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Yorkie
29-10-11, 21:32
I recently sent my raw genome data from 23andMe to Dr Doug McDonald for his BGA analysis. My paper ancestry is largely English with an emphasis upon Yorkshire and Suffolk. I have a substantial Norman ancestry too in terms of numbers of Norman-derived surnames in my family tree and from pedigrees and paper-trails.

The results were remarkably accurate. His PCA scattergram placed me firmly within the English cluster, with a small pull towards northern France which probably reflects this Norman ancestry.

Would other posters care to exchange their McDonald analysis results and experiences? I would welcome them.

Knovas
29-10-11, 21:47
In my case he told me 100% Spanish placing me at the top of the cluster. I am very close to one of the Behar Spaniards (the sample he uses) with mostly Catalan heritage too. For what I saw in different admixture analysis (other projects), both of us get very similar results, so I think it's quite accurate.

However, actually Dodecad is my favorite.

Kardu
29-10-11, 22:45
He correctly decoded me as Georgian although I've sent him my data anonymously :)

Yorkie
30-10-11, 01:42
He correctly decoded me as Georgian although I've sent him my data anonymously :)

That is seriously impressive! Dr McDonald seems more accurate in general than 23andMe, plus more up to date regarding sample populations. :good_job:

Knovas
30-10-11, 15:44
For what I saw, you Kardu are not the "typical" Georgian. But in this cases when the person deviates a little, the program still shows the cluster wich reflects better your ancestry.

The same happens in Spain with some of the non Basque Northeast Iberians. In Doug McDonald analysis we are inside the cluster (at the top), but in more accurate admixture as for example Dodecad or Eurogenes, we are easy to distinguish from the "main" population. And I guess the same happens to you while comparing with the Georgian averages in different projects.

Kardu
30-10-11, 21:35
For what I saw, you Kardu are not the "typical" Georgian. But in this cases when the person deviates a little, the program still shows the cluster wich reflects better your ancestry.


What do you exactly mean? :) All my known ancestry is Georgian, my kin is attested in Georgia since early middle ages, and I have that so-called 'West Asian' component higher than some other Georgians :)

Knovas
30-10-11, 22:34
Aha! mm Perhaps I confused you with another Georgian. I thought you had higher West & East Euro + Mediterranean than the average, and also some Southwest Asian.

¿Do you have more West Asian than the Georgian average sample? (I don't mean the Dodecad participants). If it's like this, I was definetely wrong.

PD: I think this is the sample used by Doug McDonald too. The Behar Georgians, with 72.3% West Asian in average. Very high.

Kardu
30-10-11, 23:06
OK, no you were not mistake I guess. Here are my Dodecad data:

Dodecad:

0.01% Scandinavian
4.36% Volga_Region
5.93% Altaic
14.88% Celto_Germanic
63.47% Caucassian_Anatolian
5.11% Balto_Slavic
6.24% North_Atlantic

Dodecad v3 k=12

4.2% East European
6.6% West European
22.2% Mediterranean
50.8% West Asian
4.9% South Asian
0.6% South-East Asian
10.6% South-West Asian

As for Behar's Georgian, we have tried to discover who were those tested, but without success. Indeed their West Asian component is too high. Probably they are from some isolated village...

Kardu
30-10-11, 23:12
East European - 7.2%
West European - 14.1%
Mediterranean - 17.7%
West Asian - 45.8%
South Asian - 4%
Northeast Asian - 4.4%
Southeast Asian - 3.1%
Southwest Asian - 3.7%

This is Georgian average

Knovas
30-10-11, 23:24
Thanks Kardu.

Yes, it seems you Gerogians are very diverse, and the Behar samples were collected in a extremely isolated region, although there are 4 individuals deviating too.

Then, focussing in Doug McDonald's work, the program still found your highest similarities with the mentioned Georgian sample, from the Behar study. Of course, your results are fairly different from those, but there's no other group more similar to you as I said.

More samples from Georgia are required to see different sub-groups there, I guess.

Kardu
31-10-11, 00:35
Yes, certainly, we desperately need more data from Georgia.
I am aware of 2 more Georgians who sent their raw data to Prof. McDonald and he correctly identified them too.

