Do Celts still exist?

sparkey

Great Adventurer
Messages
2,250
Reaction score
352
Points
0
Location
California
Ethnic group
3/4 Colonial American, 1/8 Cornish, 1/8 Welsh
Y-DNA haplogroup
I2c1 PF3892+ (Swiss)
mtDNA haplogroup
U4a (Cornish)
I am diverting this discussion from the "Celts of Iberia" thread, because it is only tangentially related, that thread is too long, and I was surprised to find on that thread that it is actually a contentious issue.

So... do Celts still exist today? If so, who are they? Certain ethnic groups (Welsh, Irish, Bretons, etc.)? Only components of certain ethnic groups (say, the Gaelic-speaking Scots)?

Here are some candidates:

  • The Welsh (Cymry). Their native tongue is Welsh (Cymru), which was spoken by 21% of them as of 2004.
  • The Irish (Éireannaigh). Their native tongue is Irish (Gaeilge), which 1.66 million Irish knew some of as of 2006 (mostly academic, but there are native Irish speakers).
  • The Bretons (Bretoned). Their native tongue is Breton (Brezhoneg), which has about 200,000 speakers.
  • The Scots (Albannaich). One of their native tongues is Scottish Gaelic (Gàidhlig), spoken by 1.2% of them as of 2001.
  • The Manx (Manninee). Their native language was Manx (Gaelg), which went extinct in 1974, but has been revived by reconstructionists.
  • The Cornish (Kernowyon). Their native language was Cornish (Kernewek), which went extinct circa 1891, but has been revived by reconstructionists.
Some other possibilities for modern Celts include certain Iberian groups who maintain a Celtic identity to some degree, like Galicians. Celtic culture was once widespread in Western Europe, so many modern ethnic groups can claim Celtic heritage, including some large groups like the English and French, but they rarely actively identify as Celts nowadays.

For what it's worth, I have a broad view of who is a Celt, and believe that an ethnic group can be both Celtic and something else at the same time. So, for example, the Welsh are Celts even though most speak a Germanic language as their first language because they maintain a Celtic culture. The Scots, on the other hand, are a fusion Germanic-Celtic culture, and their ethnicity can similarly be considered Germanic-Celtic fusion.

Although ethnic identity can be as much an individual thing as a collective thing, the closest I can come to specifying how Celtic groups are goes like this:

  • The Welsh are Celts. Their language is both Celtic and Germanic, and their culture is primarily Celtic.
  • The Irish are Celts. Their language is both Celtic and Germanic, and their culture is primarily Celtic.
  • The Bretons (not everybody in modern Britanny, just those who identify as Bretons primarily) are Celts. Their language is both Celtic and Romance, and their culture is primarily Celtic.
  • The Scots are Celtic and Germanic. Their language is mostly Germanic but sometimes Celtic, and their culture is both Germanic and Celtic.
  • The Manx are Celtic and Germanic. Their language is mostly Germanic, and their culture is both Germanic and Celtic.
  • The Cornish are Celtic and Germanic. Their language is mostly Germanic, and their culture is both Germanic and Celtic.
 
I am diverting this discussion from the "Celts of Iberia" thread, because it is only tangentially related, that thread is too long, and I was surprised to find on that thread that it is actually a contentious issue.

So... do Celts still exist today? If so, who are they? Certain ethnic groups (Welsh, Irish, Bretons, etc.)? Only components of certain ethnic groups (say, the Gaelic-speaking Scots)?

Here are some candidates:

  • The Welsh (Cymry). Their native tongue is Welsh (Cymru), which was spoken by 21% of them as of 2004.
  • The Irish (Éireannaigh). Their native tongue is Irish (Gaeilge), which 1.66 million Irish knew some of as of 2006 (mostly academic, but there are native Irish speakers).
  • The Bretons (Bretoned). Their native tongue is Breton (Brezhoneg), which has about 200,000 speakers.
  • The Scots (Albannaich). One of their native tongues is Scottish Gaelic (Gàidhlig), spoken by 1.2% of them as of 2001.
  • The Manx (Manninee). Their native language was Manx (Gaelg), which went extinct in 1974, but has been revived by reconstructionists.
  • The Cornish (Kernowyon). Their native language was Cornish (Kernewek), which went extinct circa 1891, but has been revived by reconstructionists.
Some other possibilities for modern Celts include certain Iberian groups who maintain a Celtic identity to some degree, like Galicians. Celtic culture was once widespread in Western Europe, so many modern ethnic groups can claim Celtic heritage, including some large groups like the English and French, but they rarely actively identify as Celts nowadays.

