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View Full Version : old DNA samples (Y-DNA/mtDNA) 500 BC to 1500 AD



MarTyro
06-08-11, 16:02
At isogg there is a good overview of DNA haplotypes extracted from ancient remains. However it seems that are very few samples to have enough data for ancient distribution maps or even build up evidence of old cultures and their typical haplotypes. Is so much coming only from the modern samples and calculating back?
AFAIK it is much more easy to extract old mtDNA than Y-DNA.

When you look at igenea they claim that Germanic and Celtic cadaver where analized and the profile of each discovered. They claim similiar for other ancient Tribes: "The ancient tribe is determined by the haplogroup and the genetic profile. The result approximately refers to the period from 900 BC to 900 AD.". Where do they have their ancient samples from?

For genealogists it would be very interesting having european samples from many graves 500 BC to 1500 AD (from Greeks over Romans until the late Middle Age). Even better if from some known persons with many descendants (Kings, nobles, healthy families, etc.).
I'm looking for other useful information/links. Thank you.

sparkey
06-08-11, 23:36
Is so much coming only from the modern samples and calculating back?

Yep


AFAIK it is much more easy to extract old mtDNA than Y-DNA.

Yep


When you look at igenea they claim that Germanic and Celtic cadaver where analized and the profile of each discovered. They claim similiar for other ancient Tribes: "The ancient tribe is determined by the haplogroup and the genetic profile. The result approximately refers to the period from 900 BC to 900 AD.". Where do they have their ancient samples from?

iGENEA isn't the most trusted source, to be clear. See Dienekes (http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2008/10/igenea-wins-award.html). I'm actually not sure what they're referring to, maybe stuff like the Töpf tests of Anglo-Saxons? But those were just mtDNA.


For genealogists it would be very interesting having european samples from many graves 500 BC to 1500 AD (from Greeks over Romans until the late Middle Age). Even better if from some known persons with many descendants (Kings, nobles, healthy families, etc.).
I'm looking for other useful information/links. Thank you.

My favorite summary of scholarly findings is from Jean Manco here (http://www.buildinghistory.org/distantpast/ancientdna.shtml).

zanipolo
07-08-11, 00:11
My favorite summary of scholarly findings is from Jean Manco here (http://www.buildinghistory.org/distantpast/ancientdna.shtml).


while being a good site, they still have their charts refferring to modern nations, still is the confusion with a lot of sites and leads to controversy.

Eupedia falls in the same type. I would like to see a "eupedia" version with names like assrian, thracian, celtic, nordic, lombardi, illyric, epirote etc etc

MarTyro
07-08-11, 01:17
iGENEA isn't the most trusted source, to be clear. See Dienekes. I'm actually not sure what they're referring to, maybe stuff like the Töpf tests of Anglo-Saxons? But those were just mtDNA.

My favorite summary of scholarly findings is from Jean Manco here.
Dienekes is a very interesting site. Now I read more and more about iGENEA "inventing" ancient DNA-references (see Tutenkamun, Egypt) to get media attention and fish clients that in classic genealogy maybe search for ancestry like Carl the Great or Attila. One time even I found a gen.tree line that was going back to old greeks and persians; :startled: - ridiculous.
The Ancient Western Eurasian DNA list ist very interesting and here you can see clearly that ancient Y-DNA data is strongly missed, even in medieval samples.
Thank for adding this info.

Savant
17-02-12, 15:47
Dienekes is that last person who needs to be casting aspersions about "inventing" anything.