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Europa
12-02-11, 12:34
Your opinion. Will Ukraine join EU?

edao
13-02-11, 17:29
I think so, in the coming 50 years I think we will see a rapid unification of nations all over the world into larger political forms. Already we are seeing Europe and American living standard being lowered by the economic rise in China.

The Ukraine will need the EU to develop its economy and will be the only route to raise living standard for its people. Poland has benefited hugely to EU membership and I'm sure other eastern block countries will be keen to make a similar move. Its already clear those in power in the EU want to cast as wide a net as possible.

Europa
16-02-11, 21:56
Aha Yeah. I think so too.

^ lynx ^
02-03-11, 17:45
I think so... but no in an inminent future.


Regards.

Cambrius (The Red)
02-03-11, 19:03
Yes. Probably sometime in the next decade.

julia90
03-03-11, 14:41
Some wikipedia Info:

Many political factions of Ukraine advocate joining the EU and developing ties with Europe. Since the Orange Revolution of late 2004, Ukraine's membership prospects have improved: Opposition leader Viktor Yushchenko hinted that he would press the EU for deeper ties, and described a four-point plan: the acknowledgment of Ukraine as a market economy, entry in the World Trade Organisation, associate membership with the EU, and lastly full membership. In a similar way, the Ukrainian government asked Brussels to give Ukraine a clearer prospect for membership, claiming that the current plan reflected only the pre-orange revolution situation. However, following ambiguous signals from the EU, Yushchenko has responded to the apathetic mood of the Commission by stating that he intends to send an application for EU membership "in the near future". In September 2009 two Ukrainian diplomats, backed by a number of others, went on record arguing that Ukraine should submit a formal application for membership in 2010 in order to get a clearer message from Brussels. If lodged in 2010, it would likely be considered a year later under the Polish EU presidency, a country which has supported Ukrainian membership. However, a 2009 poll indicates only 34% support from the Ukrainian people for membership. Inside the EU opinion is split. Several EU leaders have already stated strong support for closer economic ties with Ukraine but have stopped short of direct support for such a bid. In 2005, Polish Foreign Minister Adam Daniel Rotfeld noted that Poland will in every way promote Ukraine's desire to be integrated with the EU, get the status of a market-economy country and join the WTO. Portugal also publicly stated it supports Ukraine's EU accession. On 13 January 2005 the European Parliament almost unanimously (467 votes to 19 in favour) passed a motion stating the wish of the Parliament to establish closer ties with Ukraine with the possibility of EU membership. A 2005 poll of the six largest EU nations showed that the European public would be more likely to accept Ukraine as a future EU member than any other country that is not currently an official candidate. The European Commission has stated that future EU membership will not be ruled out and in 2005 Commission President José Manuel Barroso said that the future of Ukraine is in the EU. However, the Commission suggested that the current enlargement agenda (the Western Balkans and Turkey) could block the possibility of a future accession of the Eastern Partnership states. Enlargement Commissioner Olli Rehn said that the EU should avoid overstretch, adding that the current enlargement agenda is already very heavy. In 2002, then-Enlargement Commissioner Günter Verheugen said that "a European perspective" for Ukraine does not necessarily mean membership in 10 or 20 years, however, that does not mean it is not a possibility.

The European Union (EU) is seeking an increasingly close relationship with Ukraine, going beyond cooperation, to gradual economic integration and deepening of political cooperation.[1] Ukraine is said to be a priority partner within the European Neighborhood Policy (ENP). A joint EU–Ukraine Action Plan was endorsed by the European Council on 21 February 2005. It was based on the Partnership and cooperation agreement of 1994 and provided, according to the European Commission, a comprehensive and ambitious framework for joint of work with Ukraine in all key areas of reform. On June 16, 2009, a new practical instrument was adopted - the EU-Ukraine Association Agenda. According to the Ukrainian authorities, the ENP is not an adequate political instrument, since joining the EU was one of principal objectives of all governments since 1994. After the Orange revolution of 2004 that brought to power Viktor Yushchenko, the EU commission was very slow to react: little progress was made to put the largest European country on a path to eventual membership.
On 22 July 2008, it was announced that a "Stabilisation and Association" -type agreement would be signed between Ukraine and the EU on 8 September 2008 in Evian. Talks on a free trade agreement between Ukraine and the European Union started on 18 February 2008 between the Ukrainian government and the EU Trade Commissioner. On November 22, 2010 the European Council and Ukraine announced "an action plan for Ukraine toward the establishment of a visa-free regime for short-stay travel".
As of December 2008 44.7% of all Ukrainians find it necessary for Ukraine to enter the European Union and 35.2% see no necessity in Ukraine's entering the EU. In May 2010 more than half of Ukrainians older than 16 supported European Union membership. The current Azarov Government continues to pursue EU-integration.

julia90
03-03-11, 14:50
maybe 10 years to join. but first you have to send your joining applications.

