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Maciamo
01-03-11, 17:20
Poland is a big country and therefore surely deserves its own thread in the series of "greatest contributions to the world". But I admit that Poland isn't a country I know very well, so before posting a poll (no pun intended) I would like to ask Eupedia members their ideas.

On top of my mind, the most famous and influential Pole in history would be Nicholas Copernicus, who was the first to come with a scientific model of heliocentric cosmology, a milestone in the history of Western science.

I have a hard time thinking about Polish inventions or ideas that are still in use and are significant for a major part of the world population today. But as I said, it is a country that I don't know very well.

I am waiting for your suggestions. :satisfied:

Maciamo
01-03-11, 17:27
I have found this Timeline of Polish science and technology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Polish_science_and_technology). Most of these inventions are military though, and mostly outdated or of no use for ordinary people in everyday life.

Sirius2b
01-03-11, 17:33
Don't worry @Maciamo, you will see that great things will surge...

I will start by thanking Poland for giving birth to great composers such as Fryderyk Franciszek Chopin

http://www.8notes.com/wiki/images/250px-ChopinDelacroix.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGPPDV8wBOQ

Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGPPDV8wBOQ

Maciamo
01-03-11, 20:51
Don't worry @Maciamo, you will see that great things will surge...

I will start by thanking Poland for giving birth to great composers such as Fryderyk Franciszek Chopin


Yes, I know Frédéric Chopin. I had also thought of Marie Curie. (note that both Chopin and Curie became French citizens and did most of their work in France). But they are merely famous Poles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Polish_people), not properly speaking Polish contributions to the world. Chopin is a famous classical composer, but he is just one among many, in a genre heavily dominated by German speakers (which is why I listed classical music as a German contribution to the world (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16867)).

Curie's achievements (the theory of radioactivity, or the discovery of polonium and radium) could count, but they are not tangible contributions to everyday life, like say the invention of paper or concrete, the development of an international language like Latin or English, the manufacture of some of the world's best cars or electronics, the production of world renown foods (like cheese or beer or chocolate), the dominance of a particular artistic genre, the development of major economic systems (like (mercantilism, free trade, capitalism, liberalism), or else the entertainment of the global population with Hollywood, rock-n-roll or manga comic books. I would like to find contributions in those lines, even if more modest. For example, Denmark is too small a country to rival Britain, France or Germany in accomplishments, but the Danes gave us Lego, which are enjoyed by children the world over.

Sirius2b
01-03-11, 21:04
Well, I was in the process of preparing a list of famous Poles... like for example, Nobel laureates in literature (Wiaslawa Szymborska, Henryk Sienkiewicz), or other important novelists with Polish blood that migrated to other countries and were important in e.g. English or Spanish (Joseph Conrad, Elena Poniatowska)...

In Science, you already mentionen Curie... could I also mention the Cryptologist Marian Rejewski, or the Geologist Ignacy Domeyko...

(Given the amount of Polish migration to the USA, would not be difficult to find many examples as those... )

However, "pure Polish inventions that went to the World", I have to investigate more.

But we have to take into account that many of the famous Polish flowrished outside of Poland proper, precisely because a most haphazard existance of Poland, and the opresion they suffered along their History (and sometime the disapearing Poland from the map).

I will keep on looking, now that I know what are you searching in specific.

Regards.

Mzungu mchagga
01-03-11, 21:09
Can 'Solidarność' be counted as contribution to the world? It actually was the greatest Polish contribution in recent years!

Otherwise I would have also listed Copernicus, Curie and Chopin.

Maciamo
01-03-11, 23:06
Well, I was in the process of preparing a list of famous Poles... like for example, Nobel laureates in literature (Wiaslawa Szymborska, Henryk Sienkiewicz), or other important novelists with Polish blood that migrated to other countries and were important in e.g. English or Spanish (Joseph Conrad, Elena Poniatowska)...

In Science, you already mentionen Curie... could I also mention the Cryptologist Marian Rejewski, or the Geologist Ignacy Domeyko...


There is no shortage of renowned Polish scientists or artists, as attested by the list on Wikipedia in link above. Whether they are famous outside Poland or Slavic countries is another matter. Interestingly, there is a sizeable number of Poles who achieved fame abroad, mostly in the USA and France. One of my favourite Poles in history is Bronisław Malinowski (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronis%C5%82aw_Malinowski), father of modern anthropology, who incidentally lived and worked most of his adult life in Germany, England and the USA (apart from his fieldwork in Papua).

Perhaps it is because Poland was occupied by foreign powers (Russia, Germany, Sweden, Austria-Hungary) during most of its history that Poles did their best work abroad, and also consequently left Poland itself with less contributions that have influenced other countries (as Poles had to leave their own culture behind after emigrating).

Maciamo
01-03-11, 23:11
Can 'Solidarność' be counted as contribution to the world? It actually was the greatest Polish contribution in recent years!


It may be important for Poland, but how does that help/influence/please people in other countries ?

Mzungu mchagga
01-03-11, 23:53
It may be important for Poland, but how does that help/influence/please people in other countries ?

It was the first and biggest uprising against a communist regime after many years. Please correct me if I'm wrong that it also had some influence on the thinking of Eastern Block head of states as well as other uprisings in Eastern Block countries for democracy and freedom. Which subsequently brought Glasnost and Perestroika. We might also still have the USSR and Cold War then. But ok, it might be this is a little far fetched...

You can hardly imagine a German market without a Polish sausage stand. Polish sausages, like Krakower, are very popular here. However I doubt that this also counts for other European countries.

I just googled for 'Polka', but even this wasn't invented in Poland, but in Czech Republic.

Sirius2b
02-03-11, 02:48
Written by Mzungu


You can hardly imagine a German market without a Polish sausage stand. Polish sausages, like Krakower, are very popular here. However I doubt that this also counts for other European countries.



The "Dönner" could also be counted in the same manner? :D
Written by Maciamo

One of my favourite Poles in history is Bronisław Malinowski (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronis%C5%82aw_Malinowski), father of modern anthropology, who incidentally lived and worked most of his adult life in Germany, England and the USA (apart from his fieldwork in Papua).

Yes, I also like him. And his work inspired generations of anthropologists and psychologist (e.g. the work of Wilhelm Reich "Der Einbruch der sexuellen Zwangsmoral" is based strongly in his works).

Regards.

Maciamo
02-03-11, 08:58
It was the first and biggest uprising against a communist regime after many years. Please correct me if I'm wrong that it also had some influence on the thinking of Eastern Block head of states as well as other uprisings in Eastern Block countries for democracy and freedom. Which subsequently brought Glasnost and Perestroika. We might also still have the USSR and Cold War then. But ok, it might be this is a little far fetched...

There were many other uprisings in other countries of the Communist Bloc. Basically every country that is not Russia today revolted against Soviet rule, even members of the USSR. I think that the Czech and Hungarians played the foremost role in the demise of the Warsaw Pact.



You can hardly imagine a German market without a Polish sausage stand. Polish sausages, like Krakower, are very popular here. However I doubt that this also counts for other European countries.

I just googled for 'Polka', but even this wasn't invented in Poland, but in Czech Republic.

It might be common in Berlin or East Germany, but I can't remember seeing Polish sausages in Rhineland (where I go once in a while, including markets). Like with Chopin and classical music, it isn't Poland who has influenced Germany but the other way round.

Mzungu mchagga
02-03-11, 12:30
There were many other uprisings in other countries of the Communist Bloc. Basically every country that is not Russia today revolted against Soviet rule, even members of the USSR. I think that the Czech and Hungarians played the foremost role in the demise of the Warsaw Pact.

The uprisings in Czech Republic and Hungary were much earlier. But the uprising in Poland was the ignition of an unrest in the early 80's that never really calmed down again and finally ended in the collapse of the USSR and German unification. But anyways this might seem a little far fetched.



It might be common in Berlin or East Germany, but I can't remember seeing Polish sausages in Rhineland (where I go once in a while, including markets). Like with Chopin and classical music, it isn't Poland who has influenced Germany but the other way round.

Not quite. I was born and grew up in a small town near Mainz (Mayence) at the Rhine. I remember every friday a big van came a long in our street that sold Polish sausages and people stood in queues infront of it. I have to admit, it was an area highly inhabited by descendands of Volga Germans, who actually still lived their Russian culture. The same van sold it's products at the weekly market and I could see the same at any other town markets with similiar Polish sausage vendors. When I moved to Berlin nothing changed in that respect. Difference in East Germany is that East European meals prepared out of East European products (like Soljanka, Borscht etc...) are by far more common and popular than in West Germany. But I'm getting off-topic now.

Rastko Pocesta
08-03-11, 18:07
It may be important for Poland, but how does that help/influence/please people in other countries ?

It influenced millions of people all across Europe to revolt against authoritarian regimes. I'm pretty sure Poles were the ones who inspired Germans to resist Honecker's tyranny.

Mzungu mchagga
23-03-11, 01:40
What about this invention by Polish born Julius Fromm:

tatatata:

the first seamless and mass-produced CONDOM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Condom

Now that's what I really call a contribution to the world! :good_job:

Orchid
24-03-11, 23:59
Since I come from Poland and I do love my country, I'm happy with seeing such topic here :)

If you still want to catch some interesting facts about my country and its history - listen to two Sabaton songs:

1) "40:1" - about battle of Wizna in 1939 when 720 Polish soldiers stood against 42 000 Germans

2) "Uprising" - about Warsaw Uprising in 1944.

PS. It's quite clear that anti-soviet revolution in Europe began in Poland.

LeBrok
25-03-11, 05:42
Hi Orchid, glad you want to contribute here, but I think you didn't get the topic right.

Orchid
25-03-11, 14:36
LeBrok, I chose the right topic and I know that I made some kind of offtopic in my previous message, but I hope you'll forgive ;) .
I just wanted to say that it's nice to know you remember about Poland's contributions to Europe.

wersy
26-06-11, 22:52
Ignacy Łukasiewicz was the inventor of the kerosone lamp and the man behind the first Oil Rafinery in the world (located near Jasło, Galicia) effectively laying foundations for the world's oil industry.