Knovas
31-10-11, 01:20
He usually identifies people correctly, even considering that apreciable differences exist.

I think it would be good to see as much people as possible from near the Caucassus, since there are surely very interesting samples around there. I'm personally curious about Ingush people since Maciamo posted their haplogroup frequencies, and they show extremely high J2. It's possible they really are the most West Asian people, quite similar to those isolated Georgians or even more.

Kardu
31-10-11, 01:36
By the end of the year we will have results of 5 more Georgians (all from old nobility, so there is lot of historical evidence about their lines for many centuries) and we try hard to promote testing but it's not an easy task :)

As for Ingush (and Chechens) indeed they have high West Asian component as well, but the dominant hg among them is J2a4b*, and among Georgians J2a* is widespread and they are about 12-15 000 years old, much older than Ingush cluster.

Knovas
31-10-11, 01:58
We'll see the 5 Georgians you mention how do they look. For what you say they have possibilities to be more or less the same as the Behar ones :)

Don't know much about Ingush and their subclades, but if they appear to be quite similar to Chechens, then they are far from those Georgians. Well, it's too early to take conlsusions about their autosomal results, and it's good to keep in mind that haplogroup distribution between Chechens is fairly different from Ingush people. We'll have to wait for more information, but in my opinion J2a4b* could perfectly match the West Asian admixture, the same as J2a* and others.

Yorkie
31-10-11, 11:51
I don't know enough about Georgian dna to comment, but I do know that McDonald definately has the edge on 23andMe regarding Western European dna. My green spot on his map covers Yorkshire and East Anglia and the red spot hones in on Yorkshire too. This reflects a majority Germanic-derived English genetic profile very accurately.

To reiterate, I cluster firmly in England with a small pull to northern France which probably reflects Norman admixture. I imagine that the bulk of the Scots and Welsh might cluster nearer to the Irish on his PCA map?

Knovas
31-10-11, 17:09
You are right about Scots, but concretely Southwest Scots. In some of the Eurogenes plots they cluster very close to Irish, although Cornish people clusters even closer. Not sure about Welsh, I assume the most ethnic ones would get very similar reports too. That was clear when Eurogenes included a North Atlantic component (quite present along the Atlantic fringe, Iberians included), and those groups as well as most of the Irish, got the highest scores.

Another thing is some Irish and people from the Northernmost of Scotland, sometimes deviate to Scandinavians, and surely must be due to the Vikings. These people of mixed heritage probably clusters with the Orcadian and the Orkney samples, from the HGDP and 1000 Genomes projects.

Yorkie
31-10-11, 17:23
You are right about Scots, but concretely Southwest Scots. In some of the Eurogenes plots they cluster very close to Irish, although Cornish people clusters even closer. Not sure about Welsh, I assume the most ethnic ones would get very similar reports too. That was clear when Eurogenes included a North Atlantic component (quite present along the Atlantic fringe, Iberians included), and those groups as well as most of the Irish, got the highest scores.

Another thing is some Irish and people from the Northernmost of Scotland, sometimes deviate to Scandinavians, and surely must be due to the Vikings. These people of mixed heritage probably clusters with the Orcadian and the Orkney samples, from the HGDP and 1000 Genomes projects.

I have never done Eurogenes but I imagine that you are correct regarding a genetic affinity between some of the Irish and the people of south-west Scotland. I imagine too that some Lowland Scots, especially from the Lothian area in the south-east [Edinburgh etc] might well cluster with English people like myself due to their heavier Germanic component through the Bernician and Northumbrian Angles and the Anglo-Normans.

I agree too regarding your comments on Scandinavian influence. This influence really extends to my native county of Yorkshire in England too and I get Scandinavian and Orkneys matches on 23andMe. My McDonald position is definately in England though, with this pull towards northern France.

Knovas
31-10-11, 18:19
Vikings surely carried genes in all Britain, but a substantial impact it's only considered to exist between some Irish and Northern Scotish. At least, for what I have read in several threads at 23andme.

