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Templar
23-10-11, 15:22
It is interesting how the countries with the highest frequency of Haplogroup I (balkans and Scandinavia/Northern Europe), also have the tallest people in the world.

You can confirm this by looking up "human height around the world" on wikipedia and by googling the the frequency of Haplogroup I on google maps.

Any thoughts about this Maciamo?

Wilhelm
23-10-11, 16:38
It is interesting how the countries with the highest frequency of Haplogroup I (balkans and Scandinavia/Northern Europe), also have the tallest people in the world.

You can confirm this by looking up "human height around the world" on wikipedia and by googling the the frequency of Haplogroup I on google maps.

Any thoughts about this Maciamo?
It's not true. The highest frequency of I is found in Sardinian and Bosnia.

Templar
24-10-11, 00:32
Also Scandinavia though at a lesser degree. Google Haplogroup I on google images.

Maciamo
24-10-11, 08:56
There is some kind of correlation between height and haplogroup I. The tallest people in Europe are mostly Germanic (+ Finland and Baltic), who have the highest frequency of haplogroup I1 and I2b, and according to Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_height#Average_height_around_the_world) also the Dinaric Alps (I2a2 peak), although there is no data for other I2a2 hotspots like Moldova and Romania. The one exception seems to be I2a1, as Spaniards, Southwest French and Sardinians are less tall than the European average, especially Sardinians, who lack haplogroup R1a. So the question is whether the tallest people were originally R1a or IxI2a1, or both. After all, the Wikipedia ranking shows that the Lithuanians, Poles, Czechs and Slovaks are quite tall as well. It's interesting that all the ancient DNA from Paleolithic and Mesolithic North and Northeast Europe was always U4 or U5 (+ one U2 in Russia) in regions that were probably already I and R1a on the paternal side. In contrast, Southwest Europe (I2a1 region) already had a lot of other haplogroups (H, V, N1, N5) during the Mesolithic. So maximum body height seems to correlate with Paleolithic/Mesolithic North and East European ancestry.

Templar
24-10-11, 10:37
Hmm, well regarding Romania or Moldova, there is a theory that most Haplogroup I2a2 carriers there are actually descendants of migrants who came from the mountainous regions of the western balkans. During this hypothetical migration, the slavs in the balkans had only taken all the low-lying areas and population centers, but not the isolated mountain villages yet. Most of these mountain-folk were pastoral Latin-speaking Vlachs. They might have been threatened by the fall of the major cities to the Slavs, and so they logically concluded that they would be next and therefore decided to migrate. Modern-day Romania would have been a good place for resettlement since it had plenty of mountains in its heartland (for herding) and it was relatively empty after the Barbarian (Germanic) invasions and the fall of Roman-rule. Another clue is the fact that a considerable number of Romanians have surnames which are connected to a pastoral lifestyle. Romania is also quite known for its pastoralist population and traditions relating to them. I first heard of this theory in the book "Bosnia: A Short History" (by Noel Malcom), but I've heard it echoed in several other sources as well. What are your views on this?

Kardu
24-10-11, 11:49
I don't know if it's related to hg I or not but my paternal grandpa and his father were around 2 meters tall. I am just 1.80 because of maternal lines I guess, but among my second and third cousins there are many 1.90+ people.

Yetos
24-10-11, 12:47
I don't know about Northern Europe,

I know that in Balkans the tallest are the Montenegrins and some places in Romania

in Greece the tallest are in Makedonia and Thessaly and Acarnania-Aetolia (Agrinio) which is rich in I

comparing some other characteristics,

HG I people have tall neck, usually light skin and black hair, long feet and hands and their face is long
while R1a mostly have rounded face.

Mzungu mchagga
24-10-11, 13:54
Haplogroup E has huger penises than haplogroup I!

[Sorry I couldn't resist! :grin:]

Cambrius (The Red)
24-10-11, 15:02
Quite funny.