Official candidates to enter: Croatia, Iceland, Macedonia, Montenegro, Turkey
Have sent applications: Albania, Serbia.
Potential candidates who have not sent applications: Ukraine, Bosnia Herzegovina, (Kosovo), Norway, Moldova

Could enter and be accepted by the eu population: Switzerland, Armenia, Belarus, Georgia, (Israel, Berlusconi and some italians would accept it)

Dale Cooper
22-03-11, 12:48
Ofcourse it will some day

Nathaniell
13-05-11, 17:23
The EU will go as far as Turkey and Russia eventually. Things aren't set up correctly, and they've got to wait for some economic stuff to change, as well as human rights and political stuff, but eventually it will happen. Despite the fact that Europeans thing they're so different from each other, they get along pretty well compared to the rest of the world, and there's no reason their neighbors can't join the party.

Deus
01-09-11, 23:51
Will the EU exist before Ukraine will join?

Anton, Bear's den
15-09-11, 19:47
No way!
Ukrainian destiny is to be Russia's serf №1 up to Judgement Day :laughing:

http://www.intv.ua/uploads/posts/2011-04/1303484419_yanmedved.jpg

DVDK
15-09-11, 20:51
I've read somewhere in an article that the President of Ukraine said he wants to join EU by 2020.
They also said something like that in 2005, that they would join by 2011.
If they want to make it by 2020, i would advise them to fill in an application form first.

Personally i think Ukraine has a bigger chance then Turkey has, i would also prefer Ukraine above Turkey.
But first they have other problems to solve, like drug abusing teens and corrupt governments, when it's ready with that then for me they're welcome to join the EU.

Rinconete
23-10-11, 02:34
I don't think so. Ukraine isn't to level. Also, there are a lot of pro-russian people.

Cambrius (The Red)
23-10-11, 04:55
It will take some time but I believe they will become part of the EU.

Cimmerianbloke
27-10-11, 02:24
If Putin, sorry, when Putin comes back to power, he'll make sure to get Ukraine back into his sphere of influence. What's democracy compared to gas, oil and cash?

Anton, Bear's den
27-10-11, 23:09
If Putin, sorry, when Putin comes back to power, he'll make sure to get Ukraine back into his sphere of influence. What's democracy compared to gas, oil and cash?

Don't worry, Ukraine have "two chairs" mentality. They will take oil & gas from Putin and in the same time sell itself to EU :laughing:
Putin by the way losing his popularity, from 70% in 2004 to 40% in 2011

nurset
22-04-13, 15:54
I think no.
EU is not insane to fund another poor country

albanopolis
23-04-13, 22:35
No! They are a big country, poor, and they don't seem to make any effort to join EU. They have a large Rusian population that are inclined to Join Russia. It must be said though that Ukrainians are Europeans,

Mmuller
02-09-13, 15:21
Now it is impossible... Look at Ukrainian GDP ;)

intorg
18-11-13, 16:57
Unfortunately it seems not possible. In my opinion, Russia because of its vital interests in the region would never give permission for this.

LeBrok
18-11-13, 19:11
Unfortunately it seems not possible. In my opinion, Russia because of its vital interests in the region would never give permission for this.
Russia is probably 10-20 years away from entering EU itself.

intorg
26-11-13, 10:20
Ukraine was about to sign a cooperation agreement with EU which has been suspended by Ukrainian parliament because pressure by Russia eventhough the Ukranian citizens demand the continuation of the process.



http://irglobal.blogspot.com/

matbir
15-12-13, 17:04
Why this topic seems to not exist in this forum? In Ukraine there is ongoing wave of protest against decisions of government, polish media are full of reports from there.
Maybe someday Ukraine will take part in some European structures, but it depends on what will happen in next few days. I hope that these peaceful demonstrations in Kiev will push Ukrainian government to withdraw from wrong decisions. In my opinion we should support Ukrainian efforts in integration with EU.
Here is BBC report:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-25290959

Aberdeen
15-12-13, 18:03
Because of the redrawing of the Russian/Ukranian border in the 1950s, there are a lot of ethnic Russians in the Ukraine, so it will always be divided on the question of whether to lean toward Russia or toward the west. And as long as the leader of Russia is a strong nationalist like Putin, Russia will not agree to the Ukraine entering the EU. I don't think the EU wants to poke the Russian bear in the eye with a stick.

Cambrius (The Red)
15-12-13, 18:38
Don't se why they shouldn't be considered. The Russian relationship makes things rather problematic, however.