Genome wide or relative finder matches sometimes is not the best indicator for ancestry (full admixture). For example, in my case, being almost entirely Catalan, my highest Genome Wide match is an Angloamerican, having several of similar ancestry very close to this one. And my relative finder is composed mostly of Angloamericans, being my highest matches a Southern French (this one makes sense) followed by a Swedish with four grandparents there.

If you don't join Dodecad and Eurogenes, I recomend you to do so. Both will give you a better idea with the different components, and colud help also to clarify better your Norman ancestry.

PD: I sent you a private message ;)

Alan
01-11-11, 04:44
OK, no you were not mistake I guess. Here are my Dodecad data:

Dodecad:

0.01% Scandinavian
4.36% Volga_Region
5.93% Altaic
14.88% Celto_Germanic
63.47% Caucassian_Anatolian
5.11% Balto_Slavic
6.24% North_Atlantic

Dodecad v3 k=12

4.2% East European
6.6% West European
22.2% Mediterranean
50.8% West Asian
4.9% South Asian
0.6% South-East Asian
10.6% South-West Asian

As for Behar's Georgian, we have tried to discover who were those tested, but without success. Indeed their West Asian component is too high. Probably they are from some isolated village...

Very interesting. You seem also to have moderate frequency of "South Asian" (most probably ANI). And your Results seem more similar to that of an Anatolian Kurd than average Armenian. I already noticed that indeed there seems to be more a fluent transition between Georgians, Kurds, Turks and Iranians while Armenians and Assyrians seem to form their own cluster.

This is really interesting. It can be compared to axes. Iranians, Georgians, Kurds and Turks build a horizontal axes from east to west. While Assyrians and Armenians build a vertical axes from south to north.


Here are the results of the only Anatolian Kurd we have so far.

DOD 834
East European 3.9%
West European 6.4%
Mediterranean 24.8%
West Asian 41.4%
Southwest Asian 12.5%
South Asian 7.7%


A Kurd with roots in Northwest Iran
DOD 731
East European 5.6%
West European 7.9%
Mediterranean 20.3%
West Asian 41.7%
Southwest Asian 11.2%
South Asian 9.4%

You see the fluent transition from east to west?

Kardu
01-11-11, 18:23
These are my Eurasia7 results:

West Asian - 71%
Atlantic-Baltic - 7,5%
East-Asian - 1,9%
Southern - 19,6%
SubSaharan 0%
South Asian 0%
Siberian 0%

According to McDonald that South Asian might be related to Sindhi

Alan
01-11-11, 18:38
These are my Eurasia7 results:

West Asian - 71%
Atlantic-Baltic - 7,5%
East-Asian - 1,9%
Southern - 19,6%
SubSaharan 0%
South Asian 0%
Siberian 0%

According to McDonald that South Asian might be related to Sindhi

Yes that is. Like we already know. The so called "South Asian" component is actually made up by two other very distinct components. ANI and ASI. ANI is very close to West Asian as well shares similarities with West/East European. It is ancestral to Kalash, Sindhi, Afghans, Northindians and other more Central Asian populations while ASI is ancestral to South Indians and more similar to pacific groups. Among Kurds the South Asian seems to be similar to Kalash.

Knovas
01-11-11, 18:46
Uouu Kardu, in the Eurasia7 results you are pretty much Georgian than at higher resolution using a K=12 style or the Euro7 Calculator, very focussed in West Eurasia.

The same happens to me. In both K=12 or the Euro7 Calculator I'm clearly distinctive from Spaniards, but this time I'm much closer. The only thing I noticed here is that I'm the closest one to Gascons and Basques, but just a bit more. However, my results usually look "very Catalan".

Kardu
01-11-11, 19:05
@ Alan

Yes, on Decodetome if I run my data through Asian populations, I stand apart but the closest ones are Kalash.

@ Knovas

True, here are the euro7 results:

‎53.80% Caucasus
0.01% Northwestern
3.03% Northeastern
36.96% Southeastern
0.00% African
0.90% Far_Asian
5.29% Southwestern

And as for Catalan-Spanish distinction I guess among Spanish there are also regional distinctions.

