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Taranis
22-09-11, 01:06
The Nuristani people are an obscure ethnic group in northeastern Afghanistan which is, as I will explain, however very interesting from the bigger perspective:

Up until the late 19th century, the region of Nuristan was refered to as 'Kafiristan' (from the Arabic word for 'heathen' or 'infidel'), due to the fact that the population of this area were not Muslims, but practiced a polytheistic religion. In the late 19th century, they were forcibly converted to Islam by the Emir of Afghanistan and the region was renamed.

The really interesting part is the linguistic perspective: the Nuristani languages essentially represent their own separate third branch of the Indo-Iranic languages, along with the Iranic and the Indic (or Indo-Aryan) languages.

One interesting aspect is that amongst the Nuristanis, features like light hair and blue eyes are apparently more common:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4d/Girl_in_a_Kabul_orphanage%2C_01-07-2002.jpg/200px-Girl_in_a_Kabul_orphanage%2C_01-07-2002.jpg

So, I was going to ask if there is anybody who knows if there has been any studies on Nuristani DNA, because this might be very interesting to take a look at, especially also in regard for trace the origin of the Indo-European languages.

Cobol19
22-09-11, 01:18
I'm not aware of any studies on them, though if you're looking for Y-DNA/mtDNA frequencies of other similar populations to them, the closest ones that have similar looks are the Kalash and Burusho.

Bodin
22-09-11, 03:51
I also eagerly await any studies of North Afganistan or Tajikistan population - especialy Pamir aeria - when I was there I noticed a lot of European features , and lot of peoples with blond hair and light eyes

Goga
22-09-11, 04:25
I also eagerly await any studies of North Afganistan or Tajikistan population - especialy Pamir aeria - when I was there I noticed a lot of European features , and lot of peoples with blond hair and light eyes
http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/4000/pashtuns.jpg

"The origin of the Pashtuns(Pathans)":
http://rjgg.org/index.php/RJGG/article/view/106/121

Goga
22-09-11, 04:32
Kalash (Nuristan population of north Pakistan next to Nuristan of northeast Afghanistan):

L3a - 22.7%
H1* - 20.5%
R1a - 18.2%
G - 18.2%
J2 - 9.1%
R* - 6.8%
R1* - 2.3%
L* - 2.3%

http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v15/n1/full/5201726a.html

Taranis
22-09-11, 12:22
It is definitely very interesting that along with R1a, we also find fairly high concentrations of G and J2, both in the Pashtuns and the Kalash.

Cobol19
22-09-11, 12:44
It is definitely very interesting that along with R1a, we also find fairly high concentrations of G and J2, both in the Pashtuns and the Kalash.

I think the J2 and G2 are a product of Neolithic migration from the Near East, while some R1a1a is indeed of Indo-European origin, and the rest of the lineages are natives to the areas they live in or nearby.

Taranis
22-09-11, 16:17
I think the J2 and G2 are a product of Neolithic migration from the Near East, while some R1a1a is indeed of Indo-European origin, and the rest of the lineages are natives to the areas they live in or nearby.

What is unfortunate is that there is no further breakdown of G2 into subclades. Maciamo suggested recently that at least some of the subclades of G2 may be associated with Indo-European migrations (at least in Europe), so it would be interesting to know what subclades of G2 are found in Afghanistan.

Cobol19
22-09-11, 17:13
What is unfortunate is that there is no further breakdown of G2 into subclades. Maciamo suggested recently that at least some of the subclades of G2 may be associated with Indo-European migrations (at least in Europe), so it would be interesting to know what subclades of G2 are found in Afghanistan.

G2a in Europe seems Neolithic if we're going by the Ancient DNA found so far, whether the Indo-Europeans brought more G2a with them later on or not I don't know, but it seems plausible that this same G2 among these populations is also Neolithic (Along with J2), possibly connected to the spread of farming out of the Near East.

Taranis
22-09-11, 18:38
G2a in Europe seems Neolithic if we're going by the Ancient DNA found so far, whether the Indo-Europeans brought more G2a with them later on or not I don't know, but it seems plausible that this same G2 among these populations is also Neolithic (Along with J2), possibly connected to the spread of farming out of the Near East.

I found Maciamo's post again, he suggested this here (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?26763-Poll-What-will-Ötzi-s-Y-DNA-haplogroup-be&p=380559&viewfull=1#post380559). The point however that Afghan G2 is indeed Neolithic is the fact that R1b very rare.

As for J2, the jury is still out on that one. It hasn't been found in any Neolithic sites from Europe yet (though admittedly, the possibility is still there it was in Italy or the Balkans in the Neolithic). In any case, there is no correlation between G2a and J2 in Europe.

Cobol19
22-09-11, 19:03
I found Maciamo's post again, he suggested this here (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?26763-Poll-What-will-%C3%96tzi-s-Y-DNA-haplogroup-be&p=380559&viewfull=1#post380559). The point however that Afghan G2 is indeed Neolithic is the fact that R1b very rare.

As for J2, the jury is still out on that one. It hasn't been found in any Neolithic sites from Europe yet (though admittedly, the possibility is still there it was in Italy or the Balkans in the Neolithic). In any case, there is no correlation between G2a and J2 in Europe.

Yes, the jury is still out on J2, R1b, and other lineages that are not found in ancient DNA Neolithic sites in Europe, as of now only G2a is the sure thing Neolithic marker, I think haplogroup I* was found too but that seems native anyways.