Templar
24-10-11, 15:06
Since the original carriers of Haplogroup I were the original Europeans (Cro-Magnon), it makes sense that they were/are the tallest, strongest (have above average muscle matter), had very wide shoulders, and high bone density. They had to compete with and fight neanderthals, and survive in the inhospitable tundra of Southern Europe during the ice-age (Northern Europe was completely covered in glaciers at the time). Carriers of hp J never went farther North, and stayed in the near/middle east, and therefore never developed physically to the same degree (they are usually considered gracile and small). Yet, J carriers had several strong similarities with I carriers: dark hair, olive skin (though I carriers were probably slightly lighter), brown eyes, and straight hair (though not as straight as East Asian hair).

Kardu
24-10-11, 15:15
Since the original carriers of Haplogroup I were the original Europeans (Cro-Magnon), it makes sense that they were/are the tallest, strongest (have above average muscle matter), had very wide shoulders, and high bone density. They had to compete with and fight neanderthals, and survive in the inhospitable tundra of Southern Europe during the ice-age (Northern Europe was completely covered in glaciers at the time). Carriers of hp J never went farther North, and stayed in the near/middle east, and therefore never developed physically to the same degree (they are usually considered gracile and small). Yet, J carriers had several strong similarities with I carriers: dark hair, olive skin (though I carriers were probably slightly lighter), brown eyes, and straight hair (though not as straight as East Asian hair).

Considering common descend from IJ, it's quite possible:)

Drac II
24-10-11, 16:14
There is some kind of correlation between height and haplogroup I. The tallest people in Europe are mostly Germanic (+ Finland and Baltic), who have the highest frequency of haplogroup I1 and I2b, and according to Wikipedia also the Dinaric Alps (I2a2 peak), although there is no data for other I2a2 hotspots like Moldova and Romania. The one exception seems to be I2a1, as Spaniards, Southwest French and Sardinians are less tall than the European average, especially Sardinians, who lack haplogroup R1a.

According to the data collected by that same site, the most common height among European males seems to be in the 5 ft 9 in to 5 ft 10 in range, which is the average male height in Spain:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_height

Antigone
24-10-11, 16:24
Haplogroup E has huger penises than haplogroup I!

[Sorry I couldn't resist! :grin:]

Where is your evidence MM?

Sorry couldn't resist either!

Templar
24-10-11, 16:45
Spain both has a lot of paleolithic blood but also a considerable number of genes that resulted from the near-eastern farmers. Both people are dark, but paleolithic people were tall and muscular, while the neolithic farmers were short and gracile. I think that the vast majority of dark traits in Spain are the result of the paleolithic roots and therefore most Spaniards aren't short. Any short Spaniards probably have near-eastern admixture from either the neolithic farmers or the relatively recent Moor migrations (though both didn't have a too significant impact on Spain's genepool, especially not the later).

Knovas
24-10-11, 16:56
Spain is mainly Southwestern (First) and Northwestern (second). That means is predominantly I2a clades and typical Western European R1b. Autosomally speaking, of course.

What can be interpreted as Near Eastern is the Southeastern genetic, as well as the Caucasian. Very low in Spain as you can see here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ArAJcY18g2GadGd1UEFIbzVlUEtpbTd0S0RLcnVYT EE&hl=en_US#gid=0

You can also check the autosomal maps listed here in Eupedia, where the lowest percents of West Asian and Southwest Asian admixture are listed in Iberia. Don't know much about who is tall or short, but the explanation doesn't match. That's all.

Templar
24-10-11, 17:14
Exactly, Spain is mostly R1b and various form of hp I. And this does have an impact on the height of Spaniards. 85% of height is determined by genetics. This is why most Spaniards are tall compared to most people in the world. Though they aren't as tall as Scandinavians and Yugoslavian people, who have higher hp I autosomal dna and therefore are tallest.

Mzungu mchagga
24-10-11, 18:50
Where is your evidence MM?

Sorry couldn't resist either!

Ok, I'm a male nurse, and I've (unvoluntarily) seen enough penises in my life. North Europeans are on average taller than South Europeans, but their penises are basically the same size, which makes them appear smaller, plus in relation to body size they ARE smaller then! I've also seen a lot of Africans, and many Africans are Haplogroup E, or not?