Knovas
01-11-11, 19:52
Yes, of course there are regional distinctions. I think for example in something like this:

- Northwest Iberians: Including Gallicians, Asturians, and people who is ethnically from the Northwesternmost of Castilla y León. We must assume quite of them look very similar to the Portuguese, or viceversa, doesn't matter.

- Main Spaniards: Vast majority of both Castillas (León & Mancha) and Extremadura, although some individuals from there could deviate to Portugal. Most people of very mixed heritage we have in Cantabria, Valencia, Catalonia, etc., would also fit here.

- Southern Iberians: Including people from Southern Valencia, Murcians and vast majority of Andalusians.

- Basque influenced Spaniards: I guess people from Northeast Castilla y León, some people from la Rioja, Northern Navarrans and North Aragonese. Passiegos seem to be more or less the same as Basques, but we could consider them apart. People from Álava would be also necessary to separate from Basques, and put it here.

- Northeast Iberians: Some Navarrans, a lot of Argonese, people from Northern Valencia and, of course, ethnic Catalans.

If one day there are enough samples to do so, I'd really like that Dienekes' makes as many divisions as possible.

Knovas
01-11-11, 20:15
By the way, I remember a Gallician who wasn't identified as 100% Spanish with Doug McDonald's tools, when all the rest got this set of population by default (what I said about the most simillar population). He had to guess it, and he guess it good, but the program failed.

Not sure about the markers detected using the program. The guy seems to get typical results for a Gallician in both Dodecad and Eurogenes. I supose there are just a few cases of this.

Also, another guy, but this was a White American, got an absurd ancestry painting from the program. I think even Doug wasn't able to find an explanation for this.

Kardu
01-11-11, 23:56
Fascinating! Hopefully more samples will be available in near future..

Yorkie
02-11-11, 00:53
Vikings surely carried genes in all Britain, but a substantial impact it's only considered to exist between some Irish and Northern Scotish. At least, for what I have read in several threads at 23andme.

Genome wide or relative finder matches sometimes is not the best indicator for ancestry (full admixture). For example, in my case, being almost entirely Catalan, my highest Genome Wide match is an Angloamerican, having several of similar ancestry very close to this one. And my relative finder is composed mostly of Angloamericans, being my highest matches a Southern French (this one makes sense) followed by a Swedish with four grandparents there.

If you don't join Dodecad and Eurogenes, I recomend you to do so. Both will give you a better idea with the different components, and colud help also to clarify better your Norman ancestry.

PD: I sent you a private message ;)

There are many parts of Britain that were relatively untouched in genetic terms by Danish and Norwegian Vikings. There is little Viking influence in Wales and the Home Counties, for example. Regarding Ireland, McEvoy and Bradley's study found that Viking markers such as forms of I1 and R1a1a are effectively absent in Ireland.

In England, the Vikings made a substantial contribution to the gene-pools of Yorkshire and Lancashire, the Norwegian contingent made a heavy contribution to The Wirral in Cheshire [see Harding and Jobling's 'Wirral and West Lancashire Project'] and to parts of Cumbria, especially Penrith.

There is a heavy Viking contribution to Skye, the Orkneys and Shetland Isles too.

Wilhelm
02-11-11, 01:47
There are many parts of Britain that were relatively untouched in genetic terms by Danish and Norwegian Vikings. There is little Viking influence in Wales and the Home Counties, for example. Regarding Ireland, McEvoy and Bradley's study found that Viking markers such as forms of I1 and R1a1a are effectively absent in Ireland.

In England, the Vikings made a substantial contribution to the gene-pools of Yorkshire and Lancashire, the Norwegian contingent made a heavy contribution to The Wirral in Cheshire [see Harding and Jobling's 'Wirral and West Lancashire Project'] and to parts of Cumbria, especially Penrith.

There is a heavy Viking contribution to Skye, the Orkneys and Shetland Isles too.
Well, the Easterm part of Ireland was colonised by Vikings, they founded the capital Dublin and other towns. But in terms of nordic contribution in the British Isles, not only the Vikings, but also very ancient tribes when the Isles were connected to the continent, the Doggerland people, that were distributed between Scandinavia, Holland, North-Germany and British Isles.

