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Taranis
01-03-11, 10:41
I found this paper that argues that the spread of I2b2-L38 is associated with the spread of La-Tene. Obviously, I2b2-L38 is rather rare, but I thought it was interesting because it's something that may allow us to actually map the La-Tene expansion. Link here:

http://rjgg.molgen.org:8000/index.php/RJGG/article/viewFile/64/79

Your thoughts?

Jehan
03-03-11, 22:01
May be the small size of I2b2-IL38 makes it easier to reconstruct it's dwellings.

The genetic relationship between the Rhineland and the British Isles must mean something.

Eldritch
09-07-12, 20:40
Is this HG in Eastern Europe associated with the Normans?

sparkey
09-07-12, 20:49
Is this HG in Eastern Europe associated with the Normans?

By far the best study of Eastern European I2-L38 is by Hans De Beule here (https://sites.google.com/site/haplogroupil38/summary/the-east-european-connection). He does not associate it with the Normans, but rather with the Saxons, although he also considers some other possibilities.

GloomyGonzales
10-07-12, 07:56
Is this HG in Eastern Europe associated with the Normans?

For a while there's no I1 or I2 clades in the Eastern Europe that could be associated with migrations of the Normans from Scandinavia.:useless:

JFWR
10-07-12, 08:38
By far the best study of Eastern European I2-L38 is by Hans De Beule here (https://sites.google.com/site/haplogroupil38/summary/the-east-european-connection). He does not associate it with the Normans, but rather with the Saxons, although he also considers some other possibilities.

Is this only for L2-L38 or all of I2A2A in England? Because it would seem odd to me that the Saxons should represent such a small proportion of English Y-chromosomal inheritance if the Saxons, which came in droves and drove the Celts to the fringes, and ought to have had a very succesful time in becoming the majority paternal influence.

Or are they counting all of the British Isles in this study? As Scotland, Ireland, and even Wales have a pretty different history in terms of their relation to the Saxons.

sparkey
10-07-12, 17:09
Is this only for L2-L38 or all of I2A2A in England? Because it would seem odd to me that the Saxons should represent such a small proportion of English Y-chromosomal inheritance if the Saxons, which came in droves and drove the Celts to the fringes, and ought to have had a very succesful time in becoming the majority paternal influence.

Or are they counting all of the British Isles in this study? As Scotland, Ireland, and even Wales have a pretty different history in terms of their relation to the Saxons.

I think you're misinterpreting De Beule's conclusions a bit. First of all, his study is about only I2-L38, which is actually I2a2b in ISOGG terminology, not within I2a2a. Secondly, while he associates the Eastern European presence of I2-L38 with the Saxons, it's clear that he thinks that these I2-L38 Saxons are basically the patrilineal descendants of Germanicized Celts... which isn't a problem, considering that the expansion of the Saxons on Eastern Europe took place after the Germanicization of much of Central and Western Europe.

He offers a different opinion (https://sites.google.com/site/haplogroupil38/summary/la-tene) for the presence of I2-L38 in the British Isles, placing it as largely (although not necessarily entirely) the result of the Iron Age La Tene expansion.

JFWR
10-07-12, 18:09
I think you're misinterpreting De Beule's conclusions a bit. First of all, his study is about only I2-L38, which is actually I2a2b in ISOGG terminology, not within I2a2a. Secondly, while he associates the Eastern European presence of I2-L38 with the Saxons, it's clear that he thinks that these I2-L38 Saxons are basically the patrilineal descendants of Germanicized Celts... which isn't a problem, considering that the expansion of the Saxons on Eastern Europe took place after the Germanicization of much of Central and Western Europe.

My mistake, I had thought it was a sub-clade of I2a2a. I read the data wrong. Thanks for that.


He offers a different opinion (https://sites.google.com/site/haplogroupil38/summary/la-tene) for the presence of I2-L38 in the British Isles, placing it as largely (although not necessarily entirely) the result of the Iron Age La Tene expansion.


Gotcha.

Eldritch
04-06-13, 18:14
For a while there's no I1 or I2 clades in the Eastern Europe that could be associated with migrations of the Normans from Scandinavia.:useless:

Normans weren't just Scandinavian to begin with and with what basis do you claim that?