Templar
24-10-11, 19:19
Not all South Europeans are E, its not that simple. And African E variations are way different from near eastern/European ones. Genetics can't just be divided into North and South, each region is unique. The west Balkans and Greece are both in Southern Europe, yet have very different autosomal DNA, because far more neolithic farmers from the near-east settled in Greece than in the west Balkans.

Mzungu mchagga
24-10-11, 19:24
Not all South Europeans are E, its not that simple. And African E variations are way different from near eastern/European ones. Genetics can't just be divided into North and South, each region is unique. The west Balkans and Greece are both in Southern Europe, yet have very different autosomal DNA, because far more neolithic farmers from the near-east settled in Greece than in the west Balkans.

Exactly!
And not all North Europeans are HG I! In the same way it is too simple to assume haplogroups are linked to body height! You're just contradicting yourself now!

Templar
24-10-11, 19:30
I said "Scandinavians" not North Europeans. Scandinavia is a very specific region. You just trying to find flaws when there are none. You are probably a PC-obsessed ultra liberal.

Taranis
24-10-11, 22:01
I said "Scandinavians" not North Europeans. Scandinavia is a very specific region. You just trying to find flaws when there are none. You are probably a PC-obsessed ultra liberal.

Please, there is no reason for insulting.

Yetos
24-10-11, 23:52
Haplogroup E has huger penises than haplogroup I!

[Sorry I couldn't resist! :grin:]


in case you find it funny,

go and ask a barber or hairdresser etc,

Asian have circular hair
North Europeans almost circle
south Europeans have eclipse
while in parts the hair is almost a flat eclipse,

this is not HG science but statistic result which i saw in tv years before,
and it is true,

I dont know in your areas, but there are many areas where 1 village dwells don't even look like next village, although few kilometers,

if you ever visit Balkans you may not seen differences, but some people can guess your origin at 50% by some such characteristics,

just remember

5295

and them

5296

the difference is obvious

just look andre's neck

5297

Templar
25-10-11, 00:27
Haha its not really a real insult. And I did have a point. Many people jump at the opportunity to point out a problem/flaw/mistake due to their biased thinking. One should pursue only the truth and knowledge, and nothing else.

Mzungu mchagga
25-10-11, 17:17
I said "Scandinavians" not North Europeans. Scandinavia is a very specific region. You just trying to find flaws when there are none.
I actually used Scandinavians and North Europeans in this case as a synonyme.


You are probably a PC-obsessed ultra liberal.Oh wow, did my originally intended joke tear my insides that wide open? Congratulations!

Templar
25-10-11, 19:08
I actually used Scandinavians and North Europeans in this case as a synonyme.

Well, they are NOT synonymous, Scandinavia just ONE part of Northern Europe. Northern Europe also includes the Baltic countries and the Great Isles.


Oh wow, did my originally intended joke tear my insides that wide open? Congratulations!

Extremism of any kind is detrimental to progress and truth. Only the balanced and middle way leads to the advancement of mankind. In the ancient world this was widely known among the wise; in both the West (Aristotle's Golden Mean) and East (Confucius's Doctrine of the Mean). An extreme liberal is just as bad as an extreme conservative.

sparkey
25-10-11, 19:40
I'll refer back to my map of Paleolithic Remnants (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?26944-The-Paleolithic-Remnants-a-map). The major migrations after that map are (in temporal order):

(1) I2a1a along the Mediterranean and into Sardinia
(2) I2a2a-Cont/Roots/Cont3[I2a2a2] throughout the Northern area and into the Southeastern area of the Continent (also later dispersal with Germanic and other migrations)
(3) I2a2b dispersal in Central Europe, probably expanded later mostly with Celtic migrations (unclear)
(4) I1 into Scandinavia and later dispersal with Germanic migrations
(5) I2a1b1a into the Balkans

The other remnants like I2c and the I2a local to the British Isles may also have descendants that contributed significantly autosomally to modern Europeans, but remained thinly spread and/or stationary.

