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View Full Version : Autosomal map : Northwest European admixture (from Dodecad)



Maciamo
21-09-11, 16:58
I renamed the West European admixture 'Northwest European' because it is as northern as it is western, if not more. Here is the distribution map.

Note the hotspots in the Caucasus (Kumyks, Dargins, Lezgins). It would be nice to have data for other Caucasian populations, especially the Ossetians, the Chechens and the Nogays.

http://www.eupedia.com/images/content/Northwest-European-admixture.gif

sparkey
21-09-11, 17:50
I renamed the West European admixture 'Northwest European' because it is as northern as it is western, if not more. Here is the distribution map.

I think that the name change is appropriate given the distribution. It looks like it's almost a combination of the North Atlantic and Northern European (and maybe also West European) components in Eurogenes, as we see that there's no division of Britain.

Knovas
21-09-11, 18:07
I agree it includes North Atlantic and Northern European, and sure some plain West European but at very low levels in comparison. The West European matches better a Basque cluster, although not perfectly (see for example DOD133 -FR1) since most times Dodecad tools read this ancestry as Mediterranean.

Where did you get that Southwest Iberian side is between 20-30%? I have all Portuguese and Spanish participants listed, and the less scorer has 36.7%...he probably isn't from that region since it also has 2.7% East European (= 39.4%; other's score less in total). None of the Behar samples has less than 30% too, and between the IBS sample there are probably Canarians because the African ancestry in some cases is not usual between mainland Spaniards.

Alan
21-09-11, 18:37
Maciamo a good work but I have a question. Why did you made the distribution on the West Anatolian coast a bit higher as the Rest. From my knowledge and what Dodecad shows, there ís neither among Behar Turks more West European as among Xings Iraqi Kurds nor among western coastal Turks more than among Kurds_D. In fact even the Turkish_D (Dodecad), who are largely West Anatolian (one of them even originally from Balkan) have less West European than Kurds_D which samples are all from Iraqi and Iranian Kurds.

This being just a small thing I wanted to share. Overall the map is very realistic.

Goga
21-09-11, 18:57
Thank you. Great job!

Maciamo
21-09-11, 19:33
Maciamo a good work but I have a question. Why did you made the distribution on the West Anatolian coast a bit higher as the Rest. From my knowledge and what Dodecad shows, there ís neither among Behar Turks more West European as among Xings Iraqi Kurds nor among western coastal Turks more than among Kurds_D. In fact even the Turkish_D (Dodecad), who are largely West Anatolian (one of them even originally from Balkan) have less West European than Kurds_D which samples are all from Iraqi and Iranian Kurds.

This being just a small thing I wanted to share. Overall the map is very realistic.

In the absence of more specific regional data I have no choice but to guess these things based on Y-haplogroup frequencies.

Taranis
21-09-11, 20:20
If I go by the Y-Haplogroup frequencies (which by itself, of course, is a dicy business in respect for autosomal DNA), one gets the impression that this so-called 'Northwest European' admixture corresponds to the following Y-Haplogroups:

- R1b
- I1

Conversely, the following Haplogroups are apparently not part of this admixture:
- I2a
- E1b

(I'm undecided about a few other Haplogroups)

But this is very interesting because these admixtures are just exactly that, admixtures, and go through lineages of different ages.

Wilhelm
21-09-11, 23:21
There is not a single iberian under 37%, so the 20-30% strip in the south is bullshit.

Knovas
21-09-11, 23:54
I asked before from where it comes this from...

Cambrius (The Red)
21-09-11, 23:56
There is not a single iberian under 36%, so the 20-30% strip in the south is bullshit.

Shouldn't East European be included as well?

Wilhelm
21-09-11, 23:58
Also the Galicians (n= 4) average 41.8% and Catalans (n=2) 42.3%, they should be in the 40-50% range.

Cambrius (The Red)
22-09-11, 00:00
There is not a single iberian under 36%, so the 20-30% strip in the south is bullshit.

The one guy I know from far southern Portugal is close to 38%.

Knovas
22-09-11, 00:02
I think the shade is okay, since there are individuals who have more than 40% due to the East European component. Considering West European alone, for an average, it's not bad.

Cambrius (The Red)
22-09-11, 00:06
It's just hard to differentiate some of the darker shades.

Cambrius (The Red)
22-09-11, 00:08
Also the Galicians (n= 4) average 41.8% and Catalans (n=2) 42.3%, they should be in the 40-50% range.

Same with N. Portugal (40-50% range).

Knovas
22-09-11, 00:21
Note that, for the same reason, Basques and French should be in the 50-60% range (52%). I think the proportion of the map is correct (except in Southwestern Iberia), and the problem is the way ranges are listed.

Wilhelm
22-09-11, 00:24
Note that, for the same reason, Basques and French should be in the 50-60% range (52%).
They are already.

Knovas
22-09-11, 00:36
Oh, yes, they are. It's a bit confusing. So, ¿Is there really any 40-50% shade in the map? I don't see it.

Milovan
22-09-11, 03:35
I'm sure this is pure R1b and I'm sure the eastern european autosomes will correspond to R1a.
The I1 speculated to be northwestern european in this map, is already shown on the mediterranean autosomal map, just look at all the mediterranean in scandinavia then look at I1 distribution.

Look at the y-dna tree hap R (both R1a and R1b) is far away from I or IJ.
By the way, the dodecad project used to cluster both "northwestern european" and "northeastern european" together as one group that was called "north european". I knew that "north european" was hap R (aryan) out of a hunch I guess and I had my suspicions confirmed when they split "north european" into east and west groups, this to me was obviously the split of R1a and R1b.
They clustered together at first because they are very similar, they are similar because they have the same tribal (y-dna) root which is hap R.

julia90
22-09-11, 18:55
i think the northwestern admixture should be divided in two groups... one proper north western (connected with celtic people) and another scandinavian, that should peak in southern sweden and denmark.

Swedish aren't as celtic as irish, and irish aren't as scandinavian as swedish.
It's obvious

Knovas
22-09-11, 18:59
Eurogenes did sometimes what you say Julia. In some aspects is better to check this project to get a better idea.

Armin Van Buuren
09-02-12, 18:07
Sardinians have more Northwest European admixture than Tuscans??? Hahaha. The map's name should be renamed West Mediterranean / Atlantic admixture map.

silkyslovanbojkovsky
20-08-13, 20:23
I am curious as to why the British Isles and Germanic Scandanvia are listed as Northwestern European and as being Autosomally similar to eachother when I would think they are still quite a bit different. A welsh guy I would think would be significantly different autosomally when compared to a Swedesh guy, considereing Scandanavia doesn't have any where as high a proportion of R1b as Wales and Ireland, and their lack of I1 when compared to the Nordic countries.