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spongetaro
02-11-11, 21:57
Germany’s ruling party (CDU) wants to introduce a minimum wage by law.

It is quite surprising that the idea cames from a right wing party .
Even the SPD (Left) under Gerhard Schröder carried out liberal policies to reform the labor market and increase the competitivity of German industry which was quite effective given that Germany is now the third World exporter (it was the second not long time ago).

Sile
02-11-11, 23:16
Germany’s ruling party (CDU) wants to introduce a minimum wage by law.

It is quite surprising that the idea cames from a right wing party .
Even the SPD (Left) under Gerhard Schröder carried out liberal policies to reform the labor market and increase the competitivity of German industry which was quite effective given that Germany is now the third World exporter (it was the second not long time ago).

minimum wage is to stop "slave labour" systems used by businesses. Minimum wage is the correct way to go for the populace IF and I repeat IF there is a system which fines companies heavily that use non-citizens so that they can pay people below minimum wage.

Anton, Bear's den
03-11-11, 00:34
And how much that wage will be?

spongetaro
03-11-11, 00:51
And how much that wage will be?

7.79 euros per hour

Antigone
03-11-11, 06:50
I find it surprising that Germany doesn't already have a minimun wage. How does Germany stop the exploitation of workers without a fixed minimum wage?

Mzungu mchagga
03-11-11, 16:07
In contrast to what many people would probably believe in, the main exploitation in Germany doesn't take place in factories or big companies (which usually have a good presence of labour unions), but in smaller enterprices in the non-production sector. Typical professions include laundry, kitchens, sanitation, hair-dressers or nursing assistants. As these professions would already imply, most of these employees are women, usually with low education, often also with a migrational background and a husband (if any) who doesn't earn much either.
On the other hand, especially for smaller companies a minimum wage would also mean to dismiss a lot of employees, which in turns would rise unemployment, a rise in social welfare spendings and perhaps even emigration of smaller businesses. So my suggestion would be to lower the taxes for low-wage jobs (perhaps up to 8€ per hour). I wouldn't worry about the loss of taxes, because a lot of it is invested into bullshit anyway.

Anton, Bear's den
03-11-11, 16:39
7.79 euros per hour

It's high salary. What about cost of utilities? How much costs liter of gasoline in Germany?

Mzungu mchagga
03-11-11, 23:20
With an hour wage of 7.79€ you'd earn about 1340€ per month with full-time employment. There is a complicated taxation system in Germany, which depends on individual criteria like married/unmarried, children/no children, both spouses earning money or one only etc... Subtracted are costs for salary tax, church tax [popular misconception: Germany is not a secular country!!!], pension tax, unemployed insurance, health insurance, disability insurance.

So with a salary of 1340€, about 980€ per month [single person, no children, like me] would be left, which of course is still high for international standards. With further private insurances, food, gasoline for the car or public transport tickets, and of course the appartment rent with all electricity, water and heating costs, about at least 300€ should be left for private use. This is VERY FAIR I think, and nobody should complain about it!

If you have children and are unmarried or divorced, there'll be about 30€ more per month [1010€], which of course gets a little more complicated considering you have one or more children. Going on vacation or regularly into restaurants or on parties is surely impossible then. But survival should be save! It is up to the observer to argue whether this is fair or not. For Western consumer life-style standards surely not, for international standards surely yes...

sparkey
03-11-11, 23:45
What percentage of current workers in Germany who have wages below 7.79€/hour are youth? Probably pretty high? I always worry about increases in youth unemployment with high minimum wages. The correlation is real (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203440104574402820278669840.html) (but complicated (http://www.federalreserve.gov/pubs/feds/2003/200323/200323pap.pdf)).

Mzungu mchagga
04-11-11, 22:24
What percentage of current workers in Germany who have wages below 7.79€/hour are youth? Probably pretty high? I always worry about increases in youth unemployment with high minimum wages. The correlation is real (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203440104574402820278669840.html) (but complicated (http://www.federalreserve.gov/pubs/feds/2003/200323/200323pap.pdf)).