A working assumption that I've had is that, in general, Y-DNA magnifies the effect of migration, so to look for the autosomal contribution of populations that carry a certain Y-DNA haplogroup, we need to balance their contribution more in favor of their origin and less in favor of where they spread later when looking at their modern frequency distribution.

In this case, it looks like the old I1 population were indeed tall, but after that, the correlation begins to fall off somewhat. There is a good chance that the I2a1b1a people brought their tall stature to the Balkans region, which was canceled out to some degree in their point of origin by the migrations of others, as Y-DNA frequency tells us, but we should look at this potential correlation with a sense of skepticism due to the effect I describe above.

There is no obvious correlation with tallness and migration (1) at all. (2) is possible, but (3) is unlikely. Something that may save this theory is that all the branches 1-5 are distant enough that (2), (4), and (5) could have evolved tallness independently while (1) and (3) did not need to. It's probably not a coincidence that the likely starting locations or previous branching locations of (2), (4), and (5) are more northerly than those of (1) and (3).

It's also important to keep in mind that tallness is linked to not only genetics, but also diet, as evidenced by the fact that South Koreans are, on average, taller than North Koreans. I don't know how much this would influence variation within Europe.

Mzungu mchagga
25-10-11, 19:53
I don't know if I recall it correctly, but wasn't I1 in Scandinavia more of a bottle-neck haplogroup that spread with the autosomal genes of more recent migrants? If yes, I don't think that the original I1 people should have contributed much to Scandinavian autosomal genes. Or I mean, it is rather unlikely (though not completely impossible) that tallness derives from I people. Probably similiar in the Balkans.

sparkey
25-10-11, 20:01
I don't know if I recall it correctly, but wasn't I1 in Scandinavia more of a bottle-neck haplogroup that spread with the autosomal genes of more recent migrants? If yes, I don't think that the original I1 people should have contributed much to Scandinavian autosomal genes. Or I mean, it is rather unlikely (though not completely impossible) that tallness derives from I people. Probably similiar in the Balkans.

Basically all of the Haplogroup I remnants were bottlenecked severely, with I1 being one of them, yes. But there's no reason to assume that because I1 bottlenecked, its autosomal contribution is small... it could be that the I1 MRCA guy, and all his close cousins who contributed their autosomal DNA but not their Y-DNA, make up a good portion of the genetics of modern Scandinavians. The R1a of Corded Ware culture, which I'll grant could have contributed more autosomally than I1 to modern Scandinavians, has a poorer correlation with tallness.

Knovas
25-10-11, 20:58
Good posts sparkey, that's what I think happens between ethnic Iberians (excluding Basques and closer people). I2a1a does not show high presence anywhere, except in Aragón. But surely in autosomal DNA is the greatest contribution.

In Sardinia for example, although there's a very significant presence of this haplogroup, we cannot say the same. The high Southeastern seems to confirm it's much more recent than in Iberia, and that other haplogroups had also an important impact there, being I2a1a diluted more than one can expect while checking the huge percent in the distribution.

Templar
30-10-11, 14:33
The pattern that I've noticed is:

J/E/G- short, gracile, creative and innovative, elongated head, dark hair/eyes
R1a/b- short,robust/strong, short, hard-working, round-headed, light hair/eyes.
I- tall, robust/strong, creative and innovative, elongated head

Though this only applies if the person is overwhelmingly composed of one of one of the HPs. Germanic people for example are a mix between I and R1b (also R1a), and therefore are both tall and have fair eyes/hair.

Ivan
31-10-11, 05:42
I usually don't fall for this threads since its all about who is stronger competition, less dark, and European looking.

There is a valuable reasoning in this kind of research, but I think yours is a bit more colored.

I think you have misconception about others peoples strengths and capabilities, and I see you are little bit obsessed with yourself.

Every physical appearance has its strengths and weaknesses, considering how meaningful and useful is it in the real world.

In General I would agree with the height issue, but just in general.

Here I will take your approach to this issue to offer a little bit more of flavor in this subject.

J, E, and is can be extremely tall and of medium hight, more slender, muscular, and some types in ME are gentler. Their physical appearance has connection to overall strength endurance and agility. Also E is high in Montenegrins one of the highest people in the world.