ElHorsto
15-12-13, 18:50
Ukrainian-Russian ties are very old. Foundation of the first russian state was in today Ukraine (Kievan Rus).
In 18th century, part of Ukraine was conquered by tsarist Russia (New Russia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Russia)). Poland is the other historic big player in traditional opposition to Russia, because another part of Ukraine belonged to the Polish-Lithuanian empire.
The ukrainian population does not seem completely united with regard to Russia and EU/Poland. Both colonial players of course try to suggest otherwise in their media. Catholic and Orthodox religion divides Ukraine even more.

matbir
15-12-13, 19:17
In current policy it doesn’t matter if Crimea was or is settled by Russians or not. Most important thing is as I think that merger of East and West Germany was part of greater agreement that between Germany and Russia there will be buffer zone, part of it will be under German and part under Russian influence. And Ukraine is that Russian part. In my opinion helping Ukraine in becoming independent nation eventually will bring Russia closer to the rest of Europe.
Every central European country reformed and went thru shock of Russian sanctions, and now it is time to the same for Ukraine. Ukrainian case exceeded expectations of Ukrainian, Russian and EU politicians, no one knew that situation is so serious. EU side thought that Eastern Partnership did their work to convince Ukraine to sign cooperation agreement, Russians thought that Ukraine will join custom union with them, Ukrainians want to integrate with EU but their government wants opposite that is how to get civil unrest.

Russian minority plays secondary roles in this case, just look at Estonia and Latvia 25% and 27% respectively are Russians in Ukraine it is only 17%.


Edit:
ElHorsto
First Rus state, not first Russian state.

GloomyGonzales
15-12-13, 21:32
I guess it's pretty much stupid poll. The Ukraine will never be a member of EU coz the Ukraine is too big and too poor. Germany is not eager to put one more bagger on its pay roll.

matbir
15-12-13, 21:54
Even if Ukraine will never join EU it will benefit more from free trade by joining European Economic Area and from becoming part of Schengen Area.

GarryJP
17-12-13, 16:37
You cannot even imagine what is happening in Ukraine. It looks like a real war in the streets in Kiev. Crowds of people try to fight for the rights. But Ukraine will never join EU, because it is a very poor country.

Anton, Bear's den
20-12-13, 19:57
- Yes of course! Right after as Turkey joins!

- And when Turkey will join EU?

- Never http://cdn.eupedia.com/forum/images/smilies/main/laughing.gifhttp://cdn.eupedia.com/forum/images/smilies/main/lmao.gif

LeBrok
20-12-13, 21:14
What history teaches us is to never say never.

Marko94
21-12-13, 00:04
I think yes, maybe they enter togheter balkan country.

Marko94
21-12-13, 00:10
Your opinion. Will Ukraine join EU?
Your country is a potential important power country of east europe (maybe the second after the russia).
The problem of your country (you know that) is comunism and corruption, if you solve this two problem and you enter in a phase "democracy", i'm certainly you enter in ue and be a second power in east europe.
The problem of poor is connected to comunist and corruption.

entraunes
24-01-14, 20:38
I thînk so and I hardly wish it !!!!!!

i know a lot of ukrainian and most of them feel European, believe me !!!!

i think into 10-15 years they will be into Europe...you can't change the willing of all the population and Ianoukovitch will understand it soon...

Aberdeen
24-01-14, 23:35
- Yes of course! Right after as Turkey joins!

- And when Turkey will join EU?

- Never http://cdn.eupedia.com/forum/images/smilies/main/laughing.gifhttp://cdn.eupedia.com/forum/images/smilies/main/lmao.gif

I still think this is the most likely scenario. Unless the person who eventually replaces Putin is not another strongman but someone with a real commitment to democracy, someone who wants Russia to join the EU, and who's able to convince Russians living in both Russia and the Ukraine that the present Russian/Ukraine border should stay where it is forever. Which is very, very unlikely, IMO. Russians still remember that the eastern Ukraine was part of Russia until Khrushchev made it part of the Ukraine (and they don't think it's relevant where the Ukrainian/Russian border was in previous centuries). And Russians still seem to want to be ruled by strongmen who won't want the EU going any further east. When were Russians ever afraid to cut off their noses to spite their faces?

Ike
25-01-14, 00:55
Why do you think Ukraine wants to get into EU?
What was the voting in the Parliament anyway?

ElHorsto
25-01-14, 14:57
I still think this is the most likely scenario. Unless the person who eventually replaces Putin is not another strongman but someone with a real commitment to democracy, someone who wants Russia to join the EU, and who's able to convince Russians living in both Russia and the Ukraine that the present Russian/Ukraine border should stay where it is forever. Which is very, very unlikely, IMO. Russians still remember that the eastern Ukraine was part of Russia until Khrushchev made it part of the Ukraine (and they don't think it's relevant where the Ukrainian/Russian border was in previous centuries).


