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View Full Version : Why Europe wouldn't stop Gaddafi?



kgnju
17-03-11, 10:13
:thinking:Any explanation?Especially from German friends!

LeBrok
17-03-11, 17:43
Why China didn't stop Gaddafi?

Till there is genocide or war with neighbouring countries Europe and US won't do a thing, and they shouldn't. This is a country internal struggle.

Antigone
17-03-11, 19:05
Why China didn't stop Gaddafi?

Till there is genocide or war with neighbouring countries Europe and US won't do a thing, and they shouldn't. This is a country internal struggle.

Yes I agree, it is not for anyone to interfere in what is a civil war unless formally asked by the Libyans themselves.

Besides Europe and the US do not have a good history in that part of the world and aren't particularly liked. The worst thing we could do is step in and start ordering everyone around.

LeBrok
18-03-11, 01:50
Even the opposition/rebels are asking the west not to sand land troops. The funny thing is they are asking for no fly zone, that would meant attacking Gaddafi's plains. They are ok with this lol, like this is not an act of foreign intervention. Should we play god and strike Gaddafi with invisible hand?

Civil wars, civil straggles are a normal part of every country/nation development. All European countries went through it, and some still going, and US went through it too. When Libya is ready for democracy, the democratic forces will be so strong that nothing much will hold it back, that's what happened when finally communism collapsed in Europe. Right now, we might chose to help Libya's rebels but who knows that we are not helping to create new islamic state like Iran. I'd say we better leave it alone for internal Libya's fractions to play it by themselves.
We only should react when there is a genocide happening.

Taranis
18-03-11, 01:58
Well, Europe (with exception of Germany :annoyed: ) is doing something now. The UN resolution is essentially a blanc cheque (the literal wording was "all necessary measures") for France and Britain to do anything to stop Gaddafi. Short of a ground invasion, that is.

Melusine
18-03-11, 04:29
With this no-fly-zone now in effect. Gaddafi's fate is sealed. Most likely he will be "history" within the next week or two. These next two to three days coming up will tell more of what the UN plans to do.

Bon Voyage to his Amazon Guards!

The UN with France and Britain in the lead can fire missiles from ships and "other countries". With Satelites the UN is well aware of Gaddafi's positions and army/armor and where they need to strike.

Melusine

LeBrok
18-03-11, 07:57
It will take a week or two to just organize no fly zone and monitor it constantly. Also west won't be too fast on a trigger. If Gaddafi stays in power he can organize terrorist actions against involved countries, as he did before. If west starts fighting Gaddafi, west better finishes him quickly, or will face a consequence of his vengeance.

As for the fighting, Gaddafi has a higher hand at the moment. He has more organized army, better equipment, billions of dollars to buy new arms and hire mercenaries.
The rebels have a great fighting spirit on their side, but they are very disorganized.
So far they are no match for Gaddafi.
If rebels are persistent for a long time they might win independence for the east part of Libya and separate. Gaddafi and his clan will hold the west Libya and the oil.

Antigone
18-03-11, 08:51
What I find troubling is that it is the Arab League pushing most strongly for the no fly zone but there has been no offer from them of actual involvement in the implementation of it. Rather like sending the ignorant lambs out to the slaughter.

Also it was these rebels that we are supposed to be helping who were responsible for the jailing and death sentence on those European doctors and nurses who supposedly (they claimed) were responsible for spreading Aids in a hospital. It was actually the Gadafi's who got them out and back home. Things are never as they seem to outsiders.

kgnju
18-03-11, 16:49
This time France and Britain take the lead of Europe again!Why not Germany?They are the biggest country in EU!Could Berlin be tolerated to be called "political DWARF" any longer?

kgnju
18-03-11, 16:52
[QUOTE=LeBrok;368015]Why China didn't stop Gaddafi?QUOTE]
Obviuosly,you don't know that Gaddafi is friendly to my country:laughing:

Taranis
18-03-11, 17:26
This time France and Britain take the lead of Europe again!Why not Germany?They are the biggest country in EU!Could Berlin be tolerated to be called "political DWARF" any longer?

I think for Germany the concept of a no-fly-zone is troublesome: Germany still has it's WWII stigma, which tends to dominate discussions of military interventions. The problem is that it seems really absurd in this context, after all it is about stopping violence. Also, one must say that Germany participated in active military operations - the Kosovo War (in 1999), and the War in Afghanistan (since 2001), in so far that "WWII curse" is broken, at least on a theoretical basis. I must also say that the situation is twofold: it is one thing for Germany to say it will not participate in the military operation, but also to abstain in the UN security council is, in my opinion, an example of cowardice. I think that there will be repercussions from this inaction of Germany in the future, both abroad and domestically. NATO members will be distrustful of Germany in the future and consider it unreliable. There were also talks about Germany potentially becoming a permanent member of the UN security council, and with these actions I think Germany can prettymuch forget about ever becoming a permanent member.
Domestically, I believe the current German government has made itself an inch more unpopular (I mean, Gaddafi praised us for our "model behaviour" - that is something you do not want to hear from somebody like him :angry: ) and will be punished as a result in the next elections.

LeBrok
18-03-11, 18:01
Obviuosly,you don't know that Gaddafi is friendly to my country:laughing:

Yeh, seeing how many Chinese citizens are being evacuated, may jaw dropped, lol.
See, Europe is in similar predicament. In last decade Gaddafi became a friend of Europe and had good relations with many countries. The biggest friendly connections where with Italians buying lots of Libya's oil and gas, and to lesser extent few other countries were involved.