For what it's worth, I have a broad view of who is a Celt, and believe that an ethnic group can be both Celtic and something else at the same time. So, for example, the Welsh are Celts even though most speak a Germanic language as their first language because they maintain a Celtic culture. The Scots, on the other hand, are a fusion Germanic-Celtic culture, and their ethnicity can similarly be considered Germanic-Celtic fusion.

Although ethnic identity can be as much an individual thing as a collective thing, the closest I can come to specifying how Celtic groups are goes like this:

  • The Welsh are Celts. Their language is both Celtic and Germanic, and their culture is primarily Celtic.
  • The Irish are Celts. Their language is both Celtic and Germanic, and their culture is primarily Celtic.
  • The Bretons (not everybody in modern Britanny, just those who identify as Bretons primarily) are Celts. Their language is both Celtic and Romance, and their culture is primarily Celtic.
  • The Scots are Celtic and Germanic. Their language is mostly Germanic but sometimes Celtic, and their culture is both Germanic and Celtic.
  • The Manx are Celtic and Germanic. Their language is mostly Germanic, and their culture is both Germanic and Celtic.
  • The Cornish are Celtic and Germanic. Their language is mostly Germanic, and their culture is both Germanic and Celtic.

Thank you for this excellent post.

I refer to my previously proposed list of Celtic Nations:

Ireland

Scotland

Wales

Cornwall

Isle of Man

Cumbria

Brittany

Gallaecia (Galiza / Galicia and N. Portugal / Bracara)

Asturias (possibly joined with Cantabria).
 
Thank you for this excellent post.

I refer to my previously proposed list of Celtic Nations:

Ireland

Scotland

Wales

Cornwall

Isle of Man

Cumbria

Brittany

Gallaecia (Galiza / Galicia and N. Portugal / Bracara)

Asturias (possibly joined with Cantabria).

Re: Cumbrians, Gallaecians, and Asturians, I would say:

  • Cumbrians are principally Germanic, and only speak Germanic really, but have a small remaining Celtic strain in their culture. Any given Cumbrian can be Celtic in addition to Germanic if he/she actively works to reconstruct it or identify as it.
  • Gallaecians are the same, replacing "Germanic" with "Romance."
  • Asturians are the same, although there seems to be less interest and remaining Celtic culture there than in Gallicia (am I right here, Iberians?).
 
Re: Cumbrians, Gallaecians, and Asturians, I would say:

  • Cumbrians are principally Germanic, and only speak Germanic really, but have a small remaining Celtic strain in their culture. Any given Cumbrian can be Celtic in addition to Germanic if he/she actively works to reconstruct it or identify as it.
  • Gallaecians are the same, replacing "Germanic" with "Romance."
  • Asturians are the same, although there seems to be less interest and remaining Celtic culture there than in Gallicia (am I right here, Iberians?).

Asturian is less regionalist (Cantabrian even less) and more "spanish" or "castillian" than Galicia. Anyway, Asturian tradicional folk is as celtic as Galician.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TS14h36N9-E
 
Re: Cumbrians, Gallaecians, and Asturians, I would say:
  • Cumbrians are principally Germanic, and only speak Germanic really, but have a small remaining Celtic strain in their culture. Any given Cumbrian can be Celtic in addition to Germanic if he/she actively works to reconstruct it or identify as it.
  • Gallaecians are the same, replacing "Germanic" with "Romance."
  • Asturians are the same, although there seems to be less interest and remaining Celtic culture there than in Gallicia (am I right here, Iberians?).
The drive to maintain and expand Celticity is strongest in Galicia, followed by Minho and Tras-os-Montes (N. Portugal). Asturias also has strong Celtic traditions, similar to these areas.

In addition, it should be mentioned that there is a movement in Central Portugal (Acel-Trebopala) to revive Lusitanian culture, which is fundamentally very Celtic. The Lusitanian language (para-Celtic or Proto-Celtic, although some do classify it as Celtic), Lekantu (sp?), has been recently partially reconstructed by Acel-Trebopala.
 
In addition, it should be mentioned that there is a movement in Central Portugal (Acel-Trebopala) to revive Lusitanian culture, which is fundamentally very Celtic. The Lusitanian language (para-Celtic or Proto-Celtic, although some do classify it as Celtic), Lekantu (sp?), has been recently partially reconstructed by Acel-Trebopala.

Reconstructionism is always an interesting topic. It would be a stretch to call modern Central Portugal "Celtic" in much of any sense, but I'm convinced of the closeness of Lusitanian language and culture to Celtic.
 