But the population of east Ukraine is truly more pro-russian, thus the country could eventually break-up where one part could join EU. I think for now Janukovich just tries to gain profit by playing games with both West and Russia because Ukraine is on the brink of bankruptcy. There are not two but three parties involved.



And Russians still seem to want to be ruled by strongmen who won't want the EU going any further east. When were Russians ever afraid to cut off their noses to spite their faces?

It's not the EU but NATO. Putin is actually pro-EU and very western oriented (see former Paris-Berlin-Moscow axis), in the tradition of Peter the Great. The strongman just insists on the fulfillment of the 2+4 treaty.

Aberdeen
25-01-14, 16:14
But the population of east Ukraine is truly more pro-russian, thus the country could eventually break-up where one part could join EU. I think for now Janukovich just tries to gain profit by playing games with both West and Russia because Ukraine is on the brink of bankruptcy. There are not two but three parties involved.



It's not the EU but NATO. Putin is actually pro-EU and very western oriented (see former Paris-Berlin-Moscow axis), in the tradition of Peter the Great. The strongman just insists on the fulfillment of the 2+4 treaty.

Based on my conversations with Ukranian immigrants to Canada, I doubt that many Ukranians would be willing to let the eastern half of their country rejoin Russia, even though it would probably be best for all concerned, and such a change might make it possible for the Ukraine to join the EU without too much trouble from Russia - that would really depend on what was happening in Russia. And I suspect that the Russians would like to have a free trade zone with the EU and close ties with Germany and France without formal EU membership, because formal EU membership would require further political integration, including perhaps eventual NATO membership. When the Germans and French think about what it would mean to have the Russians in NATO, or even in the EU in a political sense, I suspect they'd agree to a more informal arrangement on economic issues rather than having Russia in the EU. Just my opinion based on a view from a distance - I could be wrong.

Ike
25-01-14, 16:44
April 21, 1986| Associated Press
Disband NATO, Warsaw Pact, Gorbachev Says (http://articles.latimes.com/1986-04-21/news/mn-924_1_warsaw-pact)


"In a speech to workers in East Berlin, Gorbachev said Moscow is ready for 'a simultaneous disbanding of the Warsaw Pact and NATO, or, for a start, their military organizations.' The Soviets have previously said they were prepared to scrap the Warsaw Pact if the West dissolved the North Atlantic Treaty Organization military alliance. The offers have been viewed with skepticism in the West."



And he had done it 1/4 century ago. Yet we still have NATO eating up space across Europe and getting it's warheads closer to the Russian border.
So much about peace efforts...

ElHorsto
25-01-14, 16:46
Based on my conversations with Ukranian immigrants to Canada, I doubt that many Ukranians would be willing to let the eastern half of their country rejoin Russia


Certainly, that's why I actually see some risk of civil war.



, even though it would probably be best for all concerned, and such a change might make it possible for the Ukraine to join the EU without too much trouble from Russia - that would really depend on what was happening in Russia. And I suspect that the Russians would like to have a free trade zone with the EU and close ties with Germany and France without formal EU membership, because formal EU membership would require further political integration, including perhaps eventual NATO membership. When the Germans and French think about what it would mean to have the Russians in NATO, or even in the EU in a political sense, I suspect they'd agree to a more informal arrangement on economic issues rather than having Russia in the EU. Just my opinion based on a view from a distance - I could be wrong.

Absolutely. Putin never considered EU membership, neither did the EU. It was all about partnership. Russia is just too big to be member in EU. But regarding NATO, ten years ago Putin issued during a TV interview the possibility that Russia would eventually join NATO. I guess this also went out of consideration meanwhile.

matbir
25-01-14, 19:23
Two months after start of protests against Viktor Yanukovich foreign policy, Ukraine is mired in riots. The trigger for the demonstration was the refusal to sign an association agreement with the EU. Demonstrators take over government buildings in some cities and towns, it starting to look like civil war. Here are news (http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/01/24/ukraine-opposition-gives-president-election-ultimatum/). And map from Washington post:http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/files/2014/01/ukraine-protests-map-k.jpg

Coolboygcp
01-02-14, 02:25
I think that there are severals scenarios that may play out in Ukraine.

#1

Ukraine is divided, between a pro- European side, and a pro -Russian side. The pro-Europe side signs the AA, and eventually joins the EU. The pro-Russian side join the Russian Customs Union, and later joins the Eurasian Union.

#2

Elections are called immediately. The pro-Europe parties win, and form a new government, Yulia Tymoshenko is freed, and gets some sort of governmental position. Ukraine reforms, and decides to sign the AA with the EU. They forge closer ties with the EU, and eventually join it. Peace is restored, and the nation is happy.