Yorkie
02-11-11, 12:42
Well, the Easterm part of Ireland was colonised by Vikings, they founded the capital Dublin and other towns. But in terms of nordic contribution in the British Isles, not only the Vikings, but also very ancient tribes when the Isles were connected to the continent, the Doggerland people, that were distributed between Scandinavia, Holland, North-Germany and British Isles.

I agree that there is definate historical evidence for both Danish and Norwegian Viking settlement in Ireland, but as McEvoy and Bradley's study appears to show, they seemingly have left few genetic echoes. At least, the markers [I1 and R1a1a] one might associate with them most strongly are effectively absent in Ireland.

I agree re Doggerland peoples- maybe I2a2b-Isles, or I2a1b2-Isles as it has been recently re-named is an echo of such people.

Knovas
02-11-11, 12:43
Correct what Wilhelm says about Dublin.

If it's true that possibly the most purest Atlantics are found in Ireland, where for example the Eurogenes Project showed individuals with the highest scores in the mentioned cluster, it's also true that several individuals deviated from this in a substantial degree. Not only scoring more than the average in the main clusters where Scandinavians got peaks, even when Asian clusters were intruded (North + East Eurasian, quite Forumers surely remember it), some of this Irish got atypical scores.

Mongoloid genes, are of course present between ethnic Scandinavians, but apreciable amounts are not consistent for someone of fully Irish descent.

Knovas
03-11-11, 14:00
I found this results from a North Ossetian on the net. Very ilustrative to show Doug Mc Donald's work:

Most likely fit is 88.0% (+- 10.4%) Mideast (all Caucasus Area)
and 4.7% (+- 2.2%) S. Asia (various subcontinents)
and 7.3% (+- 8.4%) Europe (various subcontinents)

The following are possible population sets and their fractions,
most likely at the top
Georgian= 0.768 S_India= 0.052 Chuvash= 0.180
Georgian= 0.763 N_India= 0.061 Chuvash= 0.177
Georgian= 0.746 Sindhi= 0.077 Chuvash= 0.176
Georgian= 0.740 Pathan= 0.093 Chuvash= 0.167
Adygei= 0.974 S_India= 0.026 Finland= 0.000
Adygei= 0.967 S_India= 0.027 Sardinia= 0.006
Adygei= 0.972 N_India= 0.028 Romania= 0.000
Adygei= 0.963 N_India= 0.030 Sardinia= 0.007
Adygei= 0.949 Sindhi= 0.040 Sardinia= 0.011
Adygei= 0.963 Sindhi= 0.035 Tuscan= 0.002
Second most likely fit is 79.6% (+- 10.9%) Mideast (all Caucasus Area)
and 18.1% (+- 6.8%) Mideast (various subcontinents)
which is 97.7% total Mideast
and 2.3% (+- 5.4%) Europe (various subcontinents)

The following are possible population sets and their fractions,
most likely at the top
Adygei= 0.726 Iranian= 0.245 Chuvash= 0.029
Adygei= 0.795 Iranian= 0.200 Russian= 0.005
Adygei= 0.812 Iranian= 0.188 Tuscan= 0.000
Adygei= 0.812 Iranian= 0.188 Hungary= 0.000
Adygei= 0.807 Iranian= 0.189 Sardinia= 0.004
Adygei= 0.809 Iranian= 0.190 Basque= 0.001
Georgian= 0.525 Iranian= 0.291 Chuvash= 0.184
Adygei= 0.798 Turkish= 0.202 Finland= 0.000
Adygei= 0.943 Palestin= 0.057 Belorus= 0.000
Adygei= 0.933 Palestin= 0.061 Chuvash= 0.005

As you can see, the above list is essentially mixing Middle Eastern
populations, mostly in the Caucasus area, with some minor “modifications”.
IF it is one of the populations I have, it has to actually be Adygei. Of course
it might be one I don’t have, but it still has to be somewhere in that area.

I’d love to hear the answer.

Doug McDonald

5308
5309
5310

Knovas
03-11-11, 14:07
He guessed quite good considering there's no North Ossetian cluster in the plot. Anyways, both North Ossetians and Adygeians are very similar.