Bodin
23-09-11, 01:37
Kalash (Nuristan population of north Pakistan next to Nuristan of northeast Afghanistan):

L3a - 22.7%
H1* - 20.5%
R1a - 18.2%
G - 18.2%
J2 - 9.1%
R* - 6.8%
R1* - 2.3%
L* - 2.3%

http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v15/n1/full/5201726a.html
Thanks for posting data , I also found researches that shows 0,5% of I* amongs Pashtuns - it is unsignificant levels , but they are one of rare nations outside Europe that have I* at all , and this need to mean something . I would also like to see Haplogroup distribution of Sarban tribe of Pashtuns

Alan
23-09-11, 02:36
It is definitely very interesting that along with R1a, we also find fairly high concentrations of G and J2, both in the Pashtuns and the Kalash.

yes definitely and also among Nuristani. Those which usually are connected with the real Aryans of Central Asia have ironically less R1a1a and more J2, L, R2a, G.

Alan
23-09-11, 02:39
G2a in Europe seems Neolithic if we're going by the Ancient DNA found so far, whether the Indo-Europeans brought more G2a with them later on or not I don't know, but it seems plausible that this same G2 among these populations is also Neolithic (Along with J2), possibly connected to the spread of farming out of the Near East.

Most of the neolthic G lineages in Europe were G2a4 or G2a5 however G2a3 might have come with Indo Europeans. It cant be a coincidence that those groups with more G, R2a, L, J2 have a more special look to them while groups with more than 50% R1a1a look native and not much special. R1a1a is Indo European definitely no doubt but it is very interesting that all Nuristani groups(another Indo-Iranian branch) have strong J2, G, L, R2a components beside the usual R1a1a.

Cobol19
23-09-11, 03:06
yes definitely and also among Nuristani. Those which usually are connected with the real Aryans of Central Asia have ironically less R1a1a and more J2, L, R2a, G.

Not if you include the Pashtuns and Tajiks, and in that respect, R1a1a just simply dominates way too much among them in Central Asia.


Most of the neolthic G lineages in Europe were G2a4 or G2a5 however G2a3 might have come with Indo Europeans.

G2a3 was actually found in a Neolithic site in Europe:

http://www.plosbiology.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pbio.1000536


It cant be a coincidence that those groups with more G, R2a, L, J2 have a more special look to them while groups with more than 50% R1a1a look native and not much special. R1a1a is Indo European definitely no doubt but it is very interesting that all Nuristani groups(another Indo-Iranian branch) have strong J2, G, L, R2a components beside the usual R1a1a.

All these groups in this region are very mixed, their Y-DNA/mtDNA and their Autosomal DNA indicate that, also not every single R1a1a is Indo-European, a lot of it is actually native to these areas since it's also found in tribal non-Indo-European groups.

oriental
22-08-12, 23:16
The Hg P is the parent:

Haplogroup P is a branch of Haplogroup MNOPS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_MNOPS_%28Y-DNA%29), which is a branch of Haplogroup K (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_K_%28Y-DNA%29) (M9). It is believed to have arisen north of the Hindu Kush (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindu_Kush), in Siberia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberia), Kazakhstan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kazakhstan), Uzbekistan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uzbekistan), or along the Silk Road (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silk_Road) in the region of Xinjiang (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang), Gansu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gansu), or Ningxia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ningxia), before being pressed North, approximately 35,000 years ago. An alternate postulated theory supported by Gansu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gansu), Ningxia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ningxia) is that this group moved along the opposite side of the Tibetan plateau along the Sichuan Mountains, before taking the silk route and Bering land bridge. The climate was much different and would have supported more life and grasslands in Tarim Basin, Mongolia, and Manchuria. The sea levels were up to 370 feet lower 18,000 years ago, and significantly lower the last 100,000 years, allowing for an easy expansion of Haplogroup K throughout East Asia, and through the grasslands north of Beijing, going West to the Tarim Basin and North East to Manchuria.
The descendant haplogroups of P include Q (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_Q_%28Y-DNA%29) (M242) and R (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R_%28Y-DNA%29) (M207).
[edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Haplogroup_P_%28Y-DNA%29&action=edit&section=2)] Distribution Haplogroup P is distributed commonly in Europe, Central Asia, North-East Asia, North America, South America.
Besides the haplogroup R and haplogroup Q branches, other patrilines derived from Haplogroup P-M45 are labeled for sake of convenience as Haplogroup P-M45*. They are present at low to moderate frequency among modern South Asian populations.[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_P_%28Y-DNA%29#cite_note-1) P-M45* is most frequent among the Muslims of Manipur (33%), but this may be due to a very small sample size, 9.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_P_%28Y-DNA%29

It arose 27,000 to 41,000 before present according to Wikipedia. But R1a arose less than 18,500 years before present. There is a gap of roughly 9,000 to 23,000 years so Hg P people could have gone to many places. The thing is there are two hot spots for Hg R1a in the Pamir Mountain area and Ukraine area. So where did R1a originate? That is the puzzle. Maybe in between in Central Asia. Who knows.

Tumbiwan
04-02-18, 23:57
Hello, late on this post, haha. Have you guys considered their oral traditions of being descendants of alexander the great’s greco-bactrian people? It may explain why they have ukranian dna, close to macedonia, as well as the pamir mountain range being located well within the greco-bactrian empire.