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kgnju
04-08-11, 20:01
As we know, Nato is an alliance between U.S. and Europe.Nowadays,do Europe really need Nato?If yes,reasons please.If not, reasons please, too.Thank you !
More answers are better!:rolleyes2:

Antigone
05-08-11, 06:39
For what and why do you demand our opinions?

kgnju
05-08-11, 06:50
BTW,many reports said that more and more Americans thought Nato was becoming less relevant and meaningful for U.S.

kgnju
05-08-11, 06:52
For what and why do you demand our opinions?
Because I'm interested in Atlantic relations.

Reinaert
05-08-11, 10:32
Well, to be frank, Europe doesn't need NATO anymore.
But the USA and the UK gave the defensive NATO a twist into an offensive pact.
And that is against the treaty rules.
But Bush and Blair got away with it, because of the never ending Anglo American propaganda.

I guess that is what you want to hear comrade. :17:

kgnju
05-08-11, 14:47
Well, to be frank, Europe doesn't need NATO anymore.
But the USA and the UK gave the defensive NATO a twist into an offensive pact.
And that is against the treaty rules.
But Bush and Blair got away with it, because of the never ending Anglo American propaganda.

I didn't get these information before.Thank you.

kgnju
05-08-11, 14:48
I guess that is what you want to hear comrade. :17:

Is this icon your own portrait?

barbarian
05-08-11, 15:33
As we know, Nato is an alliance between U.S. and Europe.Nowadays,do Europe really need Nato?If yes,reasons please.If not, reasons please, too.Thank you !
More answers are better!:rolleyes2:

i think EU need NATO more than ever, since there would be no word for EU for any kind of political or military formation around the world, if there were no NATO and UN.

in other words, EU needs NATO not for alliance but to limit US dominance. e.g. libia.

Reinaert
05-08-11, 22:13
Barbarian, we don't need NATO for that!

Nato is ruled by some countries. US, UK and some other Bilderberg influenced scum.

There isn't an American dominance anymore either.
They are totally bankrupt!

But some IMF dumbo's are telling us, that some European states like Greece, Spain, Portugal and Ireland have to watch their spendings.. Ridiculous!!

Some banks and other weapon traders were even busy stirring the soup between Greece and Turkey, just to be able to sell them large loans, and then buy a lot of military stuff from other European countries.

If you want to limit US dominance, China will do that in the near future..
They already know what their weakest link is.
I was told that by an former prime minister of The Netherlands, and also a former Navy Commander.

Dive, dive, dive! :17:

Reinaert
05-08-11, 22:15
Is this icon your own portrait?

No.. Looks like Comrade KungFu. :17::76:

CSS.. I guess... :11:

Celtic Secret Service...

Well.. Definitively Celtic, because the Chinese Secret Service isn't a secret anymore.
Wooot!!

Or kgnju... You are working for the CIA, aren't you?
No Chinese will ever get to this forum without a problem!

barbarian
05-08-11, 22:42
Barbarian, we don't need NATO for that!

Nato is ruled by some countries. US, UK and some other Bilderberg influenced scum.

There isn't an American dominance anymore either.
They are totally bankrupt!

But some IMF dumbo's are telling us, that some European states like Greece, Spain, Portugal and Ireland have to watch their spendings.. Ridiculous!!

Some banks and other weapon traders were even busy stirring the soup between Greece and Turkey, just to be able to sell them large loans, and then buy a lot of military stuff from other European countries.

If you want to limit US dominance, China will do that in the near future..
They already know what their weakest link is.
I was told that by an former prime minister of The Netherlands, and also a former Navy Commander.

Dive, dive, dive! :17:

i dont think US is going down in the close future. even now they go on sucking global markets by manuplating them. they still have dollar and for this reason attacking their enemy named as euro.

china is a global power, for this reason cannot have a political force. at least for now. in the future if they try to be a political power then US will use chinas ethnic mix to stir them up.

US just beat USSR, they have some problems but it will take time to collapse. and i dont think things will get better after that.

kgnju
06-08-11, 09:52
Or kgnju... You are working for the CIA, aren't you?
No Chinese will ever get to this forum without a problem!

Don't be so ARROGANT,ok?

Reinaert
06-08-11, 15:05
Don't be so ARROGANT,ok?

Well, getting unfriendly because I guessed the truth?
Arrogant? Look who's talking! :07:

kgnju
06-08-11, 17:07
Well, getting unfriendly because I guessed the truth?
Arrogant? Look who's talking! :07:
WHO???
Sorry,I wouldn't quarrel with you and you will never get the truth,Mr. Reinaert.

kgnju
06-08-11, 17:32
No.. Looks like Comrade KungFu. :17::76:

CSS.. I guess... :11:

Celtic Secret Service...

Well.. Definitively Celtic, because the Chinese Secret Service isn't a secret anymore.
Wooot!!