Kardu
03-11-11, 22:46
He guessed quite good considering there's no North Ossetian cluster in the plot. Anyways, both North Ossetians and Adygeians are very similar.

Yes, they usually group together on autosomal maps and not only.

Humanist
06-11-11, 06:13
One of Dr. McDonald's plots, with two Syrian Arabs, two Iraqi Mandaeans, one additional Armenian, and several Assyrians (Syriacs, Chaldeans, and "Nestorians") added. This does not include Turks, Iranians, Kurds, Georgians, and others, as the plot is cropped where the original image contained a McDonald crosshair. Refer to the dozens of images I have posted of this plot on other forums, if you are interested in the other populations.

Wilhelm
06-11-11, 21:09
One of Dr. McDonald's plots, with two Syrian Arabs, two Iraqi Mandaeans, one additional Armenian, and several Assyrians (Syriacs, Chaldeans, and "Nestorians") added. This does not include Turks, Iranians, Kurds, Georgians, and others, as the plot is cropped where the original image contained a McDonald crosshair. Refer to the dozens of images I have posted of this plot on other forums, if you are interested in the other populations.
Why did you cut the image in half ? Here is the entire plot :

http://imageshack.us/m/845/8067/bga1.png%3C/a%3E (http://imageshack.us/m/845/8067/bga1.png)

Yorkie
13-11-11, 06:27
You are right about Scots, but concretely Southwest Scots. In some of the Eurogenes plots they cluster very close to Irish, although Cornish people clusters even closer. Not sure about Welsh, I assume the most ethnic ones would get very similar reports too. That was clear when Eurogenes included a North Atlantic component (quite present along the Atlantic fringe, Iberians included), and those groups as well as most of the Irish, got the highest scores.

Another thing is some Irish and people from the Northernmost of Scotland, sometimes deviate to Scandinavians, and surely must be due to the Vikings. These people of mixed heritage probably clusters with the Orcadian and the Orkney samples, from the HGDP and 1000 Genomes projects.

Dr McDonald informs me that his English samples are largely from Kent with a few from Cornwall. I came out as 100% English, by the way. I think these two sampling frames replace the Orcadians in the latest version of his superb BGA system. I must say that his choice of largely Kentish tempered by Cornish 'English' samples is a very good indicator of England's 'Celto-Germanic' mixture. That is to say, the English are predominantly Germanic with a lesser Celtic component. Dr McDonald's PCA maps show a clear genetic distance between the 'English proper' and the Irish and Basques which is a further nail in the coffin lid of the spurious 'minimalist' arguments of those such as Oppenheimer to the ends that the English largely derive from Paleolithic fisher-folk. Plainly, as Dr McDonald's BGA analysis strongly indicates, those of English ancestry like myself descend in the main from Germanic invaders. Hence the strength of the Kent samples. Kent was the first county to be colonised by the Anglo-Saxons, and there is much overlap between Kentish people and northern Germans.

Actually, I don't know why I use the term 'invaders' because for the English these 'invaders' are 'us'...

Antigone
13-11-11, 08:15
I'm not sure I understand how samples from Kent and Cornwall can be applied as difinitive proof of being mainly Anglo/Saxon for the whole of England. What about the areas that were under Danelaw for example? And wasn't Kent the kingdom of the Jutes and not the Anglo Saxons? Although Kent is one of the few English counties that still retains it's Brythonic name originating with the tribe who controlled the area, the (according to Julius Caesar) Cantiaci.

The invasion theory of the Anglo/Saxons is somewhat debunk now, the current theory (due to archaeology) is that it was more of a migration that happened over centuries, and began sometime during the Roman occupation. And that, similar to the Norman invasion, the Anglo/Saxons only replaced the ruling classes leaving much of the original population in place.

