Lies about Rhouda et al. 2006 study and MtDna in Spain

[luis77]

Very often in this forum and elsewhere, a few people try to demonstrate that there si no L mtDna haplogroups in Spain by quoting a study from Rhouda et al. 2006.

"Human mitochondrial DNA as a molecular tool for population studies; the case of North Morocco", Rhouda et al. 2006.

Indeed, it is true that in this study Rhouda reports 686 individuals from Spain and no frequency for L haplogroups. However Rhouda reports that these samples of 686 Spaniards come from another study from Dahmany at al. 2006:

"Mitochondrial lineages distribution in the Spanish population: anticipating association studies", Dahmany at al. 2006

http://www.google.fr/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CC8QFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.analesranf.com%2Findex.php%2F aranf%2Farticle%2Fview%2F143%2F176&ei=Aw9hTsi2Ao-WOvSRhDU&usg=AFQjCNFN40__ExRiIBRfLFjL5abvH-fdoQ

And if we look at this original study, we can read that not only these 686 samples come from only 2 regions (Zaragoza and Madrid) and NOT from whole Spain BUT that the authors grouped ALL non caucasian haplogroups in a "Others" category which represents 2.8% in these 2 regions:

"...haplogroups L (African), M (Asian) and those that we could not ascribe to any of the known Caucasian haplogroups were grouped as others (O)"

So thats why Rhouda et al. 2006 reports no L haplogroups in his study for these 686 Spaniards but an "Others" category ... which in fact contains these L haplogroups...

[sparkey]

So... 19/686 people were L, M, or something else. I doubt it was a "lie," more likely an oversight. Now, this tells us what? What is the frequency of L in Morocco? How about France?

[Knovas]

It tells us nothing but the fact this sick individual is trying desperately to brown Spaniards giving, as usual, only half of the truth.

A visit to the psychiatrist wouldn't be a bad thing.

[Wilhelm2]

This person is lying for some strange reason. It's not 19/686, it's 0/686 for L and M, and it is perfectly visible on the study as you can see in the table below, plus in the original study the Other for Spain is 2.8% but for Europe is 7.6% :


http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/435/mtdna.png


Plus the Other for Spain is 2.8% but for Europe is 7.6%

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/8696/dnamr.png



And btw people from Madrid come from all parts of Spain, so yes it is representative, and also because it is the biggest sample so far.

[Wilhelm2]

So... 19/686 people were L, M, or something else. I doubt it was a "lie," more likely an oversight. Now, this tells us what? What is the frequency of L in Morocco? How about France?

In France :

Hérault (Languedoc) 2.4 %
Rhône (Lyonnais) 4.4 %
Vendée and Vienne (Poitou) 0.8 %
Calvados and Seine-Maritime (Normandy) 1.8 %
Somme (Picardie) 1.3 %
France Miscellanea 0.6 %
Scotland 0.1 %
England 0.7 %
Great Britain 0.9 %
North-Germany and Denmark 0.7 %

[Drac]

Very often in this forum and elsewhere, a few people try to demonstrate that there si no L mtDna haplogroups in Spain by quoting a study from Rhouda et al. 2006.

"Human mitochondrial DNA as a molecular tool for population studies; the case of North Morocco", Rhouda et al. 2006.

Indeed, it is true that in this study Rhouda reports 686 individuals from Spain and no frequency for L haplogroups. However Rhouda reports that these samples of 686 Spaniards come from another study from Dahmany at al. 2006:

"Mitochondrial lineages distribution in the Spanish population: anticipating association studies", Dahmany at al. 2006

http://www.google.fr/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CC8QFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.analesranf.com%2Findex.php%2F aranf%2Farticle%2Fview%2F143%2F176&ei=Aw9hTsi2Ao-WOvSRhDU&usg=AFQjCNFN40__ExRiIBRfLFjL5abvH-fdoQ

And if we look at this original study, we can read that not only these 686 samples come from only 2 regions (Zaragoza and Madrid) and NOT from whole Spain BUT that the authors grouped ALL non caucasian haplogroups in a "Others" category which represents 2.8% in these 2 regions:

"...haplogroups L (African), M (Asian) and those that we could not ascribe to any of the known Caucasian haplogroups were grouped as others (O)"

So thats why Rhouda et al. 2006 reports no L haplogroups in his study for these 686 Spaniards but an "Others" category ... which in fact contains these L haplogroups...

You are of course simply assuming that the "O" must necessarily include L sequences in the case of that 686 Spanish sample, which is not necessarily the case, as your very own quote shows that they are lumping M and other markers which they (at the time) could not attribute to a "Caucasian" population. Anyone in his right mind will trust Rhouda et al. 2006 statement of ZERO L sequences in the 686 sample over you, since no less than 4 of its co-authors (Eduardo Ruiz-Pesini, Julio Montoya, Carmen Diez Sanchez and Manuel J. Lopez Perez) are the very same co-authors of the Dahmany at al. 2006 paper that you are trying to use in your never-ending dishonest quest to "Africanize" Spaniards as much as possible.

[Maciamo]

I have had enough of Iberians complaining about their African admixtures. The thread is closed and anyone starting a similar topic will be banned.