Melusine
19-03-11, 22:58
Earlier today, from AOL news:

French fighter jets open fire in Libya as Western Military intervention begins.

kgnju
20-03-11, 05:32
Earlier today, from AOL news:

French fighter jets open fire in Libya as Western Military intervention begins.
Yes,I got the news.Thank you!

^ lynx ^
20-03-11, 10:50
This guy should have flown to Venezuela when he got the chance. His friend Hugo would have given him a proper protection. Now he is most likely to end like Hussein.

Regards.

Spion Stirlitz
03-04-11, 18:02
Obviuosly,you don't know that Gaddafi is friendly to my country:laughing:

Gaddafi is friend of China.

Is China a friend of Gaddafi?

LeBrok
10-04-11, 21:48
3 weeks into the western intervention in Libya, and what do we have now?

Rebel situation doesn’t look too promising at the moment. It’s been reported that rebel forces count is about one thousand fighters on front line. Even though if rebels will muster few thousands, they still are inferior fighting force with small weapons and not much training.
Western forces exceeded my expectation which was just building no fly zone over Libya. They got extended mandate from UN and eagerly stroke Gaddafi forces on the ground. But even this didn’t stop his forces and now rebels are pushed back and losing ground every day.
Other disappointment is lack of popular support for rebels. Just look how few volunteers they can muster to fight on their side. It means that ordinary Libyans are not that upset with Gaddafi, if they were really unhappy there would be tens or hundred of thousand fighters on rebel’s side.
Population of Libya is 6.5 million, mostly young people. That’s roughly 3 mil men, so at least 1 mil is fit to fight. Even if one in ten goes to fight for opposition, which should give 100 thousand men army.
This shows that the ones of us, who voiced doubts about quality of opposition, had a huge valid point.

So, what’s now? Looks like Gaddafi will win soon. Maybe Benghazi will be autonomous, if opposition is willing to fight hard and dye for freedom and democracy. Of course NATO bombs will be needed to weaken Gaddafi’s forces while siege of Benghazi continues.
And what we will do with Gaddafi? He’s really pissed off at west now, and from his past we can count on him striking us back with vengeance, with terrorist attics. He has to go, but how?

Right now it’s obvious for me that west didn’t pick the right option dealing with this crisis. I’d say they should have cut the line in the middle of Libya with land forces, split country in half and kept involved parties separated. When you look at this map you can see that even the oil would be split roughly in half.

http://www.almassara.com/images/stories/map%20of%20gas%20and%20oil%20fields%20in%20libya.G IF

Anton, Bear's den
07-09-11, 19:08
Looks like colonel Gaddafi has been "democratized", R.I.P.

http://dematom.com/images/2011/07/21/396566-ask_them_how_qaddafi_oppresses_his_people.jpg

But he still can continue solo career


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDFF6Kq8pRQ&feature=channel_video_title


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBY-0n4esNY

Reinaert
07-09-11, 23:49
Haha.. International intervention in Libya stinks as hell!

Bodin
09-09-11, 11:09
Lets dont lie to areselves , war in Lybia dont have nothing to do with democracy . Yes Gadaffi is dictator ,but are his oponents democrats? ( Islamist who would impose sheriyat law - less democratic than Gadafiies soft comunism ) Yes his regime is opresive , but Lybia is next to Cape Verde and South Africa best place to live in Africa - high paychecks , low criminal , free cars , free apartmants ,...
Real reason for war is oil . China in last decade geting its hands on African resources - giving cheap credits , cheap mashines ( they have lot cheaper production than west ) , cheap experts ( tens of thousands Chinese workers all over Africa and hundreds of companies ) ,...
Real reason for war is Lybian oil . France and Italy importing lot of oil from there - so they are interested for war , Germany wouldnt get anything from war - so it is not interested , simply as that .
USA and its faithfull folower GB , force democracy all over world - with agenda of spreading its influence on newformed goverments ( they get them on , they could push them down ) . Kind like Atheens after Peloponesian war - maritime aliance (Tallasa) .
There is also economic interest - Iraq/ oil ; Afganistan / opium poppy fields ( papaver somniferum ) - produce of heroin increased seven times since USA intervention , and there is also little thing of tightening the ring around Russia

Bodin
10-09-11, 19:57
Same Gadaffi spread his tent infront of Italian Parlament in february , with his camels and female bodygard, and he was greated like friend . Is he turned undemocratic in last few months?

Anton, Bear's den
13-09-11, 23:06
Yes Gadaffi is dictator ,but are his oponents democrats?
The new mayor of Tripoli is ex-Taliban extremist
http://www.lefigaro.fr/international/2011/09/02/01003-20110902ARTFIG00579-belhaj-l-ex-djihadiste-rallie-a-l-occident.php

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/8758553/Libya-could-fall-into-hands-of-extremists-Nato-warns.html


Article number 1 of the Transitional National Charter of Libyan rebels (similar to the draft constitution) states: "Libya is an independent, sovereign, unitary and indivisible state. This is a democratic and decentralized state, a source of power which is its people. His religion - Islam, and the source of law are the principles of the Islamic Shariah."

it's from another French newspaper: http://www.lemonde.fr/idees/article/2011/09/08/libye-les-problemes-ne-font-que-commencer_1569051_3232.html

Lybian "democratic" rebels gutting the man like a pig and screaming "allahu akbar", such kind of people are "oppressed Libyan democratic freedom fighters" according to media of some countries


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmhT1hg0AIE&skipcontrinter=1