#3

The protests turn into a civil war. The war lasts for years, and the nation turns into anarchy. The EU, NATO, and Russia intervene. This results in an international war. (This would be the worst scenario, but is likely if no reforms happen, and if elections are not called in the Ukraine).

#4

The current President holds power by attempting to crush the protests with military force. His actions shock the international community. He holds power, and does not have any new elections. He jails and (possibly) kills the opposition, and gets the country closer to Russia. The country becomes a dictatorship like Belarus.

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _____

Honestly, my personal views are that the pro-Europe parties will win an early election, and that the country will right itself. I hope that they will sign the AA, and that they will one day join the EU.

So, I guess my answer to the original question is, yes, Ukraine should be a member of the EU when reforms are implemented.

Aberdeen
01-02-14, 03:36
Look at the blue part of Matbir's map. Under which scenario will the people in that part of the Ukraine agree to your second scenario? They won't. Now look at a world map, and think about how a typical Russian strongman like Putin would feel about the Ukraine permanently tilting toward Europe. Sadly, the third scenario seems like the most probable.

Anton, Bear's den
01-02-14, 12:48
The Western Republic of Galicia and Podolia must go in direction of EU since the people who live there really share the European values, their version from 30s of 20th century http://cdn.eupedia.com/forum/images/smilies/main/laughing.gif

While industrial Eastern Ukraine and Crimea should go in direction of Russian Federation http://cdn.eupedia.com/forum/images/smilies/main/grin.png

I think comrade Stalin made a huge mistake when united western Ukraine with eastern in 1939, Ukraine the country where the borderline between different civilizations is located.

ElHorsto
18-03-14, 18:26
Germany is not eager to put one more bagger on its pay roll.

Who knows. Angela Merkel is currently more popular in Poland than in Germany.

Coolboygcp
19-03-14, 02:56
I think that Ukraine should definitely become part of the EU. I think that once it bcomes more stable in a few months, it should send an application to apply for membership following the signing of the Association Agreement.

Maleth
28-03-14, 01:24
Your opinion. Will Ukraine join EU?

Recent events will shed a new sense of emergency to move things forward, but it will still take several years as there will be lots to be done. Most difficult part will be that it has to get worst before it gets better when new reforms start getting in place. That will be a tough test.

mihaitzateo
24-08-14, 16:00
They will join because this is what Angela Merkel wants.
I wonder whom will join first EU,Montenegro,Serbia or Ukraine?

LeBrok
24-08-14, 17:49
They will join because this is what Angela Merkel wants.
In this one sentence you have ignored wishes of most Ukrainians, about 20 million people, who want to belong to EU. Can you be more, how should we say, fair and objective?

Christiaan
26-08-14, 09:03
Finally they will, but it will take some patience and effort before this will happen. Corruption is the big problem in Ukraine and as long as that is not solved it will not be allowed to join the EU. The EU will not make the same mistake again like it did with other countries.

Yetos
26-08-14, 14:18
I think that is must,

albanopolis
26-08-14, 15:58
In this one sentence you have ignored wishes of most Ukrainians, about 20 million people, who wants to belong to EU. Can you be more, how should we say, fair and objective?

I think a more natural Union for Slavic countries would have been a Slavic Union. They share the genes, the language, the culture. Slavic countries in EU is an odd occurrence.
Ukraine is a European country as much as any other Slavic country is. But it will be unfair to Turks if Ukraine is admitted and Turkey is not. Accepting both of them it will be impossible for Europe. They both constitute 1/3 of today's Europe. There will be resistance in France, England and many other countries.
Privileged partnership is the most possible scenario to facilitate both.
That means Economically tied to Europe, politically independent. Without consent of Russia they will always have territorial problems which for Europe is a condition.
Russia will sabotage it anywhere they could.
Russia is a very influential country in EU. It matters economically and can not be ignored.

LeBrok
26-08-14, 16:28
I think a more natural Union for Slavic countries would have been a Slavic Union. They share the genes, the language, the culture. Slavic countries in EU is an odd occurrence.
Ukraine is a European country as much as any other Slavic country is. EU and other political unions are mostly about economy, economical help, cooperation and safety net. If it was about ethnical identity you would have seen unions based on it.

Aberdeen
26-08-14, 17:19
I think a more natural Union for Slavic countries would have been a Slavic Union.
........