Mzungu mchagga
28-09-11, 18:57
Full conclusion after years of conversation with other people: Polish is the hardest language in the world! Does this count as a contribution? lol

LeBrok
29-09-11, 04:57
It would be interesting if someone could explain why some languages go toward simplicity like English, and some go into extreme complexity like Polish?

Cimmerianbloke
13-12-11, 04:45
It's all a matter of point of view. Polish cases make it complicated, but the lack of articles makes it easy to form basic phrases. Spelling seems complicated but the rules are straight, and therefore reading Polish is easier than reading English. Pronunciation is a bummer though...
As for English being simple, it is probably because you are fluent. English is very flexible, which is both a blessing and a curse (who hasn't read a phrase, knowing all the single words, and unable to make sense of it?), and the learning process can be challenging (opposition short/long vowels, sounds with several spellings, irregular verbs...).
As for the greatest Polish contribution to the world, I'd vote for Polish women, who are mind-blowingly beautiful.


Hehe, by the way, I start a one-year Polish course tomorrow evening. Wish me luck...

Cimmerianbloke
13-12-11, 04:53
For info, Mzungu, the languages that are famous among linguists for being difficult (in Europe) are Basque and Hungarian. I remember reading a story about God banning Lucifer to the Basques to learn their language...

LeBrok
13-12-11, 06:16
No,no, Cimmerianbloke, the best polish contribution to the world is ME. Should I said "I"?

PS. I'm polish.

Mzungu mchagga
13-12-11, 11:39
For info, Mzungu, the languages that are famous among linguists for being difficult (in Europe) are Basque and Hungarian. I remember reading a story about God banning Lucifer to the Basques to learn their language...

Could be. But I wasn't this serious anyway, it was more meant as a joke ;-)

Have fun at the course! :smile:

Cimmerianbloke
14-12-11, 05:33
Polish king Jan III Sobieski rescued Viena during the 1683 siege of the Ottomans and therefore, if you believe most historians, saved Christian Europe from an Ottoman conquest. This is surely something that might be on the list.

LeBrok
14-12-11, 06:40
Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth was the first parliamentary monarchy in Europe, most likely in the world too, from 1569. Kings were elected, acting more like presidents than sovereign rulers.


The Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth (http://www.eupedia.com/wiki/Polish-Lithuanian_Commonwealth), formed after the Union of Lublin (http://www.eupedia.com/wiki/Union_of_Lublin) in 1569 and lasting until the final partition of the state in 1795, operated much like many modern European constitutional monarchies (into which it was officially changed by the establishment of the Constitution of May 3, 1791 (http://www.eupedia.com/wiki/Constitution_of_May_3,_1791), which historian Norman Davies (http://www.eupedia.com/wiki/Norman_Davies) calls "the first constitution of its kind in Europe"[10] (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/#cite_note-9)). The legislators of the unified state truly did not see it as a monarchy at all, but as a republic under the presidency of the King. Poland-Lithuania also followed the principle of "Rex regnat et non gubernat", had a bicameral parliament, and a collection of entrenched legal documents amounting to a constitution along the lines of the modern United Kingdom (http://www.eupedia.com/wiki/United_Kingdom). The King was elected, and had the duty of maintaining the people's rights

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitutional_monarchy



The foundation of the Commonwealth's political system, the "Golden Liberty (http://www.eupedia.com/wiki/Golden_Liberty)" (Polish (http://www.eupedia.com/wiki/Polish_language): Złota Wolność, a term used from 1573 on), included:

election (http://www.eupedia.com/wiki/Royal_elections_in_Poland) of the king by all nobles wishing to participate, known as wolna elekcja (free election);;
Sejm (http://www.eupedia.com/wiki/Sejm), the Commonwealth parliament which the king was required to hold every two years;
Pacta conventa (http://www.eupedia.com/wiki/Pacta_conventa) (Latin (http://www.eupedia.com/wiki/Latin)), "agreed-to agreements" negotiated with the king-elect, including a bill of rights, binding on the king, derived from the earlier Henrician Articles (http://www.eupedia.com/wiki/Henrician_Articles).
religious freedom (http://www.eupedia.com/wiki/Religious_toleration) guaranted by Warsaw Confederation Act 1573 (http://www.eupedia.com/wiki/Warsaw_Confederation),[14] (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/#cite_note-Norman_Davies_1795-13)
rokosz (http://www.eupedia.com/wiki/Rokosz) (insurrection (http://www.eupedia.com/wiki/Insurrection)), the right of szlachta to form a legal rebellion against a king who violated their guaranteed freedoms;
liberum veto (http://www.eupedia.com/wiki/Liberum_veto) (Latin), the right of an individual Sejm deputy to oppose a decision by the majority in a Sejm session; the voicing of such a "free veto" nullified all the legislation that had been passed at that session; during the crisis of the second half of the 17th century, Polish nobles could also use the liberum veto (http://www.eupedia.com/wiki/Liberum_veto) in provincial sejmiks (http://www.eupedia.com/wiki/Sejmik);
konfederacja (http://www.eupedia.com/wiki/Konfederacja) (from the Latin confederatio (http://www.eupedia.com/wiki/Confederatio)), the right to form an organization to force through a common political aim.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish–Lithuanian_Commonwealth

LeBrok
14-12-11, 07:36
religious freedom (http://www.eupedia.com/wiki/Religious_toleration) guaranteed by Warsaw Confederation Act 1573 (http://www.eupedia.com/wiki/Warsaw_Confederation),[ (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/#cite_note-Norman_Davies_1795-13)

Is this the first, guaranteed by law, freedom of religion act in the world?

Linas72
28-12-11, 17:07
(1) Kopernik (Copernicus) without any doubt.
(2) Poland had a sort of nobility-limited democracy in 15 th - 18 th centuries, and they experimented much on social and political issues in the country. These experiments mostly failed in result, but eventually they deeply influenced political thoughts and doctrines of Europe, contributing much indirectly to modern European and American democracy.
(3) Chopin as an artist and composer. Really his achievments were based among others on the cultural achievments of Polish nobility of his time.
(4) Also Polish scientist Jan Lukasiewicz, who is known as the inventor of the reverse Polish notation, in early 20th century contributed to contemporary logics and, indirectly, computer science.
(5) Ludwik Zamenhof, who was a Polish Jew, was the author of the most known constructed language Esperanto.

(2a) Yet Poles often claim the idea of religios tolerance as their achievment, but in fact the tolerance had been born in multi-reliogious society of then Lithuania (approx. modern Lithuania and Belarus), while original Poland was predominantly Catholic and not more tolerant than Germany at that time.

Maciamo
01-01-12, 13:22
(1) Kopernik (Copernicus) without any doubt.
(2) Poland had a sort of nobility-limited democracy in 15 th - 18 th centuries, and they experimented much on social and political issues in the country. These experiments mostly failed in result, but eventually they deeply influenced political thoughts and doctrines of Europe, contributing much indirectly to modern European and American democracy.
(3) Chopin as an artist and composer. Really his achievments were based among others on the cultural achievments of Polish nobility of his time.
(4) Also Polish scientist Jan Lukasiewicz, who is known as the inventor of the reverse Polish notation, in early 20th century contributed to contemporary logics and, indirectly, computer science.
(5) Ludwik Zamenhof, who was a Polish Jew, was the author of the most known constructed language Esperanto.

(2a) Yet Poles often claim the idea of religios tolerance as their achievment, but in fact the tolerance had been born in multi-reliogious society of then Lithuania (approx. modern Lithuania and Belarus), while original Poland was predominantly Catholic and not more tolerant than Germany at that time.

Apart from number 2, these are all great individuals, not contributions to the world. You should mention them in the appropriate thread Who were the greatest Poles in history ? (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?27190)

Number 2 (nobility-limited democracy) is a kind of oligarchy and I don't see how it is a contribution to the outside world anyway.

Linas72
01-01-12, 17:03
Apart from number 2, these are all great individuals, not contributions to the world. You should mention them in the appropriate thread

You're probably right separating the greatest persons from the national contribution to the world history, but a great person maybe great not only for his or her worldwide contribution, but also for his national contribution or even because of his extraordinar personal features without any contribution to the history. I was aware of every person you have included among the graetest (see the new thread), but i don't think, that king Sobieski, for instance, and some others contributed much to the worldwide development. The people, whom i have listed, except, perhaps, Chopin, had some connection with the history of Poland, and they can be mentioned in this discussion, i think.

Well, i agree, we may need something less personal and more nationalwide to refer in this discussion, but if we haven't, it's not so bad to write what we have. Now it's up yo us, how we'll conclude about this and how these personal contributions must be evaluated in the context of national contribution.


Number 2 (nobility-limited democracy) is a kind of oligarchy and I don't see how it is a contribution to the outside world anyway.

The modern democracy wasn't invented in a day, and any historical attempts to create something alike, especially if they were documented, contributed to its invention. The Polish experience, not so their political system itsef, but rather their attempts to better it and their experimentation on that, is one of the best known examples of such an attempt. The fact, that the Polish experience was more negative and that their attempts eventually failed, doesn't diminish the imput. Many european political scientists of the 18 century had written about this Polish imput, and it's not something absolutely new or unknown. The Polish system wasn't typical oligarchy. They considered it to be a sort of democracy the way, like nationals of Western countries look at their political system nowadays.

Crimsoner
11-11-13, 11:34
I would mention the Battle of Vienna. It was a battle of the Holy Roman Empire in league with the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth versus the Ottoman Empire and chiefdoms of the Ottoman Empire, and took place at the Kahlenberg mountain near Vienna. The armies led by Jan III Sobieski made this victory possible. Some say it was truly a victory of Europe over foreign invaders. And after that the Ottoman Empire never again was that much of a threat to Europe.
A little less spectacular, but nonetheless important contribution, was the invention of periscope. We owe this one to Jan Haweliusz.

Slav
17-11-13, 03:42
No,no, Cimmerianbloke, the best polish contribution to the world is ME. Should I said "I"?

PS. I'm polish. You said it before I could.