Or kgnju... You are working for the CIA, aren't you?
No Chinese will ever get to this forum without a problem!
I AM Chinese,Mr. Reinaert.These words of you offended me!So I warn you.
This forum is international and I am interested in European affairs so I came here.Are you racist?

Mzungu mchagga
06-08-11, 18:07
kgnju, please just ignore Reinaert! Everybody in this forum has been offended by Reinaert at the one or other point. Usually we don't talk to him unless he adresses someone directly. And he doesn't even realize it! My apologies to you for him!

Anton, Bear's den
06-08-11, 23:52
As we know, Nato is an alliance between U.S. and Europe.Nowadays,do Europe really need Nato?If yes,reasons please.If not, reasons please, too.Thank you !
More answers are better!:rolleyes2:

Recently, the whole truth about NATO explained American defense secretary Robert Gates in the last speech before retirement

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jun/10/nato-dismal-future-pentagon-chief
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/ct-oped-0619-chapman-20110619,0,148245.column
http://www.amconmag.com/blog/2011/06/16/when-america-comes-home/

Some parts:

Gates predicted a Nato consigned to "military irrelevance" in a "dim if not dismal" future unless allies stepped up to the plate.

"If current trends in the decline of European defence capabilities are not halted and reversed, future US political leaders - those for whom the cold war was not the formative experience that it was for me - may not consider the return on America's investment in Nato worth the cost," Gates, a former CIA chief, warned.

Nato had degenerated into a "two-tiered" alliance of those willing to wage war and those only interested in "talking" and peacekeeping, he fumed in his bluntest warning to the Europeans in nearly five years as the Pentagon head.

Washington's waning commitment to European security could spell the death of the alliance, he said. The speech was laced with exasperation with and contempt for European defence spending cuts, inefficiencies, and botched planning.

The Libya mission was a case in point, Gates said, pointing out that the Anglo-French-led campaign was running out of munitions just weeks into operations against an insubstantial foe. The US had again had to come to the rescue of the Europeans in a campaign on Europe's shores and deemed to be of vital interest to the Europeans, he complained.

"The mightiest military alliance in history is only 11 weeks into an operation against a poorly armed regime in a sparsely populated country. Yet many allies are beginning to run short of munitions, requiring the US, once more, to make up the difference."

In March, all 28 Nato members had voted for the Libya mission, he said. "Less than half have participated, and fewer than a third have been willing to participate in the strike mission … Many of those allies sitting on the sidelines do so not because they do not want to participate, but simply because they can't. The military capabilities simply aren't there."

Away from the specifics of the current operations in Libya and Afghanistan, Gates charged Europe's leaders with lacking the political will to sustain Nato, complained bitterly about unending defence budget cuts, but conceded that the reduction in spending was probably irreversible.

The US share of Nato military spending had soared to 75%, much more than during the cold war heyday when Washington maintained hundreds of thousands of US troops across Europe, he said. The US public would not stand for this much longer.
Congress would rebel against spending "increasingly precious funds on behalf of nations apparently willing and eager for American taxpayers to assume the growing security burden left by reductions in European defence budgets", he said.

"In the past, I've worried openly about Nato turning into a two-tiered alliance, between members who specialise in 'soft' humanitarian, development, peacekeeping, and talking tasks, and those conducting the 'hard' combat missions ... This is no longer a hypothetical worry. We are there today. And it is unacceptable."


In brief - Americans already have not huge desires to pay for European security :thinking:
So time for dirty plans of Evil Empire :laughing: :belial::flame::petrified:

Reinaert
07-08-11, 09:33
Haha.. Nice try..

My point is, how can someone from China write on this forum, while in China itself all internet is government controlled?

Why should I believe that he is not some agent provocateur?

Or a man embedded in the Chinese political system, of someone from the CIA?
Yeah, warn me eeh? I asked you something!

---------

But back to the thread.

Anton mentioned the "attack" on Libya, started by (oh wonder) France.
Sarkozy is known to be a CIA and MOSSAD agent.
France was used by the US and NATO to get a crowbar between the door over there.
And now we get the old silly game again..
Europe doesn't have enough ammo...
My oh my...

Well, at least they managed to get thousands of Chinese out of Libya.

Because that's the problem.
China is a dictatorship, that has nothing to do with communism.
They are looting the worlds materials, just like the US.

Reinaert
07-08-11, 09:37
I AM Chinese,Mr. Reinaert.These words of you offended me!So I warn you.
This forum is international and I am interested in European affairs so I came here.Are you racist?

You may be Chinese, but my point is, you can't write from the Peoples Republic of China, without the knowledge of the totalitarian government over there. So?
And come off your high horse.
Racist? You maybe.
I simply asked some questions.