The Slavs used to have a Slavic Union. It was originally called the Russian Empire and, more recently, the Iron Curtain. But, for some unknown reason, Slavs outside Russia don't seem keen on repeating the experience.

albanopolis
26-08-14, 18:14
EU and other political unions are mostly about economy, economical help, cooperation and safety net. If it was about ethnical identity you would have seen unions based on it.
I meant to provoke some reaction with the Slavic Union. Slavs are Europeans and as such the presence of Ukraine in it, is natural. But the outcome of a Ukrainian membership is not sure if the current situation continues for long.
The expansion of the EU is no longer desired by some countries,
But the privileged partnership is an option since it gives all the economic benefits of the union members minus political benefits.
The move of western powers was designed to take Ukraine away from Russian Yoke. But Ukraine can not abandon Russia for good. There are a thousand reasons Russia is vital for Ukrainian prosperity.

LeBrok
27-08-14, 02:16
I meant to provoke some reaction with the Slavic Union. Slavs are Europeans and as such the presence of Ukraine in it, is natural. But the outcome of a Ukrainian membership is not sure if the current situation continues for long.
The expansion of the EU is no longer desired by some countries,
But the privileged partnership is an option since it gives all the economic benefits of the union members minus political benefits.
The move of western powers was designed to take Ukraine away from Russian Yoke. But Ukraine can not abandon Russia for good. There are a thousand reasons Russia is vital for Ukrainian prosperity.Please again, don't disreguard wishes of most Ukrainians. They are the ones who decided to reach towards the west. Same as Poland, Czechs, Slovaks and other Slavs did before.

LeBrok
27-08-14, 02:19
The Slavs used to have a Slavic Union. It was originally called the Russian Empire and, more recently, the Iron Curtain. But, for some unknown reason, Slavs outside Russia don't seem keen on repeating the experience. Excelent point. What Russians called "union" was actually their empire. After 100 years of Empire and another 100 years of Soviet "Union" other Slavs had enough.

albanopolis
27-08-14, 20:30
Actually the western Ukrainians are the one who aspire the Union. As you may know Eastern Ukraine is a lot more Russian inclined. Its not only the Russians that inhabit this region. Its also the Ukrainians that speak Russian. My educated estimate is that 15 to 20 million Ukrainians are firmly for Russian union.
Compared to Turkey Ukraine has a lot more advantages of getting in the union. The main advantage is the large numbers of Slavic countries currently members of the union that would campaign hard.
But membership is not guarantied.

Ike
28-08-14, 00:08
The Slavs used to have a Slavic Union. It was originally called the Russian Empire and, more recently, the Iron Curtain. But, for some unknown reason, Slavs outside Russia don't seem keen on repeating the experience.

It is only for the reason that CIA is doping them with just enough money for them to feel their position had improved. If they would manage to get the Russia down, CIA would stop funding, and then we would see just how better they really are.

Yetos
28-08-14, 00:54
It is only for the reason that CIA is doping them with just enough money for them to feel their position had improved. If they would manage to get the Russia down, CIA would stop funding, and then we would see just how better they really are.

no it has nothing to do with that,

since you are from Serbia it has to do with politics like the Blent treaty, remember Tito/Dimitrov/Stalin case, etc etc.

ElHorsto
29-08-14, 18:42
The thread is obsolete because Ukraine is toast. After all the deeds by Kiev, the eastern part will never again be part of that failed state. Initially the rebels and Russia demanded federalization, hoping for a neutral status like Finland, but this opportunity is gone.

ElHorsto
01-09-14, 15:04
The thread is obsolete because Ukraine is toast. After all the deeds by Kiev, the eastern part will never again be part of that failed state. Initially the rebels and Russia demanded federalization, hoping for a neutral status like Finland, but this opportunity is gone.

Maybe I was too quick. In the press conference they said they will only accept independence, but now they said they just want autonomy. Probably Putin/Lavrov made pressure on them to keep Ukraine united. It is too early for statements. NATO will also meet this week.

LeBrok
01-09-14, 18:32
Maybe I was too quick. In the press conference they said they will only accept independence, but now they said they just want autonomy. Probably Putin/Lavrov made pressure on them to keep Ukraine united. It is too early for statements. NATO will also meet this week.
Yes, I thought that you were too quick too. I looks like Putin will settle for autonomic districts and won't invade whole Ukraine or push for district's independance. I think, autonomy will mean joining Russia soon anyway. How hard it will be to organize referendum in autonomic districts to separate from Ukraine and join Russia?
I also think, as I mentioned in another thread, that this calamity will turn a blessing for Ukraine. Although a bit smaller in size it will be more coherent ethnically and politically. Process of joining NATO and EU should go much smoother now.

Garrick
09-09-14, 04:09
EU and other political unions are mostly about economy, economical help, cooperation and safety net. If it was about ethnical identity you would have seen unions based on it.