G is just as J and E agile, muscular, slender, medium height or tall.
But there are also extremely strong people among these and quite a number of them.
N.Ossetians are prominent carriers of G. There is just 720.000 of them. Amateur wrestling is sport #1 for Ossetians.
At the XXIX Olympic Games in Beijing Ossetian sportsmen won two gold, three silver, and four bronze medals.

The performance of Ossetian sportsmen was quite good. However, the results from the 2004 Olympic Games were much better: four gold, two silver and one bronze medals. Twenty Ossetian sportsmen performed at the 2008 Olympics and won medals for Russia, Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan, Azerbaijan and Slovakia.

Enaldiev Aslanbek
(1948)

Distinguished weightlifter and armwrestler (heavy weight).
Honored Sport Master of Russia.
Honored Trainer of Russia.
http://ossetians.com/eng/news.php?newsid=195
http://ossetians.com/pictures/Enaldiev%20Portret.jpg
http://ossetians.com/pictures/Enaldiev%20A_Alekseev.jpg

http://ossetians.com/eng/index.php?showcat=jump&f=22
http://http://ossetians.com/eng/index.php?showcat=jump&f=23 (http://ossetians.com/eng/index.php?showcat=jump&f=23)
http://ossetians.com/eng/index.php?showcat=jump&f=24
http://ossetians.com/eng/index.php?showcat=jump&f=25
http://ossetians.com/eng/news.php?newsid=552


http://img.metro.co.uk/i/pix/galleries/sport08/AY15725601_440x370.jpg

Templar
31-10-11, 23:23
Well actually it was a mistake to list G, since I don't really know much about them.

Regarding this though:
Also E is high in Montenegrins one of the highest people in the world.

In Albania, the northerners are far more autosomally I than E, and they are as tall as any Yugoslav people. The southern Albanians on the other hand are short and have the highest rate of E in all of Europe. Based on this, it is easy to conclude that Haplogroup E correlates with shortness (relative to European standards).

Ivan
01-11-11, 03:26
Actually, you din not make a mistake considering an overall slenderness.

When people are slender it is hard to notice their muscle structure. These cultures valued agility, speed, explosiveness, and horsemanship. For them, a slender man was more capable and agile in horse mounted battles. They also practiced restraint in all things as well with food. There were no obese men in Circassia and Ossetia to be seen in the past.

Circassians were more tall then medium, while Ossetians were probably more medium than tall.

If E is short, it seems that it did not make any influence in Montenegro.

Templar
01-11-11, 13:05
It might also be that most of the E composition comes from the Albanian population living in Montenegro (they are like 10% of Montenegro's population).

MOESAN
18-11-11, 20:37
There is some kind of correlation between height and haplogroup I. The tallest people in Europe are mostly Germanic (+ Finland and Baltic), who have the highest frequency of haplogroup I1 and I2b, and according to Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_height#Average_height_around_the_world) also the Dinaric Alps (I2a2 peak), although there is no data for other I2a2 hotspots like Moldova and Romania. The one exception seems to be I2a1, as Spaniards, Southwest French and Sardinians are less tall than the European average, especially Sardinians, who lack haplogroup R1a. So the question is whether the tallest people were originally R1a or IxI2a1, or both. After all, the Wikipedia ranking shows that the Lithuanians, Poles, Czechs and Slovaks are quite tall as well. It's interesting that all the ancient DNA from Paleolithic and Mesolithic North and Northeast Europe was always U4 or U5 (+ one U2 in Russia) in regions that were probably already I and R1a on the paternal side. In contrast, Southwest Europe (I2a1 region) already had a lot of other haplogroups (H, V, N1, N5) during the Mesolithic. So maximum body height seems to correlate with Paleolithic/Mesolithic North and East European ancestry.