Reconstructionism is always an interesting topic. It would be a stretch to call modern Central Portugal "Celtic" in much of any sense, but I'm convinced of the closeness to Lusitanian language and culture to Celtic.

There is some level of Celticity in N. Central Portugal (Beira Alta).
 
I am diverting this discussion from the "Celts of Iberia" thread, because it is only tangentially related, that thread is too long, and I was surprised to find on that thread that it is actually a contentious issue.

So... do Celts still exist today? If so, who are they? Certain ethnic groups (Welsh, Irish, Bretons, etc.)? Only components of certain ethnic groups (say, the Gaelic-speaking Scots)?

Here are some candidates:

  • The Welsh (Cymry). Their native tongue is Welsh (Cymru), which was spoken by 21% of them as of 2004.
  • The Irish (Éireannaigh). Their native tongue is Irish (Gaeilge), which 1.66 million Irish knew some of as of 2006 (mostly academic, but there are native Irish speakers).
  • The Bretons (Bretoned). Their native tongue is Breton (Brezhoneg), which has about 200,000 speakers.
  • The Scots (Albannaich). One of their native tongues is Scottish Gaelic (Gàidhlig), spoken by 1.2% of them as of 2001.
  • The Manx (Manninee). Their native language was Manx (Gaelg), which went extinct in 1974, but has been revived by reconstructionists.
  • The Cornish (Kernowyon). Their native language was Cornish (Kernewek), which went extinct circa 1891, but has been revived by reconstructionists.
Some other possibilities for modern Celts include certain Iberian groups who maintain a Celtic identity to some degree, like Galicians. Celtic culture was once widespread in Western Europe, so many modern ethnic groups can claim Celtic heritage, including some large groups like the English and French, but they rarely actively identify as Celts nowadays.

For what it's worth, I have a broad view of who is a Celt, and believe that an ethnic group can be both Celtic and something else at the same time. So, for example, the Welsh are Celts even though most speak a Germanic language as their first language because they maintain a Celtic culture. The Scots, on the other hand, are a fusion Germanic-Celtic culture, and their ethnicity can similarly be considered Germanic-Celtic fusion.

Although ethnic identity can be as much an individual thing as a collective thing, the closest I can come to specifying how Celtic groups are goes like this:

  • The Welsh are Celts. Their language is both Celtic and Germanic, and their culture is primarily Celtic.
  • The Irish are Celts. Their language is both Celtic and Germanic, and their culture is primarily Celtic.
  • The Bretons (not everybody in modern Britanny, just those who identify as Bretons primarily) are Celts. Their language is both Celtic and Romance, and their culture is primarily Celtic.
  • The Scots are Celtic and Germanic. Their language is mostly Germanic but sometimes Celtic, and their culture is both Germanic and Celtic.
  • The Manx are Celtic and Germanic. Their language is mostly Germanic, and their culture is both Germanic and Celtic.
  • The Cornish are Celtic and Germanic. Their language is mostly Germanic, and their culture is both Germanic and Celtic.

Let me see...it's a hard question.......Well I have to say..NO. And now let me ask you something Do arabs exist? You're so ridiculous.
 
Let me see...it's a hard question.......Well I have to say..NO. And now let me ask you something Do arabs exist? You're so ridiculous.

...what? :confused:
 
Blah, blah, blah. Not even a good liar. A sorry case.:useless:
 
what have arabs anytinhg to do with Celts ? :bored::bored:

mmps260004.jpg
 
I had assumed this thread would be principally about to what degree Celts from the British Isles and Brittany had been influenced by Germanic and Romance peoples... this group certainly has different interests, though. :disappointed:
 
I guess he must be foaming at the mouth by now.:petrified: This is one for the psychiatric journals.

Should we ring a medical school as regards this little guy. Harvard, Yale, Brown, Stanford, Johns Hopkins... Anyone?
 
I had assumed this thread would be principally about to what degree Celts from the British Isles and Brittany had been influenced by Germanic and Romance peoples... this group certainly has different interests, though. :disappointed:
I don't know. He keeps talking about arabs in all threads related with Celts. Weird. :unsure:
 
Just put him on your ignore list and continue the discussion. The man loves to talk to himself.:useless:
 
I had assumed this thread would be principally about to what degree Celts from the British Isles and Brittany had been influenced by Germanic and Romance peoples... this group certainly has different interests, though. :disappointed:

Why don't we broaden the discussion to include all Atlantic Celts. There is a similar thread on DNA Forums.
 

This thread has been viewed 76627 times.

Back
Top