But few seem idealistic. Because there are limits to the spread of. Expanding to the South (Africa) and East (Asia) enters the world of different nations, cultures, values in relation to the current European. Larger the expansion (beyond geographical Europe) would result in a rapid disintegration. Therefore, in reality there are limits including ethnic and cultural, although many people don't like to talk about it.

Garrick
10-09-14, 13:02
I think a more natural Union for Slavic countries would have been a Slavic Union. They share the genes, the language, the culture. Slavic countries in EU is an odd occurrence.


It is quite natural that the Slavic peoples related to each other (for example I like the Slovaks, Czechs, Poles and others, and have friends).

And it is quite natural that the Slavic peoples are in the European Union, they are European nations.

Anthem of Yugoslavia was not Serbian or Croatian or Slovenian but Slavic. The words of this hymn was written by S. Tomasik (Slovak) and the melody was composed by M. Dabrowskiego (Pole).

Words, the first strophe and refrain (in English):

Hey, Slavs, there still lives
the spirit of our grandfathers
While for the nations beats the heart
of their sons!


There lives, there lives the Slavic spirit,
It will live for ages!
In vain threatens the abyss of Hell
In vain the fire of thunder!

Christiaan
10-09-14, 20:19
If you replace the word Slavic by Germanic it sounds a bit dark and outdated to be honest. Slavic union wouldn't work as Yugoslavia didn't work, because the biggest one is the most hated one.

Sile
10-09-14, 20:41
If you replace the word Slavic by Germanic it sounds a bit dark and outdated to be honest. Slavic union wouldn't work as Yugoslavia didn't work, because the biggest one is the most hated one.

both mean linguistic......you cannot tell genetics by languages

Christiaan
10-09-14, 21:05
both mean linguistic......you cannot tell genetics by languages

ok, for the antf*ckers (hairsplitters) ;): if you replace Slavs/Slavic by Germanic people/Germanic.

Garrick
10-09-14, 21:10
If you replace the word Slavic by Germanic it sounds a bit dark and outdated to be honest. Slavic union wouldn't work as Yugoslavia didn't work, because the biggest one is the most hated one.

Discussion of this page came from one interlocutor (#53) who thinks that Slavic people should be in "Slavic union", and that Slavs in EU are "odd occurrence".

But Slavic people are European nations and it is natural to be in European union.

European union is the home of European nations and all its citizens.

The words Slavs and Slavic are not the best choice in English (similar in another Western European languages) because Slavic people call themselves "Sloveni" or "Slaveni" which comes from the word "Slovo" (letter), ie those who speak.

Yugoslavia worked more decades and it was a prosperous country, problems resulting from the eighties when the country fell into economic crisis and communist and managerial elite did not have the courage to implement the necessary reforms, but it is long story and deserves special topic.

Ike
11-09-14, 02:18
If you replace the word Slavic by Germanic it sounds a bit dark and outdated to be honest. Slavic union wouldn't work as Yugoslavia didn't work, because the biggest one is the most hated one.

Yugoslavia worked very well, until foreign spies started supporting nationalism, separatism, irredentism and all other isms.

LeBrok
11-09-14, 06:51
Yugoslavia worked very well, until foreign spies started supporting nationalism, separatism, irredentism and all other isms.
I guess you are only one who liked it and still cares for its flag.

Christiaan
11-09-14, 13:17
Yugoslavia worked very well, until foreign spies started supporting nationalism, separatism, irredentism and all other isms.

Let me guess the Serbian nationalism was just a reaction of the "foreign" interference. Oh Boy, you should really wear a tin foil hat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tin_foil_hat) so that those western foreigners can't read your mind...


What Garrick said sounds far more sensible than your version of events. The politicians failed first economically and than on the ethnic level.

Ike
11-09-14, 14:38
I guess you are only one who liked it and still cares for its flag.

I guess it feels good to make for you to make fun of us, now that your country successfully destroyed my country.



Let me guess the Serbian nationalism was just a reaction of the "foreign" interference. Oh Boy, you should really wear a tin foil hat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tin_foil_hat) so that those western foreigners can't read your mind...

What Garrick said sounds far more sensible than your version of events. The politicians failed first economically and than on the ethnic level.

Which has nothing to do with the enormous amount of money, guns and men who were infiltrated in Yugoslavia since 1980 for that very purpose....
I don't know do you deliberately omit these facts or you're just tr***ing.

Christiaan
11-09-14, 18:50
I guess it feels good to make for you to make fun of us, now that your country successfully destroyed my country.




Which has nothing to do with the enormous amount of money, guns and men who were infiltrated in Yugoslavia since 1980 for that very purpose....
I don't know do you deliberately omit these facts or you're just tr***ing.