Slav
17-11-13, 03:46
I would mention the Battle of Vienna. It was a battle of the Holy Roman Empire in league with the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth versus the Ottoman Empire and chiefdoms of the Ottoman Empire, and took place at the Kahlenberg mountain near Vienna. The armies led by Jan III Sobieski made this victory possible. Some say it was truly a victory of Europe over foreign invaders. And after that the Ottoman Empire never again was that much of a threat to Europe.
A little less spectacular, but nonetheless important contribution, was the invention of periscope. We owe this one to Jan Haweliusz. Besides myself, I think one thing the Poles did right is we defeated the Ottomans in Vienna, yes. We saved Europe from Islamization, in my book, that is the biggest contribution we have made, besides my existence.

albanopolis
17-11-13, 05:17
I have heard that Poles have invented the land mine detector. Before that they were using their left foot to search for them.

matbir
17-11-13, 17:29
Breaking the code of enigma by Marian Rajewski, Henryk Zygalski and Jerzy Różycki.

Thulean
17-11-13, 18:49
The modern democracy wasn't invented in a day, and any historical attempts to create something alike, especially if they were documented, contributed to its invention. The Polish experience, not so their political system itsef, but rather their attempts to better it and their experimentation on that, is one of the best known examples of such an attempt. The fact, that the Polish experience was more negative and that their attempts eventually failed, doesn't diminish the imput. Many european political scientists of the 18 century had written about this Polish imput, and it's not something absolutely new or unknown. The Polish system wasn't typical oligarchy. They considered it to be a sort of democracy the way, like nationals of Western countries look at their political system nowadays.

Besides expressing admiration for the parliamentary developments of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, I agree with Linas72 saying that modern democracy wasn't invented in one day. In fact much older examples are known, the first of all being probably the "Parlamento della Patria del Friuli", which was so officially called since 1231 (English parliament: 1236), but its assemblies were held even before, since the end of the XII century (English parliament: 1212). The Parlamento lost almost all of its power in 1420, and ceased to exist in 1805.

Aberdeen
19-11-13, 02:54
religious freedom (http://www.eupedia.com/wiki/Religious_toleration) guaranteed by Warsaw Confederation Act 1573 (http://www.eupedia.com/wiki/Warsaw_Confederation),[ (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/#cite_note-Norman_Davies_1795-13)

Is this the first, guaranteed by law, freedom of religion act in the world?

No. Although the Indian emperor Ashoka made Buddhism the state religion of India, he also passed a law that prohibited anyone from any act or word against any religion. That happened over 2000 years ago. And, if you want to stay with European examples, pre-christian rulers seem to have been fairly tolerant of all religions as long as they didn't cause political problems or social disorders. For example, the Romans outlawed Druidry in Britain, where it was involved in political agitation, but not in other parts of their empire. But the Poles were very liberal for christians at the time they passed that law.

Aberdeen
01-02-14, 03:31
Here's an interesting video about Slavic cultural history created by a Polish musician.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=rr1DSgjhRqE

ElHorsto
01-02-14, 12:52
There were many other uprisings in other countries of the Communist Bloc. Basically every country that is not Russia today revolted against Soviet rule, even members of the USSR. I think that the Czech and Hungarians played the foremost role in the demise of the Warsaw Pact.


The strongest revolt against Soviet rule right before 1990 and before Gorbachev came from Poles and Hungarians, and to a lesser extent also from Czechoslovakia. The Czechs revolted more during the 1960s. At second place there were those countries who adopted Gorbachev's 'Perestroika', which was primarily soviet Russia itself. Bulgaria also adopted 'Perestroika'. The last hardline-communist countries in europe were Romania and actually GDR. If Hungarians would not have opened the borders to the west, GDR would have collapsed much later. Honecker and Ceaucescu lost power because soviet Russia did not back them anymore.

LeBrok
01-02-14, 21:52
The strongest revolt against Soviet rule right before 1990 and before Gorbachev came from Poles and Hungarians, and to a lesser extent also from Czechoslovakia. The Czechs revolted more during the 1960s. At second place there were those countries who adopted Gorbachev's 'Perestroika', which was primarily soviet Russia itself. Bulgaria also adopted 'Perestroika'. The last hardline-communist countries in europe were Romania and actually GDR. If Hungarians would not have opened the borders to the west, GDR would have collapsed much later. Honecker and Ceaucescu lost power because soviet Russia did not back them anymore.
Thanks, and as a Pole I would love to take a credit for destruction of communist regimes in Eastern Europe, giving people freedoms and rendering Cold War obsolete. :grin:

Giving some of the credit to "Polish contribution to the world" for the fall of communism have some merits to it. The credit is even more worthy as the big change happened in a fairly peaceful way without a civil war in central europe. To be honest part of the credit should be giving to polish communist/ruling party of 80s and 90s. They were least conservative among all Soviet Block nations, and smart enough to admit failure of socialist economy, introducing privatisation and unilaterally giving up power and chance to democracy.

Of course, without soviet leader with a very human face like Gorbachev it would have been impossible, as every attempt of system change would ended up with Soviet military intervention.
And the last but not least thanks to the president of US Ronald Reagan who embraced Gorbachev with respect and even as personal friend. If Gorbachev felt threatened in any way or that Russian sovereignty was in doubt, there wouldn't have been any changes to the Soviet Block.

LeBrok
01-02-14, 21:56
Here's an interesting video about Slavic cultural history created by a Polish musician.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=rr1DSgjhRqE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rr1DSgjhRqE)

Very easy on eyes video, lol, but I think you should go out tonight and have some fun.
Thanks to this video I'm never going to look at making butter the same way. :shocked:

ElHorsto
07-02-14, 14:32
Thanks, and as a Pole I would love to take a credit for destruction of communist regimes in Eastern Europe, giving people freedoms and rendering Cold War obsolete. :grin:


Yes Poles deserve credit and respect for that. Now that communism and Cold War are over it's time to relax a bit.



Giving some of the credit to "Polish contribution to the world" for the fall of communism have some merits to it. The credit is even more worthy as the big change happened in a fairly peaceful way without a civil war in central europe. To be honest part of the credit should be giving to polish communist/ruling party of 80s and 90s. They were least conservative among all Soviet Block nations, and smart enough to admit failure of socialist economy, introducing privatisation and unilaterally giving up power and chance to democracy.


I didn't know that. I thought Jaruzelski was a hardliner who fiercely fought against Solidarnosc.



Of course, without soviet leader with a very human face like Gorbachev it would have been impossible, as every attempt of system change would ended up with Soviet military intervention.
And the last but not least thanks to the president of US Ronald Reagan who embraced Gorbachev with respect and even as personal friend. If Gorbachev felt threatened in any way or that Russian sovereignty was in doubt, there wouldn't have been any changes to the Soviet Block.

Agree.

Tomenable
20-03-15, 22:22
When it comes to scientific contributions - here is a good book (PDF) in English:

"From alchemy to the present day - the choice of biographies of Polish scientists":

http://uatacz.up.krakow.pl/~wwwchemia/pliki/ISBN_978_83_7271_768_9_From_alchemy_to_the_present _day (http://uatacz.up.krakow.pl/%7Ewwwchemia/pliki/ISBN_978_83_7271_768_9_From_alchemy_to_the_present _day)

But this book doesn't mention some prominent inventors such as for example these guys:

Jan Szczepanik: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan_Szczepanik

Karol Pollak: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karol_Pollak

Kazimierz Żegleń: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casimir_Zeglen

Julian Ochorowicz: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_Ochorowicz

Jan Czochralski: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan_Czochralski

Stefan Bryła: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stefan_Bry%C5%82a

Rudolf Gundlach: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudolf_Gundlach

Jacek Karpiński: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacek_Karpi%C5%84ski

Kazimierz Prószyński: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kazimierz_Pr%C3%B3szy%C5%84ski

More recently (21st century) also Lucjan Łągiewka, his EPAR technology and other inventions (Google it).

Julian Leopold Ochorowicz was one of the most important pioneers of computers and television, in 1877 he formulated some epoch-making laws related to transmission of monochromatic motion pictures at long distances which were and still are indispensible during the process of producing computers and TV sets.

Jan Szczepanik had dozens of inventions, including important ones (at least 50 inventions and at least 92 patents - 30 British, 22 German, 21 Austrian, 15 American and 4 Polish) and several hundreds of different technical solutions, pioneer of television, pioneer of film and photography - he invented colorful movie and colorful photography, he had outstanding achievements in improving weaving technologies and weaving machinery, his another invention, bulletproof material, turned out to be efficient and saved the life of Spanish king Alfonso XIII.According to Albert Abramson, "Electronic Motion Pictures. A history of the Television Camera", published in 1955 - Jan Szczepanik is among the first three most important pioneers of television.

The book also doesn't mention great mathematician Stefan Banach:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stefan_Banach

Another great Polish mathematician and logician was Alfred Tarski:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Tarski

And already mentioned Rejewski + Różycki + Zygalski "Enigma trio".

As well as Władysław Hugo Dionizy Steinhaus (Polish-Jewish):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugo_Steinhaus

Continuing with mathematicians - Kazimierz Kuratowski:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kazimierz_Kuratowski

Stanisław Marcin Ulam - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanislaw_Ulam

Tadeusz Banachiewicz - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tadeusz_Banachiewicz

Jacek Karpiński - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacek_Karpi%C5%84ski

Kazimierz Ajdukiewicz: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kazimierz_Ajdukiewicz

In general, the entire "Lwów school of mathematics":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lw%C3%B3w_School_of_Mathematics

========================

Ignacy Łukasiewicz is mentioned in that book - he invented the way to refine kerosene from crude oil (1852), his invention of a kerosene lamp (1853) is considered as the starting point of modern oil industry, he built the first oil well (1854) and the first oil refinery (1856).

Tomenable
21-03-15, 00:05
Some of important figures from Polish literature:

Jerzy Andrzejewski - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerzy_Andrzejewski
Jan Kochanowski - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan_Kochanowski
Zygmunt Krasiński - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zygmunt_Krasi%C5%84ski
Adam Mickiewicz - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Mickiewicz
Mikołaj Rej - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miko%C5%82aj_Rej
Władysław Reymont - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W%C5%82adys%C5%82aw_Reymont
Bruno Schulz - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruno_Schulz
Henryk Sienkiewicz - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henryk_Sienkiewicz
Juliusz Słowacki - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juliusz_S%C5%82owacki
Stanisław Wyspiański - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanis%C5%82aw_Wyspia%C5%84ski
Stefan Żeromski - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stefan_%C5%BBeromski
Witold Gombrowicz - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witold_Gombrowicz
Stanisław Przybyszewski - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanis%C5%82aw_Przybyszewski
Wilhelm Albert Włodzimierz Apolinary Kostrowicki - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guillaume_Apollinaire
Józef Teodor Konrad Korzeniowski - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Conrad
Adam Gdacjusz - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Gdacjusz
Stanisław Lem - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanis%C5%82aw_Lem
Andrzej Sapkowski - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrzej_Sapkowski

===========================

Old Poland's political thought - especially all republican and democratic ideas of the 16th century - influenced also Western Europe.