as a whole, polish people and czech people are not tall, just middle as Swiss or Belgians - there was (i don't know for now) tall enough in Pomerania, close to Northeastern Germany and according to some authors, in the Southeastern mountains of Carpathes (see the tall Romanians of some Carpathian districts) -
when Scandinavians was 1m72-73, Bosnians 1m74, Germans and Greeks 1m69, Dutch and English people 1m71, these Poles was 1m66 as Czechs (it's means, I know) - to compare: same periods: France 1m65 (but ranging from 1m62 to 1m70) - some studies on stature are very unreliable: the tall Irish (same periods) put to 1m72 when they was 1m68 (some surveys was made on young people, but young people engaged in army: very often this kind of population is tallest that the reminding one, as veru often the new opulation in colonies. today you can add about 11-12 cm for the young people almost evreywhere.
to answer a following post, I should say that 'dinarics' in Carpathian mountains are maybe more 'autochtonous' there than in Dalmatia-Hercegovina, where there was almost nobody during the LGM if we take the archeology in account (but I 'm not up-to-date for eventual new discoveries there?)

Eldritch
01-08-13, 19:09
Sardinians which are among the shortest Europeans are mainly I on the male line so i'd say no.

Tallest people in World(Dutch) aren't even majority I so i'd say no.


The pattern that I've noticed is:

J/E/G- short, gracile, creative and innovative, elongated head, dark hair/eyes
R1a/b- short,robust/strong, short, hard-working, round-headed, light hair/eyes.
I- tall, robust/strong, creative and innovative, elongated head

Though this only applies if the person is overwhelmingly composed of one of one of the HPs. Germanic people for example are a mix between I and R1b (also R1a), and therefore are both tall and have fair eyes/hair.

Strong pseudoscience here.

Templar
01-08-13, 21:47
Strong pseudoscience here.

It isn't science at all. Just my own personal observations. You are by all means welcome to disagree.

Templar
22-11-14, 18:37
A new study has found a strong link between haplogroup I frequency and height in Europe:

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1570677X14000665

Dagne
22-11-14, 22:35
Lithuanians have little haplogroup I, and still they are rather tall, taller than most of the Balcan nations apart from Montenegrians and people from Herzegovina. I think it is autosomals and height that should be linked. Perhaps it is something from hunter-gathers from Old Europe that makes people taller.

oreo_cookie
23-11-14, 06:29
Russians are often tall too and I don't think haplogroup I is that common there either.

Maleth
23-11-14, 20:43
I believe height in humans is evolutionary in its nature and co related to a particular type of diet and nutrition irrelevant to haplogroups. A long period of 'malnutrition' (or lack of high protein diet) can also reverse the process.

motzart
23-11-14, 23:27
A new study has found a strong link between haplogroup I frequency and height in Europe:

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1570677X14000665

I think we all have been speculating on the connection for awhile, nice to see it confirmed.

Templar
24-11-14, 11:20
I think we all have been speculating on the connection for awhile, nice to see it confirmed.

Yup that's why I posted it.

Templar
24-11-14, 11:27
Here is the height map from the study: http://i.imgur.com/OIUwGp4.pnghttp://prntscr.com/58zbwh

arvistro
24-11-14, 13:01
The pattern that I've noticed is:

R1a/b- short,robust/strong, short, hard-working, round-headed, light hair/eyes.
I- tall, robust/strong, creative and innovative, elongated head

Though this only applies if the person is overwhelmingly composed of one of one of the HPs. Germanic people for example are a mix between I and R1b (also R1a), and therefore are both tall and have fair eyes/hair.
This is an interesting observation. Because I also initially had this feeling that 'I' folk had elongated heads (for example, when you check famous 'I' people page in eupedia). But then there is this assumption that early IE folk was R1A/R1B and they arrived in I lands. And archeology I think states that elongated heads arrived and rounded heads lived there before.
Maybe I am mistaking something.

Templar
24-11-14, 16:59
This is an interesting observation. Because I also initially had this feeling that 'I' folk had elongated heads (for example, when you check famous 'I' people page in eupedia). But then there is this assumption that early IE folk was R1A/R1B and they arrived in I lands. And archeology I think states that elongated heads arrived and rounded heads lived there before.
Maybe I am mistaking something.