And yes, this is a European forum.
We mind our own business.
And we don't like to be interrogated!

ultralars
07-08-11, 10:21
well Nato was created to keep peace, and in that regard, no it is still required.

Reinaert
07-08-11, 11:46
No, NATO was created as an instrument of the USA to control Europe.
And they still do, the old game of divide and rule.
You can read more about this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gladio

It even had consequences for Norway I guess.
Think of what happened lately.
There are similarities with what Breivik did.

cycle
07-08-11, 15:50
Nato was the Wests answer to the Soviet Block.
Today Nato only serves the purpose of involving Europe in American wars.

LeBrok
07-08-11, 19:00
Keep in mind that NATO encompasses countries similar in political and economic nature. It is a natural thing that countries with similar interests will belong to one military alliance. Even if there are dominant countries in this block, the weak will benefit too.
If I'm right about a nature of the beast, expect Russia in NATO in about 10-20 years. Russia already do military exercises with NATO block.
Russia will need NATO to feel safer when new superpowers in Asia exert more influence in the future.

Now, it seams that US has run out of money. It is in no position to effort big and expensive army, nor continue or start new wars. Soon US Arm Forces will be trimmed by half, and many foreign bases closed. It will be a perfect time for all European members to step up, spend more money, voice their opinions and directions, and feel more important too.

Same for Canada. It was a nice thing, for last 100 years, to be shielded by US and not to spend much for military during peace times. Canada survived recession in better shape than most NATO members. It's time for Canada to help more, spend more, to show that we are not free loaders only, but proud and responsible member.

Reinaert
07-08-11, 23:12
Now, it seems that US has run out of money. It is in no position to effort big and expensive army, nor continue or start new wars. Soon US Arm Forces will be trimmed by half, and many foreign bases closed. It will be a perfect time for all European members to step up, spend more money, voice their opinions and directions, and feel more important too.

Same for Canada. It was a nice thing, for last 100 years, to be shielded by US and not to spend much for military during peace times. Canada survived recession in better shape than most NATO members. It's time for Canada to help more, spend more, to show that we are not free loaders only, but proud and responsible member.

Dream on!

What do you expect in Canada?
Chinese in kayaks, infiltrating Canucky territory?

Elias2
08-08-11, 03:40
I can see the EU dropping out of NATO and starting their own military alliance at some point int he future.

iapetoc
08-08-11, 11:39
NATO is an alliance with tremendous military power but small political power,

for example if Europe was to become the 3rd pole, then probably the case of Libya and Syria (modern civil wars) would be ended far before the massacres,
the problem is that NATO is still a military, heavy, slow, alliance that is unwanted in many areas,

a possible 2-3 headed NATO would interesting,
for example syria, a clear EU alliance would be more effective than a US slow react NAto,
a handling crisis Eu-army stronger than Fortex is a must, an army of 40-60 0000 man that has no connection with NATO, but with EU only is a must,
Nato is strong to dismiss it, and no need for it, but a European army for handling crisis, obeying only in EU parliament is a must,

Reinaert
09-08-11, 18:56
We have no business with Syria, Libya, Iraq or Afghanistan.

All this unrest, or civil uprising, war or whatsoever is probably the product of propaganda and disinformation in the western media.
And I don't want to give a clue again what is behind it all. Find that out for yourself.

European Defense Organization.. OK.
But with the obligation to defend only their own members, on their own territory.

The attack on Iraq and Afghanistan was plain stupid.
It had nothing to do with the NATO treaty!
The intervention in Libya is also illegal according to the NATO treaty!

But of course, Britain, the USA, and also France have a long tradition of interfering in Africa!
Who cares!

But not under NATO flag!

iapetoc
10-08-11, 10:48
We have no business with Syria, Libya, Iraq or Afghanistan.

All this unrest, or civil uprising, war or whatsoever is probably the product of propaganda and disinformation in the western media.
And I don't want to give a clue again what is behind it all. Find that out for yourself.

European Defense Organization.. OK.
But with the obligation to defend only their own members, on their own territory.

The attack on Iraq and Afghanistan was plain stupid.
It had nothing to do with the NATO treaty!
The intervention in Libya is also illegal according to the NATO treaty!

But of course, Britain, the USA, and also France have a long tradition of interfering in Africa!
Who cares!

But not under NATO flag!


I agree with european defend organization,
I understand what you mean, I also believe that libya and syria are lands not to invade or to interfering,
but since arabic world does not have a defending organization, a possible agrreement with majority of arabic world, is must,
besides history has proven that selling guns in peculiar dictators, creates warm days,
so I do not mention europe to 'wear' NAto shoes, but Europe to take over a more stability and democratic (not 40 years presidents) action, always in agreement with Arabic world,
besides the case of Iraq, has proven to have destroy some European approaches, while some new Nato members decide to send strong forces, following Nato orders, and not Europe's concern,