For example:

Wawrzyniec Grzymała Goślicki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wawrzyniec_Grzyma%C5%82a_Go%C5%9Blicki

"The Accomplished Senator" was translated to English and influenced - among others - Thomas Jefferson, who had it in his library:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_optimo_senatore

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh130/trybald/381px-Counsellor_Goslicki.jpg

==========================

Kazimierz Siemienowicz (Polish-Lithuanian pioneer of rocketry): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kazimierz_Siemienowicz

More about Siemienowicz from NASA website, "Rockets History":

http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/153410main_Rockets_History.pdf


Kazimierz Siemienowicz, c. 1600 to c. 1651

Kazimierz Siemienowicz, a Polish-Lithuanian commander in the Polish Royal Artillery, was an expert in the fields of artillery and rocketry. He wrote a manuscript on rocketry that was partially published before his death. In Artis Magnae Artilleriae pars prima, he published a design for multistage rockets that was to become a fundamental rocket technology for rockets heading for outer space. Siemienowicz also proposed batteries for military rocket launching and delta-wing stabilizers to replace the guiding rods currently in use with military rockets.

But he is mentioned in the PDF book that I linked before.

After Siemienowicz there was also Ciołkowski, but he was a Russian citizen - info from the same NASA paper:


Konstantin E. Tsiolkovski, 1857 to 1935
Konstantin Tsiolkovski was a teacher, theorist, and astronautics pioneer. Son of a Polish forester who emigrated to Russia, he wrote and taught extensively about human space travel and is considered the father of cosmonautics and human spaceflight.

Józef Struś (16th century): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_Struthius

From wikipedia about Józef Struś:

"(...) His conceptual approach to measurement of the pulse is regarded as pioneering and revolutionary.[1][2] In Sphygmicae artis iam mille ducentos annos perditae et desideratae libri V. (first published 1540 in Basel, but only copies from 1555 are accessible) he described five types of pulses, the diagnostic meaning of those types, and the influence of body temperature and nervous system on pulse. It contains probably the earliest graphic presentation of the pulse. (...)"

http://www.dbc.wroc.pl/dlibra/doccontent?id=3215&from=FBC

==========================

Oh, and Poles invented vodka (either Poles or Russians, but more likely Poles).

Tomenable
21-03-15, 03:55
Discoverers of first extrasolar planets were Polish:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleksander_Wolszczan

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bohdan_Paczy%C5%84ski

Leopold Infeld, a Polish-Jewish physicist who worked with two German-Jewish physicists - Albert Einstein and Max Born:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leopold_Infeld

Railways, tunnels & bridges in South America: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernest_Malinowski

Poland is the worldwide larger exporter of apples (2nd is China):

http://www.thenews.pl/1/6/Artykul/155672,Prof-Pieniazek-apple-of-the-eye-of-Polish-pomology

http://www.pieniazek.com/English/HTML/Frames/PieniazekAnecdotes.htm

Esperanto language: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L._L._Zamenhof


(2a) Yet Poles often claim the idea of religios tolerance as their achievment, but in fact the tolerance had been born in multi-reliogious society of then Lithuania (approx. modern Lithuania and Belarus), while original Poland was predominantly Catholic and not more tolerant than Germany at that time.

Well, this is wrong. First of all tolerance was introduced by the Warsaw Confederation of 1573 - so it took place in Poland.

Secondly Lithuania was no more religiously diversified than Poland (Lithuania included Belarus but Poland included Prussia and Ukraine).

Maps of religious diversity in the 16th - early 17th centuries:

http://s18.postimg.org/wf2doiyev/Religions2.png

http://s23.postimg.org/ir8vuc5cr/Religions.png

So in Poland there were (of course Roman Catholicism was the main religion, both in Poland and in Lithuania):

Roman Catholics
Orthodox Christians
Uniates (Greek Catholics)
Jews / Judaism
Lutherans
Calvinists
The Polish Brethren
The Czech Brethren
Armenian Christians
Mennonites
Muslims
etc., etc.

In Lithuania during the 16th century religious diversity was actually slightly smaller than in Poland.



(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L._L._Zamenhof)

Tomenable
21-03-15, 05:23
But the most reliable data on religious structure of the PLC is here (they counted literally every temple):

However, it refers to the second half of the 18th century (not to the late 16th century):

"From the Studies on the Religious and Confessional Map of the PLC before the 1st Partition of 1772":

"Geography of Religious and Denominational Structures in the Crown of Polish Kingdom in the 2nd half of the 18th century":

https://www.academia.edu/6466617/Geografia_struktur_religijnych_i_wyznaniowych_w_Ko ronie_w_II_po%C5%82owie_XVIII_w

The same in a PDF file:

https://www.kul.pl/files/845/pdf/szady_geografia_struktur_2010.pdf

http://www.google.pl/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CDsQFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.researchgate.net%2Fprofile%2F Bogumil_Szady%2Fpublication%2F258217500_Geografia_ struktur_religijnych_i_wyznaniowych_w_Koronie_w_II _poowie_XVIII_w%2Flinks%2F0deec532970a4bf310000000 .pdf&ei=4dQMVb7AA9ftasLHgcAB&usg=AFQjCNGp_TyMXR4iYjA_AwxwZkev7N43_g&sig2=LtEqnZ_MvOIDC_-DvE6mcg&bvm=bv.88528373,d.d2s

Here is the author's website (Bogumił Szady):

http://www.kul.pl/bogumil-szady-ph-d,art_48224.html

Online maps showing locations of temples of various religions in Poland in the late 18th century:

http://hgis.kul.lublin.pl/azm/pmapper-4.2.0/map_default.phtml?language=en

RobertColumbia
29-07-15, 03:14
It would be interesting if someone could explain why some languages go toward simplicity like English, and some go into extreme complexity like Polish?


It's all a matter of point of view. Polish cases make it complicated, but the lack of articles makes it easy to form basic phrases. Spelling seems complicated but the rules are straight, and therefore reading Polish is easier than reading English. Pronunciation is a bummer though...
As for English being simple, it is probably because you are fluent. English is very flexible, which is both a blessing and a curse (who hasn't read a phrase, knowing all the single words, and unable to make sense of it?), and the learning process can be challenging (opposition short/long vowels, sounds with several spellings, irregular verbs...)....

Yes, this is correct. All natural languages have quirks. English spelling is very irregular, but its case system is quite simple and regular. Most verbs have only a few main forms (e.g. sing, sings, sang, sung, singing), and the rest of the tenses are made by using one of those and combining them with auxiliary verbs that don't change. Slavic languages typically have a huge boatload of conjugations to memorize, but their spelling systems are mostly regular, at least much more so than English.

LeBrok
29-07-15, 03:40
Yes, this is correct. All natural languages have quirks. English spelling is very irregular, but its case system is quite simple and regular. Most verbs have only a few main forms (e.g. sing, sings, sang, sung, singing), and the rest of the tenses are made by using one of those and combining them with auxiliary verbs that don't change. Slavic languages typically have a huge boatload of conjugations to memorize, but their spelling systems are mostly regular, at least much more so than English.
I'm not sure, but it seems that polish spelling is updated regularly, as soon as new/mutated word becomes most popular changes in spelling follow. English spelling seems to be very conservative, chiseled in stone, sort to speak.

My question was more about grammar than orthography.
It might be the case that English came to existence by way of fusion of other languages, therefore was a second language for most local population of England. Second languages always go through simplification in mouths of none native speakers. One might say that English was always a language of immigrants, and therefore perfect for the whole world.

Here are my sort of investigation into the subject:
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/26890-Is-complexity-of-grammar-pointing-to-roots-of-a-language

Boreas
29-07-15, 18:52
http://eastside.lv/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/35782_funny_polandball_world_map.jpg

I think, Polandball is great contribution for popular culture . Thanks to Poles

Rethel
31-07-15, 19:01
Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth was the first parliamentary monarchy in Europe, most likely in the world too, from 1569.
Kings were elected,

No, kings were elected since 1370.
First "election" was made in 1177.
Since 1573 it was full democratic election but the rules was made earlier.
Earlier choice was making by small group of people.
Parlamentary monarchy begin about 1493/1505.



acting more like presidents than sovereign rulers.

Yea! something like that. It was a life-time president.
And even not as president in presidential system, but like in parlamentary system.


Number 2 (nobility-limited democracy) is a kind of oligarchy and I don't see how it is a contribution to the outside world anyway.

No, it wasn't limited democracy!
Every member of nation could vote - elect reprezentatives to parlament and elect the king.
Did British had something like that in times of Tudors or before? I deeply dout.

But you must remember that nation = nobles.
Others inhabitants weren't from the same nation,
and weren't the citizens of the polish countries.

So, it was 100% democracy. Unfortunately.


Thanks, and as a Pole

O! It seems to explain many things... :thinking:


More recently (21st century) also Lucjan Łągiewka, his EPAR technology and other inventions (Google it).


Yea, this is the cool guy!
Something like polish Tesla.

Rethel
31-07-15, 23:32
Did someone mention about:

- Ludwik von Mises and his works?
- Zbigniew Brzeziński and his politics?

- Dawid Grun (alias David ben Gurion) - first prime minister of State of Israel and one of founder of this state
- Mieczysław Bieguń (aka Menachem Begun) similar as above
- Szymon Perski (vel Shimon Peres) - another who get Peace Nobel Price as Biegun...
- Izaak Jeziernicki (Itzhak Shamir)?

oriental
01-08-15, 00:21
Hilary Koprowski, a naturalized American Polish Jew, may have spread AIDS in Africa


Aids could be traced to the time when Prof Hilary Koprowski, and Dr Stanley Plotkin, developed an oral polio vaccine called CHAT.

http://www.congoforum.be/en/congodetail.asp?subitem=40&id=146682&Congofiche=selected


Koprowski's vaccine was given to large numbers of children, some of whom were less than 30 days old

Polio Vaccines and the Origin of AIDS - The Career of a Threatening Idea
by Brian Martin, Ph.D.