I think that anthropologists agree that round headed people brought bronze metallurgy to Europe and that these same metallurgists brought the practice of cremating their dead. Both Bronze metallurgy and cremation are widely known to be Indoeuropean cultural behavior. The longheaded kurgan graves could be explained by admixture with either mediterraneans or EEMH.

arvistro
24-11-14, 23:31
Another thing is that I am short 1.75, robust, have a big head, light eyes/hair. But maybe 1 in 10 would classify me hard-working :) 9 in 10 would state that I am a lazy smart ass with some crazy ideas who moves his smart object only when passion - driven or deadline forced.
But then as a Latvian I have equal chances of N1c and R1a. Where N1c stands in your observations btw?

oriental
25-11-14, 00:06
Leo Tolstoy belongs to Haplogroup I


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzwWexvh18M

His head appears rather round.

motzart
25-11-14, 02:13
This is an interesting observation. Because I also initially had this feeling that 'I' folk had elongated heads (for example, when you check famous 'I' people page in eupedia). But then there is this assumption that early IE folk was R1A/R1B and they arrived in I lands. And archeology I think states that elongated heads arrived and rounded heads lived there before.
Maybe I am mistaking something.

They classified Loschbour as "Hyperdolicephalic" (Hyper-long skull if you please), from this: study http://www.academia.edu/2555347/_The_Mesolithic_Site_of_Heffingen-Loschbour_Grand_Duchy_of_Luxembourg_._A_yet_undesc ribed_Human_Cremation_possibly_from_the_Rhin-Meuse-Schelde_Culture_Anthropological_Radiometric_and_Ar chaeological_Implications

"Its (Loschbour's) skull is hyperdolichocephalic, with a cranial capacity of 1584cm3."

Loschbour was short but that can be attributed to nutrition of the era.

Here is a quote on modern average cranial capacities of different races from a different study http://psychology.uwo.ca/faculty/rushtonpdfs/sizematters.pdf

"Their study found that East Asians, Europeans, and Africans averaged cranial volumes of 1415, 1362, and 1268 cm3, respectively."

So its apparent that ancient Y DNA I Hunter Gatherer's still had much larger cranial capacities than modern humans, this is consistent with Cro Magnon who also had a larger skull. I think there is probably a correlation between height, overall body size, & skull size.

motzart
25-11-14, 02:17
I think that anthropologists agree that round headed people brought bronze metallurgy to Europe and that these same metallurgists brought the practice of cremating their dead. Both Bronze metallurgy and cremation are widely known to be Indoeuropean cultural behavior. The longheaded kurgan graves could be explained by admixture with either mediterraneans or EEMH.

Yes

Historical craniometric (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craniometry) studies found that the Beaker people appeared to be of a different physical type than those earlier populations in the same geographic areas. They were described as tall, heavy boned and brachycephalic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brachycephalous) (Broad(wide) skull). The early studies on the Beakers which were based on the analysis of their skeletal remains, were craniometric.

Dagne
25-11-14, 11:38
Here is the height map from the study: http://i.imgur.com/OIUwGp4.pnghttp://prntscr.com/58zbwh
I still don't undrstand - according to this Study Lithuanians are the fourth tallest, but they have very little I. So why would you say that your theory about I = tall is being confirmed? If hapl I (rather than anything else) is correlated to being tall, then no population without I could be tall. Do you see the logic?

Templar
25-11-14, 13:24
I still don't undrstand - according to this Study Lithuanians are the fourth tallest, but they have very little I. So why would you say that your theory about I = tall is being confirmed? If hapl I (rather than anything else) is correlated to being tall, then no population without I could be tall. Do you see the logic?

Well there are of course going to be outliers. Here is a chart that shows the correlation (first chart only has haplogroup I the other one also includes the Germanic subclade of r1b):
http://ars.els-cdn.com/content/image/1-s2.0-S1570677X14000665-gr11.jpg

arvistro
25-11-14, 15:38
They did not even include Lat and Lith in graph below :D

So, we are taller than ecpected based on our I-ness, whereas Bosniaks, Serbs, Croats, Norges are shorter.

Edit: they should have chosen some other type of regression (not linear).