Knovas
13-11-11, 15:07
Yorkie

I don't agree that English people is mainly descended from Germanics. Of course it's likely that quite of them have Germanic ancestry, but it's not incredibly significant. Just check the Dodecad v3: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?authkey=COCa89AJ&key=0ArAJcY18g2GadDUyeEtjNnBmY09EbnowN3M3UWRyNnc&hl=en_US&authkey=COCa89AJ#gid=0

It's clear that Germans have substantially higher East European (Baltic) admixture. And the samples are the same used in the Eurogenes project, where the analysis separating Atlantics from "Northern Europeans" and Baltics (more especific to Europe), showed perfectly that English people is manily Noth Atlantic (Celtic) just with some Germanic. So it's rather the contrary.

There are individuals deviating though, it's possible that according to your BGA results you could be more Germanic than Celtic. But it's not the dominant thing, at least, in the samples that have been tested till the moment. I assume depeneding on the British zone we check, more differences we find in regards for this.

St Delcambre
23-11-11, 21:05
I was pretty impressed by the accuracy of McDonald's analysis in my case.

"Most likely fit is 81.4% (+- 13.3%) Europe (all Western Europe)
and 18.6% (+- 13.3%) Europe (various subcontinents)
which is 100% total Europe

The following are possible population sets and their fractions,
most likely at the top
Irish= 0.668 Tuscan= 0.332
French= 0.708 Irish= 0.292
English= 0.825 Tuscan= 0.175
French= 0.871 Russian= 0.129
French= 0.864 Finland= 0.136
French= 0.859 Lithuani= 0.141
Irish= 0.623 Italian= 0.377
Spain= 0.607 Lithuani= 0.393
French= 0.820 Belorus= 0.180
French= 0.515 English= 0.485

This looks French with a slight northward adjustment."

The map oddly placed me EXACTLY to where I've traced my Paternal ancestry back to in Nord, France. I didn't give personal information other than 23andme raw data so I'm somewhat impressed.

One thing I don't understand about the figures here. How are the "fraction" population sets related to the ones on the left column? Are the "fraction sets" the European population sets I least fit into? Any help here would be greatly appreciated.

Knovas
24-11-11, 11:19
It's easy to note that every file scores 100%, so the program seems to produce 10 sets of A+B (sometimes even A+B+C as the example showed above) which in general terms may represent your ancestry. Doug McDonald simply makes the interpretation while checking the whole when it's not clear, and surey he saw many samples similar to your's in the past. However, I think in your case the program guessed it automatically in the map, so not much work for him.

Mercia
08-07-12, 23:30
My ancestry is largely English with a little Welsh and Scots at great-great grandparent level. Here are my results, which contain a mysterious and fascinating eastern element.Most likely fit is 91.7% (+- 1.7%) Europe (all Western Europe)
and 0.6% (+- 1.9%) Europe (various subcontinents)
which is 92.3% total Europe
and 0.1% (+- 0.1%) E. Asia (various subcontinents)
and 7.6% (+- 0.3%) Mideast (all Caucasus Area)
My green spot is floating around off the coast of East Anglia!

Knovas
09-07-12, 17:56
Thanks for sharing Mercia. I wonder if Doug changed something in his analysis, since your Mideast is fairly high compared to other English results I saw time ago. Maybe you'd like to try Dodecad or Eurogenes too, they do an exellent work.

Mercia
10-07-12, 02:28
Thanks for the advice regarding Dodecad and Eurogenes. I've checked my 23 and Me data with Eurogenes and my Caucasian component is between 7-8%, depending on the data set it is compared with. I'm amazed at how detailed the chromosome painting is and I'm looking forward to using this analysis tool again.

donfate
25-10-12, 09:18
This is what he told me. I've done some of the other admixture things and the usually have some kind of mix between European populations. When he says "English" does that exclude Scottish and welsh and Irish? I'm fairly certain I have these in my ancestry, is there a better test to determine between British groups?