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ciencia/supressed_inventions/suppressed_inventions07.htm (http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ciencia/supressed_inventions/suppressed_inventions07.htm)

John Doe
01-08-15, 00:37
Hilary Koprowski, a naturalized American Polish Jew, may have spread AIDS in Africa



http://www.congoforum.be/en/congodetail.asp?subitem=40&id=146682&Congofiche=selected



Polio Vaccines and the Origin of AIDS - The Career of a Threatening Idea
by Brian Martin, Ph.D.

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ciencia/supressed_inventions/suppressed_inventions07.htm (http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ciencia/supressed_inventions/suppressed_inventions07.htm)
Of course, it's the Jews!

oriental
01-08-15, 00:48
Hilary Koprowski (5 December 1916 – 11 April 2013) was a Polish and American virologist (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virologist) and immunologist (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immunologist), and the inventor of the world's first effective live polio vaccine (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polio_vaccine).

Hilary Koprowski was born in Warsaw to an educated Jewish family.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hilary_Koprowski

Rethel
01-08-15, 01:42
Ary Szternfeld and his works!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ary_Abramovich_Sternfeld

Konstanty Ciołkowski

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konstantin_Tsiolkovsky

Kazimierz Siemienowicz

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kazimierz_Siemienowicz

For over two centuries this work was used in Europe as a basic artillery (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artillery) manual.[24] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kazimierz_Siemienowicz#cite_note-24) Its pyrotechnic (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrotechnic) formulations were used for over a century.[25] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kazimierz_Siemienowicz#cite_note-25) The book provided the standard designs for creating rockets (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocket), fireballs (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incendiary_device), and other pyrotechnic (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrotechnic) devices. It discussed for the first time the idea of applying a reactive technique (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Reactive_technique&action=edit&redlink=1) to artillery. It contains a large chapter on caliber, construction, production and properties of rockets (for both military and civil purposes), including multistage rockets (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multistage_rocket), batteries of rockets (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocket_battery), and rockets with delta wing (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delta_wing) stabilizers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stabilizer_%28aircraft%29) (instead of the common guiding rods (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Guiding_rod&action=edit&redlink=1)).

I don't know, did someone mention Józef Teodor Konrad Nałęcz-Korzeniowski known as Joseph Conrad?

Rethel
01-08-15, 02:56
Adauto Kovalski da Silva - the youngest writer on the world :good_job:

http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/world-records/youngest-person-to-write-a-published-book-%28male%29

https://www.google.pl/?gws_rd=ssl#q=+Adauto+Kovalski+da+Silva (http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/world-records/youngest-person-to-write-a-published-book-%28male%29)

linicx
01-08-15, 09:19
Poland has the largest Bison herd in the world. I had occasion to speak to the Principle Chief of several Native American tribes. They all tell the same story of their honored ancient old ones. The legend is the First Natives that settled in Alaska and Canada, some 12,000 years ago, followed the track of the Bison (not Buffalo) back and forth between Europe and Russia and across the Beringa Bridge several times before the honored ones did not return to Europe.

It is from this group of First Americans that settled on the Great Lakes that the Native Americans of the Midwest United States descend. I believe the Polish people should be thanked for the good care they gave and continue to give their animals.

LeBrok
01-08-15, 09:45
Poland has the largest Bison herd in the world. I had occasion to speak to the Principle Chief of several Native American tribes. They all tell the same story of their honored ancient old ones. The legend is the First Natives that settled in Alaska and Canada, some 12,000 years ago, followed the track of the Bison (not Buffalo) back and forth between Europe and Russia and across the Beringa Bridge several times before the honored ones did not return to Europe.

It is from this group of First Americans that settled on the Great Lakes that the Native Americans of the Midwest United States descend. I believe the Polish people should be thanked for the good care they gave and continue to give their animals.
Wiki article says that both European and American bison existed on both continents for at least 250 thousand years.

However, Y chromosome analysis associated wisent and American bison.[9] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bison#cite_note-9) An earlier study using amplified fragment length polymorphism fingerprinting showed a close association of wisent with American bison, and probably with the yak, but noted that the interbreeding of Bovini species made determining relationships problematic.[10] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bison#cite_note-10)
The steppe bison (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steppe_bison) (B. priscus) diverged from the lineage that led to cattle (Bos taurus) about 2 to 5 million years ago. The Bison genus is clearly in the fossil record by 2 million years ago.[11] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bison#cite_note-McDonald.2C_J._1981-11) The steppe bison spread across Eurasia and was the bison pictured in the ancient cave drawings of Spain and Southern France.
The European bison or wisent arose from the steppe bison. Without fossil evidence of other ancestral species between the steppe bison and the European bison, though the European bison might have arisen from the lineage that led to American bison if that lineage backcrossed with the steppe bison. Again, the web of relationships is confusing, but some evidence shows that the European bison is descended from bison that had migrated from Asia to North America, and then back to Europe, where they crossbred with existing steppe bison.[11] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bison#cite_note-McDonald.2C_J._1981-11)
At one point, some steppe bison crossbred with the ancestors of the modern yak. After that crossbreeding, a population of steppe bison crossed the Bering Land Bridge (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bering_Land_Bridge) to North America. Evidence exists of multiple crossings of bison to and from Asia starting before 500,000 years ago and continuing until at least 220,000 years ago. The steppe bison spread through the northern parts of North America and lived in Eurasia until around 11,000 years ago[12] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bison#cite_note-12) and North America until 4,000 to 8,000 years ago.[11] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bison#cite_note-McDonald.2C_J._1981-11)

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/14/Euroameribison.jpg/250px-Euroameribison.jpg (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Euroameribison.jpg)

Skulls of European bison (left) and American bison (right)


Bison latifrons (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bison_latifrons) (the "giant" or "longhorn" bison) is thought to have evolved in midcontinent North America from B. priscus, after the steppe bison crossed into North America.[13] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bison#cite_note-Belletal.2004-13)[14] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bison#cite_note-ScottandCox2008-14)[15] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bison#cite_note-Sandersetal.2009-15) Giant bison (B. latifrons) appeared in the fossil record about 500,000 years ago.[11] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bison#cite_note-McDonald.2C_J._1981-11) B. latifrons was one of many species of North American megafauna that became extinct during the transition from the Pleistocene to the Holocene epoch (an event referred to as the Quaternary extinction event). It is thought to have disappeared some 21,000–30,000 years ago, during the late Wisconsin glaciation.[16] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bison#cite_note-Kurten1980-16)
B. latifrons was replaced by the smaller B. antiquus (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bison_antiquus), which appeared in the North American fossil record around 250,000 years ago.[17] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bison#cite_note-17) B. antiquus, in turn, evolved into B. occidentalis (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bison_occidentalis), then into the yet smaller B. bison, the modern American bison, some 5,000 to 10,000 years ago.[18] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bison#cite_note-Wilsonetal.2008-18)[19] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bison#cite_note-19) Some researchers consider B. occidentalis to be a subspecies of B. antiquus.[20] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bison#cite_note-20)
During the population bottleneck, after the great slaughter of American bison during the 19th century, the number of bison remaining alive in North America declined to as low as 541. During that period, a handful of ranchers gathered remnants of the existing herds to save the species from extinction. These ranchers bred some of the bison with cattle in an effort to produce "cattleo"[21] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bison#cite_note-Halbert2007-21) (today called "beefalo (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beefalo)") Accidental crossings were also known to occur. Generally, male domestic bulls were crossed with buffalo cows, producing offspring of which only the females were fertile. The crossbred animals did not demonstrate any form of hybrid vigor, so the practice was abandoned. The proportion of cattle DNA that has been measured in introgressed individuals and bison herds today is typically quite low, ranging from 0.56 to 1.8%.[21] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bison#cite_note-Halbert2007-21)[22] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bison#cite_note-Polziehn-22) In the United States, many ranchers are now using DNA testing to cull the residual cattle genetics from their bison herds. The U.S. National Bison Association has adopted a code of ethics that prohibits its members from deliberately crossbreeding bison with any other species.
Some cattle breeds are intentionally bred with bison to produce, for instance, beefalo hybrids. Wisent-American bison hybrids were briefly experimented with in Germany (and found to be fully fertile) and a herd of such animals is maintained in Russia. A herd of cattle-wisent crossbreeds (zubron (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zubron)) is maintained in Poland. First-generation crosses do not occur naturally, requiring caesarean delivery. First-generation males are infertile.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bison

linicx
01-08-15, 10:43
Thank you for the information. I don't have much faith in Wiki due to the number of uncorrected errors I know about, but I digress. I based my reply on what I was told by the Principal Chiefs I spoke with.

I am not dismissing what you wrote. It is not insignificant by any means, but I would like a source that is a little more reliable. .

Rethel
01-08-15, 10:48
Native American tribes.

We have even some polish Indians and we had Inca princess and the tresure of Incas is somewhere here... :)


In Middle Ages lived some creative matematician and psychologist Witelo Śląski: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witelo

LeBrok
01-08-15, 17:35
Thank you for the information. I don't have much faith in Wiki due to the number of uncorrected errors I know about, but I digress. I based my reply on what I was told by the Principal Chiefs I spoke with.

I am not dismissing what you wrote. It is not insignificant by any means, but I would like a source that is a little more reliable. .
You can easily follow the links to scientific research in this article to confirm validity. In this case to:

McDonald, J., 1981. North American Bison, Their classification and Evolution. University of California Press, Berkeley, Los Angeles, London.

But I guess the legends are more exciting for you.

Garrick
01-08-15, 20:15
Poles are smart and curious people and they have multiple contributions in many spheres.

One of big Polish contribution is win in battle of Vienna, 1683, when Ottomans suffered a strong defeat and Muslim multinational army were driven far away from Austrian capital.

Command held by King of Poland John III Sobieski, who arrived with 70,000-80,000 troops, until then the defense of city held Graf von Starhemberg who defended the city with 15,000 troops and 7,000 volunteers.

