PDA

View Full Version : Belgium Crisis and The Netherlands, what now?



DVDK
08-09-11, 00:02
So we all know that Belgium has quite of a problem right now, after more then 14 months of not having any government they still aren't even close to any serious discussion about the forming of a government, and it looks like they aren't going to for a long time.

From what i know is that basically the Flemish (Dutch speaking Belgiums) and the Walloons (French speaking Belgiums) want to split from eachother, the party who won (N-VA) supports that.

Do you think Flanders will join The Netherlands? It's the same language and it used to be one country like 200 years ago.
For me that sounds like the only solution to the problems between the Flemish and the Walloons.

Please vote.

Maciamo
08-09-11, 08:35
The chances of Belgium splitting any time soon are actually extremely low. You need to know the intricacies of the Belgian system and the feelings of the population to understand that. Only a minority of Flemings (perhaps 30% of them) want independence, and none want to join the Netherlands. If matters changed in the future, and Belgium did split in 10, 20 or 30 years from now (much more likely), Flanders would be on its own, but there is a good chance that Wallonia would join France.

Although Walloons prefer a united Belgium than joining France, few would be completely opposed to becoming the 96th French d├ępartement (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Departments_of_France). French departments are numbered alphabetically, except Overeses Departments which are numbered from 971 to 976. France even left a space for Wallonia at #96 between #95 (Val d'Oise) and 971 (Guadeloupe). I don't think it is just a coincidence. Many French politicians have already announced that they would welcome Wallonia as part of France, and most French people have no objection.

The eternal problem is Brussels. An originally Flemish city turned Francophone, the seat of the EU and NATO, this bilingual federal state could become a sort of European Capital District, the EU's version of Washington DC. In any case neither the Flemings nor the Walloons will ever agree to let it go to the other side, which is basically why Belgium is not likely to split. Nobody can afford to lose Brussels financially. The Flemish claim that they are paying for the Walloons' social security, but at present the only region that is really giving its tax money away to the two others is Brussels.

Something that could work out is an independent Flanders, and an independent Wallonia-Brussels state. If it all came down to a democratic vote, French speaking Belgians would choose this alternative before joining France or letting Brussels on its own. Ironically it is Flanders that would never accept an independent Wallonia-Brussels.

Cimmerianbloke
08-10-11, 05:27
Separatist Flemish politicians repeated they want an independent Flanders, the Netherlands thing is not relevant. As for Wallonia, it's a different question. Most people would be reluctant to become French, but on a purely practical point of view, it would be an easy fix, immediate recognition of international bodies, automatic NATO, EU, UN memberships, and cultural ties to France have always been there (where I was born, people watch French TV channels rather than the dull national RTBF). I used to have Maciamo's view on Belgium's future, but as the events unfold across Europe, the EU house is on fire and nobody has the fire brigade number, I would today bet money that Flanders will be independent before the end of the decade.

Maciamo
08-10-11, 09:07
Separatist Flemish politicians repeated they want an independent Flanders, the Netherlands thing is not relevant. As for Wallonia, it's a different question. Most people would be reluctant to become French, but on a purely practical point of view, it would be an easy fix, immediate recognition of international bodies, automatic NATO, EU, UN memberships, and cultural ties to France have always been there (where I was born, people watch French TV channels rather than the dull national RTBF).

International recognition and NATO, EU, UN memberships wouldn't be an issue if the country split. The memberships would be automatically transferred to the new entities.


I used to have Maciamo's view on Belgium's future, but as the events unfold across Europe, the EU house is on fire and nobody has the fire brigade number, I would today bet money that Flanders will be independent before the end of the decade.

I don't see how the current financial crisis would change anything in the way the people see themselves as a nation, with a shared history and culture, people with friends and relatives across the linguistic border, and companies that have always worked at a Belgian level.

Yetos
08-10-11, 09:47
Democracy has no limits, and leads not to dead ends,

a time of serious and good discuss and debates, with a 2 referendum dates,

1 referendum to ask people choice, and 1 referendum after 10-20 years if people want old status,

to create a referendum you push to limits the good try of informing people.


Inform well the people and let them decide,

ACourvoisier
30-10-11, 23:03
Re-elections of course.

I AM SORRY, BUT I THINK THAT A QUIZ WITH 6 VOTES IS NOT VERRY OBJECTIVE. AND I'D LIKE TO CREATE A NEW QUIZ, SORRY FOR WRITING THIS HERE, BUT I CANNOT WRITE TO ADMINISTRATOR, AND I NEED "A SCORE OF 95": WHAT IS THIS ?!?:67:

ACourvoisier
30-10-11, 23:48
Ok, it took a few times since hundred points to let me vote, so I did not understand.

Cimmerianbloke
22-11-11, 05:20
Belgium has come to a new standstill last night, the 6 parties involved in talks to form a government could not agree on finding a common framework. A political talk-show on popular radio channel BEL-RTL turned sour, as politicians from different parties kept accusing others for coming to a dead end. Very much kindergarten stuff, really. The budget for 2012 risks to be botched at best, not voted at worst. The credit rating of the country is now at risk of being downgraded because of the political mess. Democracy has been stretched to its limits in Belgium. What will come next? clever the one who could come with the right answer...

Cimmerianbloke
26-11-11, 03:33
http://www.lalibre.be/economie/actualite/article/702492/standard-and-poor-s-degrade-la-note-de-la-belgique-de-aa-a-aa.html

Belgium's rating has been downgraded today, the interest rate for Belgian borrowings was up to 6% the same evening. The house is burning, and no sign of a government anytime soon...

Maciamo
18-12-11, 11:35
I closed the poll. It looks like I am the only one who believed that a government could be formed eventually, without requiring new elections.