispaniensis", was created by letting the iron rust, until only the purest heart, which gave an enormous strength to the sword. Then melted and was given the curvature (not all had the same curvature) and the size of one arm of the warrior, that is, each "falcata" was a unique weapon, and varying the length of the wearer's arm and therefore his blade. The measure was taken from the middle finger to the elbow of the arm of the warrior. This sword, just as the "hispaniensis" wore grooves in the sheet, to give more light. The handles of these weapons, often take the form of heads of animals such as horses and birds. They formed an oval surrounding the closed hand and its part of the knuckles to give blows with the butt if need be, but it was mainly to protect the hand of the sword attacks of enemies.


http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1106/1235367805_8a78666ab5.jpg
Decorated hilt of a 4th or 3rd century BC falcata from Almendinilla. Córdoba.

Canek
30-03-11, 14:46
the celts were by then the people in central europe. and now celts are more the people in the british islands.

this celtic dream by the iberians is delirious :useless:

Carlitos
31-03-11, 00:21
the celts were by then the people in central europe. and now celts are more the people in the british islands.

this celtic dream by the iberians is delirious :useless:


It is not delusional, but we have maintained contact with the great Mediterranean, culturally we felt a predilection for Eastern high culture in ancient times, it has confused a lot to the French, La Dama de Elche and other figures of strong Eastern influence has been led to believe Spain was the French who else, and is otherwise in cultural choice, we would not spend our lives doing other topics dolmens Celts, Eastern culture was more sophisticated and evolved, is consistent that the people of Iberia in contact with the Eastern culture to be swayed as a development tool, now we need another tool and we are not satisfied with having the Alhambra to attract tourists, fine, but we need to be back on top.

Franco
08-11-11, 03:52
No, the Iberians were considered Iberians, obviously. That the Iberian Peninsula is called that way does not mean it was populated by the Iberians only, just like the Italic Peninsula was not populated exclusively by IE speakers of the Italic branch. There existed other peoples too like Celts, Lusitanians (probably an Italic tribe according to some authors) and the mighty Tartessians. The Iberians were just the peoples that inhabited in the Eastern half of the Iberian peninsula, and thus they were the ones that the Greeks met when they arrived to Spain, hence they called their land "the Iberian peninsula" as they had no clue about other inhabitants like let's say those of the north-western part. There had to be strong similarity between Spanish celts and the Gauls since for example the Romans called nowadays Galicia as "Gallaecia" ("little Gaul"). Also the only tribe that called "Celts" themselves in History was one in South Portugal, the "celtici".

koni
17-10-12, 00:55
"Pliny considers the Celts from Iberia to have migrated from the territory of Lusitania's Celtici which he appears to regard as the original seat of the whole Celtic population of the Iberian peninsula including the Celtiberians, on the ground of an identity of sacred rites, language, and names of cities." Sir William Smith (1854), Dictionary of Greek and Roman Geography, Volume 2, Boston: Little, Brown and Company.

That is Evora in the center of the territory of Lusitania's Celtici is the cradle of the megalith culture and the cromelech of Almendres the University of the pre historic leaders.