Muslim multinational forces lead Kara Mustapha Pasha ethnic Albanian. Estimations are the he had 150,000 troops, although some sources give even 300,000 troops.

John III Sobieski, Polish king, leader of the defense of Vienna

http://www.angelfire.com/scifi2/rsolecki/images/Sobieski_portrait.jpg


Kara Mustafa Pasha, born to Albanian parents, Ottoman Grand Vizier, leader of attack on Vienna

http://www.wien-vienna.at/images4/tuerkenbelagerung74.jpg


Battle of Vienna finished of completed defeat of Muslim multinational forces and win of Christian forces. This is is the turning point in the Ottoman-Habsburg war which is the the longest war in the history. After Battle of Vienna Muslim forces were retreating, they were never able to invade Vienna.

The Pope and other foreign dignitaries hailed Sobieski as the Savior of Vienna and Western European civilization.

Tomenable
02-08-15, 15:00
Poland (later Poland-Lithuania) - alongside Hungary and the Teutonic Order - can be credited with spreading western cultural trends during the Middle Ages and during the Renaissance to the east.

For example, the map below shows the easternmost extent of Late Medieval so-called Gothic style in architecture.

Historical eastern range of Gothic architecture starts at the coast of the Gulf of Finland near Narva, then goes to the west of the Estonian-Russian border to Vasknarva and Tartu, and then to the west of the Latvian-Russian border to Alūksne, Viļaka, Ludza and Daugavpils.

After crossing the Latvian border it follows towards the city of Polotsk in North-Eastern Belarus, then from there it goes to Kamai, after that to Kreva, and from there it follows to Dzyarzhynsk (formerly Koydanava), which is located just to the south-west of the Belarusian capital city of Minsk. From that locality it goes through Mir and Iskaldz to Kletsk. And then it follows to Kamyanyets, located just to the north-east of Brest-Litovsk.

From that place, it goes exactly along the Bug River (i.e. the current Polish-Belarusian and Polish-Ukrainian border), through Kodeń and Bieławin.

Then, near Horodło, it crosses the Polish-Ukrainian border and enters Ukraine, going to Zimno (Зимне) near the border with Poland. From Zimno, it goes to Lutsk, Klevan, Hubkiv and Korets. From there it follows to Ostroh, nearby Mezhyrich and Novomalyn. Then it goes to Kremenets, Staryi Zbarazh and Terebovlya. From there it then leads to Medzhybizh and Letychiv. Then it goes on to Sutkivtsi, Kamyanets-Podilsky and to Khotyn.

After that point, the line of the eastern extent of Gothic architecture crosses the present-day Ukrainian-Romanian border, and follows to Dorohoi. From that place, it goes south to Botoșani, Hârlău, Roman and Bacău. At that point, it turns to the south-west and goes towards Prejmer, Hărman and Brașov. After reaching the city Brașov, as far as I know, it turns sharply to the west, but I'm not certain, so I will end at this city.

Map illustrating the description posted above (BTW - IIRC, Gothic architecture exists also in Finland, right?):

(the map also shows approximate eastern limit of Romanesque architecture - green points):

http://s17.postimg.org/6csmd902n/Gothic_architecture.png

http://s17.postimg.org/6csmd902n/Gothic_architecture.png

Early Medieval Romanesque architecture did not extent as far east as later Gothic architecture.

Check also the map of dominant (ruling) religions around year 1060:

http://s21.postimg.org/4b5i2cprb/Religions_in_1060.png

http://s21.postimg.org/4b5i2cprb/Religions_in_1060.png

Tomenable
04-08-15, 17:35
The World's Strongest Man is Polish (Pudzianowski), and the World's 2nd Strongest Man in Lithuanian (Savickas):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World%27s_Strongest_Man#Most_championships

http://s13.postimg.org/bpa83bntz/Pudzianowski.png


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOGz_tTborE

Tomenable
04-08-15, 18:27
Poland was historically, for a long time, the safest haven for Jews in Europe.

And - according to Holocaust survivor Severyn Ashkenazy - it is once again the case.

An article from the Jewish Journal, written by Severyn Ashkenazy (posted on September 23, 2014):

"Poland is the safest place in Europe for Jews today | Opinion | Jewish Journal":

http://www.jewishjournal.com/opinion/article/poland_is_the_safest_place_in_europe_for_jews_toda y


I survived the Holocaust in a sub-cellar in Tarnopol (Ternopil), a city now located in western Ukraine that once had a thriving Jewish as well as Polish population. Before coming to the U.S., I grew up after the war in France when philo-Semites like Albert Camus, Jean-Paul Sartre and Simone de Beauvoir, as well as Pierre Mendès France, the country’s second Jewish prime minister, were luminaries. Jewish origins have been an important part of that nation’s genius from Montaigne to composers as different as Giacomo Meyerbeer and Jacques Offenbach; to painter Camille Pissarro; to the inventor of sociology Emile Durkheim; to the writer Marcel Proust; to the philosopher Henri Bergson; to the actor Sarah Bernhardt; to the movie superstar Jean-Pierre Aumont; to the groundbreaking writer Georges Perec; to the multitalented Serge Gainsbourg … to mention only a few.

Today I am under the impression that France has forgotten about its Jewish cultural roots. The televised events from the streets of Paris and Marseilles fill me with sadness and consternation. In the middle of July [2014], thousands of Muslims, along with some anti-Semitic French Christian demonstrators, walked through the center of Paris shouting “death to the Jews.” They burned cars, vandalized Jewish stores and, as reported by the press, a number of them, armed with knives, threw stones and bottles at the Isaac Abravanel Synagogue not far from the Bastille.

I read that the polls indicate that as many as 40 percent of French Jews hide Jewish symbols. It is not surprising, as so many incidents of anti-Semitism happen daily in France. (...)

Watch also this lecture on Jewish history by a Jewish historian David Solomon:

"The Whole Jewish History in One Hour":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUlM2a2tsOM#t=3350

Below is a fragment of this lecture between 0:55:50 and 0:57:10 of the video, about Jewish history in Germany:


(...) The Shoah is not an isolated event. The project to exterminate the Jews of Germany happens here [pointing at the timeline of history], and here, and here, and here, and here, and here. And so people say - so why did Jews keep going back to Germany [like flies go to flypaper]? Why did Jews keep going back? And I say - look at your own generation. Only half a century after the Holocaust, and what is the largest growing Jewish community in the world outside of Israel? It's Germany. And yet surely the lesson of this entire wall [pointing at the timeline of history] is that Jews should not be living in Germany. We hope and we pray... in the end of the day, in hundreds of years from now, I'm hoping that... well, if I'm starting to explain that more I'm gonna get further and further into problem, so I'm gonna stop, let's go back to history (...)

Rethel
08-08-15, 00:32
(Savickas)

How Sawicki from Sawice can be a Lithuanian? :smile:

At least Masovian... :smile:

Tomenable
09-08-15, 00:05
^ You know what, I haven't thought about this before.... But yeah, it might be a Lithuanized version of Sawicki!

Coming back to Polish contributions - a very good lecture:

Ukrainian historian Roman Szporluk, "Poland in Modern Ukrainian History 1795-1991":
(he mentions also several important Polish contributions on a Europe-wide scale):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiPY5x2P3Xs


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiPY5x2P3Xs

Check also;

Ukrainian historian Yaroslav Hrytsak, "Polishing Rus': The Role of the Polish Legacy":

http://src-h.slav.hokudai.ac.jp/coe21/publish/no7_ses/chapter02.pdf

=============================

In year 1848 Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels attributed these things to Poland:

http://lewicowo.pl/karol_marks_a_powstanie_styczniowe/

http://lewicowo.pl/marks-o-polsce/


(...) Marx and Engels considered Poland as a nation first of all indispensible (nécessaire), and secondly - revolutionary. The indispensibility of the Polish nation resulted from fact, that the whole power of the Reaction in Europe since 1815 (and maybe even since the French Revolution) was based on the "sacred alliance" of Russia, Austria, and Prussia, cemented together by the Partitions of Poland. Crushing the reactionaries, destroying the "sacred alliance", required the restoration of Poland.

The revolutionary character of the Polish nation - according to Marx and Engels - resulted from fact that Poles had to be revolutional, if they did not want to die as a nation under the yoke of despotic monarchies. Aiming at destruction of the "sacred alliance" of three reactionary powers, the Poles therefore became leaders of revolutionary movements of the whole of Europe, against the patriarchal-feudal absolutism in Europe. During the hot days of "the Springtime of the Peoples" of 1848, Marx wrote: "the Poles are everywhere the generous (hochherzigen) generals of the Revolution. Glory, three times glory, to the Poles." [13]

Moreover Poles connected their struggle for national liberation with fight for enfranchisement of peasants and agrarian democracy, the only democracy possible at that time in Eastern Europe, and by doing so they affected in a revolutionary way the entire system of social relations among the nations neighbouring Poland. "The merit of Poles" - wrote Engels - "is that they were the first ones who proclaimed the truth about the connection which occurs between independence [of a nation] from external factors and the land reform inside the country."[14]

The politics of democratic movements in entire Europe at that time was concentrated on three main goals: liberation and unification of Italy; restoration of free and independent Poland; unification of Germany. Those three goals can be found in the act of the French National Assemply from 23 May 1848 and also in the headline of each number of "Tribune des Peuples" newspaper from Paris.

Marx and Engels argued, that liberation and unification of Germany was not possible as long as Prussia and Austria were oppressing the Poles. They maintained, that the emergence of independent and democratic Poland was the first condition to the emergence of democratic Germany. Hence their two demands: that Germany should resign from Polish lands remaining under Prussian rule and to demand - with use of military force if necessary - the return of Polish lands occupied by Russia.

Marx and Engels proclaimed a revolutionary war against Russia under the slogan of rebuilding independent Poland. They considered Russia to be the main pillar of the Reaction in Germany and as the ligament of the Reaction in entire Europe. "Between Russia and Germany - wrote Engels - there must be created not some sham of Poland, but a state capable of its own life: independent Poland must cover at least the same territory as before 1772, it must control not only the basins of its major rivers, but also their outlets, and it must posses a significant strip of coastline at least along the Baltic Sea. In the best interest of European democracy an independent Poland - a strong and territorially vast Poland - is absolutely necessary."[15] (...)