"Most likely fit is 100% English (Western Europe)
which is 100% total Europe
The location error = 0.011242 with 1 group

The following are possible populations,
most likely at the top:

The following are possible population sets and their fractions,
most likely at the top
English= 1.000

but it is clear that you do have some amount of more Continental European,
not a lot."

zanipolo
25-10-12, 09:46
I had mine done recently

Most likely fit is 100% Europe (various subcontinents)
The following are possible population sets and their fractions,
most likely at the top
English= 0.341 Tuscan= 0.659 or
French= 0.493 Tuscan= 0.507 or
Irish= 0.271 Tuscan= 0.729 or

Spain= 0.522 Romania= 0.478 or
Hungary= 0.239 Italian= 0.761

Doug plotted me on the french-italian border basically around Nice

I preume tuscan means North_Italian same as FTDNA indicates

zanipolo
26-10-12, 09:21
I had mine done recently

Most likely fit is 100% Europe (various subcontinents)
The following are possible population sets and their fractions,
most likely at the top
English= 0.341 Tuscan= 0.659 or
French= 0.493 Tuscan= 0.507 or
Irish= 0.271 Tuscan= 0.729 or

Spain= 0.522 Romania= 0.478 or
Hungary= 0.239 Italian= 0.761

Doug plotted me on the french-italian border basically around Nice

I preume tuscan means North_Italian same as FTDNA indicates

Doug confirm in his tests, that tuscan is central italy and Italian is North-italy

zanipolo
01-11-12, 10:08
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Wilhelm
02-11-12, 01:39
I came out 100% Western Euro (all Spain)

joechill01
02-11-12, 07:25
Love to get in on this but where do you go on 23andme to get the raw genome data?

Kardu
02-11-12, 12:01
Love to get in on this but where do you go on 23andme to get the raw genome data?
Account ---> Browse Raw Data ---> Download Raw Data

You'd need full genome for McDonald. Not YDNA or MtDNA.

MMaximus
06-11-12, 00:56
Here is mine:

Most likely fit is 84.4% (+- 13.6%) Europe (all Western Europe)
and 15.6% (+- 13.6%) Europe (various subcontinents)
which is 100% total Europe

The following are possible population sets and their fractions,
most likely at the top
English= 0.782 Tuscan= 0.218 or
French= 0.620 English= 0.380 or
English= 0.751 Italian= 0.249 or
French= 0.795 Irish= 0.205 or
French= 0.899 Lithuani= 0.101 or
Irish= 0.629 Tuscan= 0.371
Second most likely fit is 88.7% (+- 1.7%) Europe (all Western Europe)
and 11.3% (+- 1.7%) Mideast (various subcontinents)

The following are possible population sets and their fractions,
most likely at the top
English= 0.897 Druze= 0.103 or
English= 0.853 Jewish= 0.147 or
English= 0.891 Armenian= 0.109 or
English= 0.879 Cypriot= 0.121 or
English= 0.909 Palestin= 0.091 or
English= 0.894 Georgian= 0.106

its English with something else from SE of there. Its unusual, but
in this case I actually suspect that Adygei/Armenian/Georgian might just
POSSIBLY be correct. Its not Jewish.

zanipolo
21-11-12, 08:18
my one from McDonald

http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/9995/233243bga12.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/203/233243bga12.png/)




http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/5864/233243bga2.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/6/233243bga2.png/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

Semitic Duwa
24-11-12, 01:19
I recently sent my raw genome data from 23andMe to Dr Doug McDonald for his BGA analysis. My paper ancestry is largely English with an emphasis upon Yorkshire and Suffolk. I have a substantial Norman ancestry too in terms of numbers of Norman-derived surnames in my family tree and from pedigrees and paper-trails.

The results were remarkably accurate. His PCA scattergram placed me firmly within the English cluster, with a small pull towards northern France which probably reflects this Norman ancestry.

Would other posters care to exchange their McDonald analysis results and experiences? I would welcome them.

My matrilineal grandfather's Y-DNA line goes back to Suffolk as well... I've read that this is one of the most germanic-leaning regions in England.

Some_jerk
19-03-13, 01:25
[QUOTE]"When he says "English" does that exclude Scottish and welsh and Irish?"

This is something I would also really like to know, and I can't seem to find a definitive answer.. does the category "English" mean "British" (Scots, Welsh, English) or does it just mean English?
To further confuse me my results came in as English 97%, but the green dot on my map was clearly covering Wales, and the red dot covering North Wales and NW England...
I went into this DNA stuff looking for more answers about ancestry and I came out with a hundred times more questions about what the ancestry data means!