No, I simply don't agree with you. 95% of what happened in former Yugoslavia was caused by internal problems. Yugoslavia was not a Panama or Vietnam.

albanopolis
11-09-14, 19:36
No, I simply don't agree with you. 95% of what happened in former Yugoslavia was caused by internal problems. Yugoslavia was not a Panama or Vietnam.
The only problem with Yugoslavia were Albanians. How can a non Slavic population being incorporated in State they hated.
Albanians played their part in blowing up that artificial creature called Yugoslavia.
Religion was the other big thing. Because of religion Croats and Bosnia's saw themselves different.
There were not spies or agents from the west. The west resisted temptations for Yugoslavians destruction,
Serbia was the last one to contribute to Yugoslavia demise. Nationalism i Serbia was so sick that convinced everyone in Serbia that Serbs are the smartest guys in town. Eventually no one wanted to by that claim,

King Bardhyl
11-09-14, 19:57
No, I simply don't agree with you. 95% of what happened in former Yugoslavia was caused by internal problems. Yugoslavia was not a Panama or Vietnam.


According to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yugoslavia
The country was formed in 1918 immediately after World War I as the Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes by union of the State of Slovenes, Croats and Serbs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_Slovenes,_Croats_and_Serbs) and the Kingdom of Serbia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Serbia). It was commonly referred to at the time as the "Versailles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Versailles) state". Later, the government renamed the country leading to the first official use of Yugoslavia in 1929.

The Kingdom of Yugoslavia was created by France and Great Britain, aimed at curbing the German expansion in the Balkans.
After the WWII country became known as


:The Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia (SFR Yugoslavia or SFRY).
After the fall of the Berlin Wall and the consequence collapse of communism,ceased to exist motive of creating this state, simultaneously serbian element in the federation sought to take primacy and steer the country towards Russia.
So for these two reasons and others this artificial state can not continue to exist.

Christiaan
11-09-14, 20:03
80 years after the creation of Yugoslavia I would say the war of the nineties was still 95% caused by internal problems and not by some recent external involvement, after all it means that 3 generations had lived there to figure it out to make it work.

King Bardhyl
11-09-14, 20:12
80 years after the creation of Yugoslavia I would say the war of the nineties was still 95% caused by internal problems and not by some recent external involvement, after all it means that 3 generations had lived there to figure it out to make it work.





When we talk about phenomena such as the disintegration of a state, we must take into account external factors and internal. We are discussing this particular case for a relatively small country, so the main factors are those outside. So at the moment that this country is abandoned the mission assigned, then ....

Ike
12-09-14, 00:10
No, I simply don't agree with you. 95% of what happened in former Yugoslavia was caused by internal problems. Yugoslavia was not a Panama or Vietnam.

I don't even expect you to agree. I guess you government could't admit to their own people how dirty they play here. The conclusions that you get are quite consistent with (wrong) ideas that you were implanted about fallout of Yugoslavia.

nikkdagger
16-09-14, 19:45
why not?
YOU will embrace all european countries
but never Russia
it's too big to be embraced

-RIFFIAN-
16-09-14, 20:07
I think yes,certainly Ukraine must and should be in the EU, because Ukraine is a Christian country and the EU is a Christian club,apart from being a European country,no more to say.

I do not think it will come a day when we see a non-Christian country in the EU,in the issue of turkey, it's just a waste of time for the EU as for turkey (I think logical),turkey should think about building a Muslim club union with the countries of the Middle East/asian including Azerbeijan etc...,like us in the Maghreb Union.


A weak country in the Muslim population as albania or kosovo,bosnia,maybe they become EU members (easier to control),but like turkey,Morocco,never,I know very well what is the EU.

Darryl Campbell
17-03-15, 17:43
Perhaps in a few years, but it certainly seems like for the immediate future they won't be. Unless of course some sort of agreement is reached between all sides regarding the issue of civil war and Russian/Western involvement.

Lacroix
18-03-15, 00:39
At this moment I dont think Ukrain is ready to join. I am however convinced that they will eventually join. Atleast the parts that dont want to belong to Russia.

Pax Augusta
06-05-15, 23:25
At this moment I dont think Ukrain is ready to join. I am however convinced that they will eventually join. Atleast the parts that dont want to belong to Russia.

Not ready but it will happen.

Bogdanr
18-06-15, 15:53
When I came across this: doubtingsteven .blogspot . com/2015/06/marat-qacem-about-gay-lobby-in-latvia . html I got it at last that I don't want Ukraine enter the EU.
I can't share the EU so called values, that EuroPride and other of the sort! They are really disgusting!
And it would be just a nightmare for me and many other Ukrainians, I bet you, if one day Kiev like Riga now "was entrusted the honor" of hosting some regular EuroPride!

gstq98
19-12-16, 07:11
They can't. As ing as half the country is Russian, they simply cannot.