Footnotes:

[13] "Neue Rheinische Zeitung", Köln, No 135, 5 November 1848.
[14] "Neue Rheinische Zeitung", No 81, 20 August 1848.
[15] "Neue Rheinische Zeitung", No 81, 20 August 1848."

Johannes
09-08-15, 00:27
Did someone mention about:

- Ludwik von Mises and his works?
- Zbigniew Brzeziński and his politics?

- Dawid Grun (alias David ben Gurion) - first prime minister of State of Israel and one of founder of this state
- Mieczysław Bieguń (aka Menachem Begun) similar as above
- Szymon Perski (vel Shimon Peres) - another who get Peace Nobel Price as Biegun...
- Izaak Jeziernicki (Itzhak Shamir)?

I would be very wary about these men being "great Poles" maybe "Great Zionists?"

David Ben Gurion was the architect of the destruction of the Palestinians and was a great hypocrite. He claimed to be a "socialist" but was a crypto fascist-Zionist.
Menahem Begin was a terrorist and murderer. He was the mastermind that bombed the King David Hotel, which killed many Brits, Jews, and Arabs. He was also a chief of the Zionist terrorist groups that terrorized and killed thousands of Palestinians.
Shimon Peres? What was so great about this guy? he always tries to be the referee in Zionist israel but he is just as bad as the others.
Itshak Shamkir -- same as Begin. Another Zionist chief who took over Begins post. Criminal and murderer who became prime minister.

Only in Israel do criminals and murderers become Nobel Price winners and prime ministers. LOL!:laughing:

Rethel
09-08-15, 00:29
But their are famous... heheh :)

Did some one mentiond creators of Matrix and Warner Bros?

Johannes
09-08-15, 00:32
But their are famous... heheh :)

Did some one mentiond creators of Matrix and Warner Bros?

So are Hitler and Stalin. :grin:

Rethel
09-08-15, 00:38
So are Hitler and Stalin. :grin:

O! yea! And Feliks Dzierzyński!
In every police station in Russia is his portrait!:grin:

Johannes
09-08-15, 01:40
O! yea! And Feliks Dzierzyński!
In every police station in Russia is his portrait!:grin:

He was never a great man. He was simply a mass murderer who worked for a legitimate terrorist group called Bolsheviks or "communists." He even looked like the devil and was praised by another devil Stalin.

Johannes
09-08-15, 01:43
Did some one mentiond creators of Matrix and Warner Bros?

The creators are Jews form Hollywood, but they did not kill anyone. They just make stupid or worthless movies.

Rethel
09-08-15, 13:42
So maybe Ruben Mattus who create Häagen-Dazs?

Tomenable
09-08-15, 14:04
O! yea! And Feliks Dzierzyński!
In every police station in Russia is his portrait!
He was simply a mass murderer who worked for a legitimate terrorist group called Bolsheviks or "communists."

During Polish-Soviet peace negotiations in Riga in 1921 (following the Polish-Soviet war (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4I61EkSdgg&spfreload=10), or the Polish-Bolshevik war (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJX0MJotVyE)), one of Polish diplomats met Feliks Dzierżyński. They had known each other before, and they started to talk:

- Feliks D.: "What do people in Warsaw say about me ???"

- diplomat: "They say that you are a bloody thief and murderer."

- Feliks D.: "But why? I don't kill Poles, I only kill Russkies."

"Iron Felix" - as he was known in Russia - probably killed more Russians than any other Pole in history.

And his beloved Russians later built a city named after him: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dzerzhinsk,_Russia

Is Russia a nation of some kind of masochists or what?

Why do they built monuments for people such as Pole Dzierżyński or Georgian Stalin? :thinking:


was praised by another devil Stalin.

And Stalin was Georgian.

Rethel
09-08-15, 14:40
- Feliks D.: "But why? I don't kill Poles, I only kill Russkies."

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRC2bkMtS8ylBgSDoBhN92M7q1oo5Eo-6iOlXQV40EjB6P_jQGH



Is Russia a nation of some kind of masochists or what?

Probably they have something of that kind of mentality...
Otherwise, they would banned communistic symbols and gloryfing M.E.L.S. and Dzierżyński long ago.


Why do they built monuments for people such as Pole Dzierżyński or Georgian Stalin? :thinking:
And Stalin was Georgian.

Maybe because they have Stockholm syndrome?:rolleyes2:


About Dzierżyński are to things which one curious and one no so bad....

1) His brother was an officer in polish army and very famous doctor
2) Becuase of Felix in Soviet Union were created polish national aeras...

Tomenable
09-08-15, 14:46
It would be interesting if someone could explain why some languages go toward simplicity like English, and some go into extreme complexity like Polish?

Polish sounds to Non-Polish speakers a bit similar to how Laki Lan's song "Big Baton" sounds to Polish-speakers: :lol:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZI9MS3EoX4


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZI9MS3EoX4

Rethel
09-08-15, 17:46
Polish sounds to Non-Polish speakers a bit similar to how Laki Lan's song "Big Baton" sounds to Polish-speakers:

It has something to do with normal understandable tongue?:smile:
Some words maybe, but they don't make any sense... :rolleyes2:

Something like that? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vt4Dfa4fOEY :thinking:

Johannes
10-08-15, 03:05
During Polish-Soviet peace negotiations in Riga in 1921 (following the Polish-Soviet war (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4I61EkSdgg&spfreload=10), or the Polish-Bolshevik war (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJX0MJotVyE)), one of Polish diplomats met Feliks Dzierżyński. They had known each other before, and they started to talk:

- Feliks D.: "What do people in Warsaw say about me ???"

- diplomat: "They say that you are a bloody thief and murderer."

- Feliks D.: "But why? I don't kill Poles, I only kill Russkies."

"Iron Felix" - as he was known in Russia - probably killed more Russians than any other Pole in history.

And his beloved Russians later built a city named after him: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dzerzhinsk,Russia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dzerzhinsk,_Russia)

Is Russia a nation of some kind of masochists or what?

Why do they built monuments for people such as Pole Dzierżyński or Georgian Stalin? :thinking:

And Stalin was Georgian.

It was the communists and their followers who allowed this to happen. Only in Russia and Israel do they allow mass murderers to be put on a pedestal.

Russia has traditionally been a nation of peasants. Russian peasants usually like to be ruled by cruel or strong master. Masochists? Russians prefer cruel mass murderers and gangsters because they like/respect strong men. However, by definition Russians are actually sado-masochists. They like to inflict pain and receive it. They prefer to live like slaves than take responsibility for their actions and be free men. In other words, they prefer to have some ruler do all the thinking and take care of all problems for them; they prefer Ivan the Terrible, Peter the Great, Stalin, and Putin -- it makes them feel safe/comfortable. Cruelty is a fact of life for them. Their monuments to Lenin, Stalin, and Dzerzhynsky are proof of their strange devotion.

Fire Haired14
10-08-15, 07:40
Polish contributions to the World

They make us all look smart.

Garrick
10-08-15, 09:56
Poles gave big contributions in many different fields.

One of famous Poles is Jan Matejko, Polish painter in XIX century.

He painted large historical events, portraits and murals, and in these he was greater artist and grandmaster.

Jan Matejko, self-portrait

http://polskiedzieje.pl/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/matejko_autoportret.jpg

The Hanging of the Sigismund bell

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/28/Matejko_Hanging_of_the_Zygmunt_bell.jpg

Khaleeji
10-08-15, 12:00
Is this site only for Europeans?

Tomenable
10-08-15, 15:46
They make us all look smart.

:laughing: Well, not all, only some, like the Chinese or the Finns:

https://robertlindsay.wordpress.com/2010/05/18/who-are-the-smartest-white-europeans/

http://mentalfloss.com/article/14265/so-polish-guy-walks-iq-testing-center

http://www.pgf.cc/2006/03/28/poles-have-2nd-highest-iq-in-europe/

When it comes to these links above - large Roma minority is lowering the average score of Serbia:

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0160289606001097

Also:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-HYBLeAVHqnc/Up7pkWUuTnI/AAAAAAAABQE/ambumJrCPKY/s1600/2012-PISA-rank-6nC.png

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-HYBLeAVHqnc/Up7pkWUuTnI/AAAAAAAABQE/ambumJrCPKY/s1600/2012-PISA-rank-6nC.png

LeBrok
10-08-15, 18:23
Is this site only for Europeans?
No, it is for all, although it concentrates on Europe mostly. Welcome to Eupedia Khaleeji

Khaleeji
11-08-15, 00:25
No, it is for all, although it concentrates on Europe mostly. Welcome to Eupedia Khaleeji

Thank you for the warm welcome .

Johannes
13-08-15, 03:52
Polish sounds to Non-Polish speakers a bit similar to how Laki Lan's song "Big Baton" sounds to Polish-speakers: :lol:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZI9MS3EoX4


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZI9MS3EoX4

That's because ancient languages created confusion when describing complex concepts. For example: German philosophers. They caused a lot of confusion and problems for 100 years because they were poor writers. It was hard to tell what they meant by complex ideas. This why we had communism and facism.

English people were smart: they tried to simply the language by getting rid of useless words and phrases and in the process making the language more simple.

Fire Haired14
13-08-15, 04:50
:laughing: Well, not all, only some, like the Chinese or the Finns:

It's a stero-type from my parent's generation.

Tomenable
14-08-15, 05:16
For example: German philosophers.

Oh yeah! And my favourite is the one from your avatar:

http://s3.postimg.org/m4scumyv3/avatar49328_1.jpg

Here are some of my favourite quotes from him: :laughing: :grin:

1) "Und hiermit berühre ich die Frage der Rasse. Ich bin ein polnischer Edelmann pur sang, dem auch nicht ein Tropfen schlechtes Blut beigemischt ist, am wenigsten deutsches. Denke ich daran, wie oft ich unterwegs als Pole angeredet werde und von Polen selbst, wie selten man mich für einen Deutschen nimmt, so könnte es scheinen, dass ich nur zu den angesprenkelten Deutschen gehörte."

2) "Und doch waren meine Vorfahren polnische Edelleute: ich habe von daher viel Rassen-Instinkte im Leibe, wer weiss? Zuletzt gar noch das liberum veto."

3) "Ich danke dem Himmel, daß ich in allen meinen Instinkten Pole und nichts andres bin."

4) "Ich selbst bin immer noch Pole genug, um gegen Chopin den Rest der Musik hinzugeben."

5) "Meine Vorfahren waren polnische Edelleute, noch die Mutter meines Großvaters war Polin."

6) "Man hat mich gelehrt, die Herkunft meines Blutes und Namens auf polnische Edelleute zurückzuführen, welche Niëtzky hießen und etwa vor hundert Jahren ihre Heimat und ihren Adel aufgaben, unerträglichen religiösen Bedrückungen endlich weichend: es waren nämlich Protestanten."

Now this explains why he grew a Sobieski-like moustache! :laughing:

Johannes
16-08-15, 03:35
Oh yeah! And my favourite is the one from your avatar:

http://s3.postimg.org/m4scumyv3/avatar49328_1.jpg

Here are some of my favourite quotes from him: :laughing: :grin:

1) "Und hiermit berühre ich die Frage der Rasse. Ich bin ein polnischer Edelmann pur sang, dem auch nicht ein Tropfen schlechtes Blut beigemischt ist, am wenigsten deutsches. Denke ich daran, wie oft ich unterwegs als Pole angeredet werde und von Polen selbst, wie selten man mich für einen Deutschen nimmt, so könnte es scheinen, dass ich nur zu den angesprenkelten Deutschen gehörte."

2) "Und doch waren meine Vorfahren polnische Edelleute: ich habe von daher viel Rassen-Instinkte im Leibe, wer weiss? Zuletzt gar noch das liberum veto."

3) "Ich danke dem Himmel, daß ich in allen meinen Instinkten Pole und nichts andres bin."

4) "Ich selbst bin immer noch Pole genug, um gegen Chopin den Rest der Musik hinzugeben."

5) "Meine Vorfahren waren polnische Edelleute, noch die Mutter meines Großvaters war Polin."

6) "Man hat mich gelehrt, die Herkunft meines Blutes und Namens auf polnische Edelleute zurückzuführen, welche Niëtzky hießen und etwa vor hundert Jahren ihre Heimat und ihren Adel aufgaben, unerträglichen religiösen Bedrückungen endlich weichend: es waren nämlich Protestanten."

Now this explains why he grew a Sobieski-like moustache! :laughing:

Of course you have his favorite quotes because they deal with his insane notion that he was part Polish. But there was a study which found out that Nietzsche had no Polish ancestry. However, we can see very clearly that "fusional" languages (German in this case) can cause a lot of confusion. No wonder he was so controversial (just like Marx and Freud). They all wrote in German!

Here is the translation:
1) "And with this I touch the issue of race. I am a Polish nobleman pur sang, the not even a drop of bad blood is added, the least German. When I think about how many times I'm going to go addressed as poles and by Poland how often one takes me for a German, so it might seem that I was only to be sprinkled Germans. "


2) "And yet my ancestors were Polish noblemen: I have therefore much racial instincts in the body, who knows even more recently the liberum veto?."


3) "I thank heaven that I am in all my instincts poles and nothing else."


4) "I myself am still poles enough to add to the rest of Chopin music."


5) "My ancestors were Polish noblemen, nor the mother of my grandfather was Polish."


6) "It has taught me to trace the origin of my blood and name in Polish nobles who were called Niëtzky and about a hundred years ago gave up their home and their nobility, insufferable religious oppressions finally yielding to. It was namely Protestants"

Tomenable
16-08-15, 15:47
But there was a study which found out that Nietzsche had no Polish ancestry

Sorry man, but that study was worthless because it worked only on genealogy, not genetics. His mother could be cheating in bed with some Polish guy, for example, and that wasn't going to be included in his official family tree... :laughing: They should test his autosomal and uniparental DNA instead, and check if he clustered with Poles, or with Germans. Actually, most of Germans have some Polish ancestry, because various regional groups of Germans share more IBD blocks with Poles than with each other.

See the quote below (from "The Geography of Recent Genetic Ancestry across Europe" by P. Ralph and G. Coop):



(...)
individuals in the United Kingdom share more IBD blocks on average, and hence more close genetic ancestors, with individuals from Ireland than with other individuals from the United Kingdom (1.26 versus 1.09 blocks at least 1 cM per pair, Mann-Whitney p<10−10), and Germans share similarly more with Polish than with other Germans (1.24 versus 1.05, p = 5.7×10−6)
(...)

This implies, that most of Germans have some Polish ancestry, and that Germans are a "mongrel nation", like Brits (this is why Germans from one region do not share many IBD blocks with Germans from other regions, because they all have distinct ancestors, sharing only language and culture, not genes). Brits share lots of IBD with Irish due to their ethnic Celtic ancestors.

Moreover, identity is what matters. For example, there is no "American gene", but there is American nation. If he identified as a Pole, then why did German nationalists try to prove, that he was German? The same German nationalists claim, that Lutheran Poles in East Prussia were German, because in a plebiscite they voted to remain part of Prussia. Double standards ???

According to German nationalists, a person with Polish ancestry can be German if he/she identifies as such, but a person with German ancestry cannot be Polish even if he/she identifies as such. And this is called "double standards".


Here is the translation

Terrible translation - did you use Google Translate ??? :laughing:

I have better translation to both English and to Polish, if you want.


his insane notion

"Insane" is rather your notion that you are "Celtic" or "Germanic". BTW - read Walter Goffart, "None of Them Were Germans", and you will see that barbarian tribes who invaded Roman Iberia were never referred to as being "Germanic":

Link: https://books.google.pl/books?id=dM3kdRzztiIC&pg=PA187&lpg=PA187&dq=Goffart+No+of+them+were+Germans&source=bl&ots=PBsnJsdqYF&sig=wDOU12p8ePK4ea6yBFb2VP6KCxg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CCEQ6AEwAGoVChMI48rAn9OtxwIVQr5yCh1bFQ2_#v=on epage&q=Goffart%20No%20of%20them%20were%20Germans&f=false

Johannes
17-08-15, 23:48
"Sorry man, but that study was worthless because it worked only on genealogy, not genetics. .. They should test his autosomal and uniparental DNA instead, and check if he clustered with Poles, or with Germans. Actually, most of Germans have some Polish ancestry, because various regional groups of Germans share more IBD blocks with Poles than with each other."

Ok, why dont you ask the Nietzsche Philosophical Club or some German university to do a test on him? In his autobiography Nietzsche claimed his mother was pure German and his father part Pole. Even if he had some Polish ancestry it does not mean he was Polish or near Polish. Of course some Germans cluster near Poles. It's natural. We already agreed that there is about 10-20% R1a in East Germany.

"Moreover, identity is what matters. If he identified as a Pole, then why did German nationalists try to prove, that he was German?"

Nietzsche identified as a Pole not because he thought he was a Pole but because he hated the Germans for ignoring his books and for the growing nationalist movement in Europe (especially Germany). Nietzsche hated all nationalists and wanted all Europeans to mix and become one nation (a good and very advanced idea, but that never gets adopted).

"Terrible translation - did you use Google Translate ??? :laughing: I have better translation to both English and to Polish, if you want."

What else can I use? Let me see it.

'"Insane" is rather your notion that you are "Celtic" or "Germanic". BTW - read Walter Goffart, "None of Them Were Germans", and you will see that barbarian tribes who invaded Roman Iberia were never referred to as being "Germanic"'

Insane??? What are you talking about? Who cares anyway? The name was not adopted at the time. So what? They were Goths and Swabians, and we know now they were Germans or Germanic. What's your point? As for Celts in Iberia the majority of the population at the time was either pure or part Celtic. I can also say "insane" your notions that you try to make all East Germans (even Scandinavians) into Slavs. :grin:

PIER1A
15-03-16, 11:34
Of course Copernicus...
no other Polish inventions including Maria Curie are not even close in scale of Copernicus' discovery

Tomenable
07-08-17, 03:40
The map was published in 1932 and it shows 5000 distinguished Polish people from the 19th century. The map is extremely large (19916 x 12467 pixels). It includes only people born in areas which were within the political borders of Poland as of 1772 and as of 1921 (so it does not include ethnically Polish people born outside of this territory, but it does include national minorities in Poland). There is also an English edition of this map, but I couldn't find it.


Link: https://polona.pl/item/69516556/0/


http://i.imgur.com/oTThKHW.jpg


It also shows numbers of distinguished people connected with some cities, by their national identity:


Warsaw - 1118, including:


Poles - 1112
Jews - 4
Russians - 2


Lviv - 308, including:


Poles - 290
Ukrainians - 16
Jews - 2


Vilnius - 234, including:


Poles - 225
Jews - 5
Lithuanians - 2
Russians - 2


Cracow - 177, including:


Poles - 175
Jews - 1
Ukrainians - 1


Poznan - 165, including:


Poles - 142
Germans - 23


Kiev - 90, including:


Russians - 61
Ukrainians - 15
Poles - 14


Plock - 48, including:


Poles - 48


Kalisz - 45, including:


Poles - 45


Lublin - 36, including:


Poles - 36


Bydgoszcz - 12, including:


Poles - 8
Germans - 4


Torun - 10, including:


Poles - 7
Germans - 3


======================


Letters after each surname mean:


A - actor/actress
B - fiction writer etc.
Ch, Sch. - chemist
D - doctor
Ec. - economist
Est. - esthetician
F or G - painter
Fl - sculptor
Fz. - physicist
Fzl. - physiologist
Gg. - geographer
Glg. - geologist
Gn - general
H. - historian
I. - industrialist or engineer
J. - jurist or lawyer
L. - littérateur or writer
M. - musician or composer
N. - naturalist
Nb., Nzo. - botanist, zoologist
O. - officer (military)
P. - politician, activist
Pg - educationalist, pedagogue
Pt - poet
S. - scientist (exact sciences)
T - theologist
U - various (univers.)
V - voyager
X, Xb, Xab - priest, bishop, archbishop

Tomenable
07-08-17, 03:55
And this is also a useful website:

pantheon.media.mit.edu/ (http://pantheon.media.mit.edu/)

Tomenable
28-08-17, 02:45
Not sure if I mentioned this before:

https://www.slavorum.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/tumblr_mojx6bIl261svgfdso1_500.jpg