First of all I have to correct that 7.79€ only referred to subcontracted workers. CDU didn't mention any minimum wage yet, I think 7.50€ were debated.

Interesting question you gave, but I couldn't find any statistics to it. The German Office for Statistics defines "risk of poverty" with a monthly income of less than 940€, which is 15.6% of the population. However, it doesn't define "poverty" itself. Moreover, I don't know how this percentage was made up, because including all the unemployed, half-time workers, non-working housewifes, retireds and students this figure seems way too low for me, so it is probably employed people only, I don't know.

ultralars
05-01-12, 11:32
Before the minimum wage was intreduced in USA, they payed the highest salaries and produced the cheapest stuff. Thats because people like Henry ford found a correlation between productivity and payment/time off.

The same correlation we can see in France where they have the most time off and also produce the most value in an hour of work.

The minimum wage would probably be in Germany's current situation beneficial. but i think that the poor people would be better off if other reforms where carried trough that would lead the society towards less bureaucracy.

Not that i know much about Germany :P just been listening to alot of Peter Schiff.

sparkey
05-01-12, 17:14
Before the minimum wage was intreduced in USA, they payed the highest salaries and produced the cheapest stuff. Thats because people like Henry ford found a correlation between productivity and payment/time off.

There are other reasons that labor costs increase in a country than minimum wage increases. Wages for assembly line workers in the US is probably a good deal higher than minimum wage here right now. So the reason that the US has faltered in manufacturing is more complicated than minimum wage increases.

But I still think that governments should be very cautious with minimum wages. Wages are often inflexible ("sticky") and it is often more beneficial for companies, when faced with minimum wages, to lay off workers than to increase every employee's wages. The danger is especially sharp for unskilled workers, which includes almost all youth.


Not that i know much about Germany :P just been listening to alot of Peter Schiff.

Schiff has been right about some important things; I'd tend to trust him on this topic.

ultralars
06-01-12, 16:53
here is a video of Peter Schiff talking about the issue of minimum wage, just thought i'd share that. it's only the first 6 minute thats relevant tough, rest is about his news politically which don't matter cause it's 2009.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_IMuxMXd3E&feature=g-vrec&context=G281600cRVAAAAAAAABw

LeBrok
06-01-12, 17:16
Keep in mind that minimum wage is not needed in good economies. In good economy there is always a shortage of labour, therefore everyone has a job and well paid.
If you have to introduce minimum wage it means that there is something wrong with your economy in general, and this issue should be addressed first.

Sueco
08-01-12, 01:59
Not that surprising, to be honest. Sweden doesn't have one, either :) I think both Germany and Sweden worked on the basis of collective bargaining in each industry to set necessary minimum wages.

Cimmerianbloke
09-01-12, 01:12
Germany’s ruling party (CDU) wants to introduce a minimum wage by law.

It is quite surprising that the idea cames from a right wing party .
Even the SPD (Left) under Gerhard Schröder carried out liberal policies to reform the labor market and increase the competitivity of German industry which was quite effective given that Germany is now the third World exporter (it was the second not long time ago).

I am not surprised as Bismarck was the first to introduce social welfare in Europe, and he was rather conservative. It has a lot to do with depriving the political opponents of a potential electoral weapon, as it was the case for Bismarck.

clark85
10-01-12, 11:10
I find it surprising that Germany doesn't already have a minimun wage. How does Germany stop the exploitation of workers without a fixed minimum wage?

That's not entirely true. Germany has a fixed minimum wage in many sectors, which is negotiated between workers unions and employers. Those minimum wages usually then cover the whole industrie. Thus there are quite a lot of workers secured by a minimum wage in Germany.

The sectors not covered and heavily influenced by not having a minimum wage were pointed out somewhere above.
Those people would probably heavily profit from a minimum wage, even though a tax reduction on very low incomes is discussed as well and would maybe prevent layoffs caused by a minimum wage.

PonosBosne
13-02-12, 21:02
7.79 euros per hour


Damn that is really good in dumbass America it's $7.25 an hour!

cycle
22-02-12, 10:33
Britain has had a minimum wage since 1998.
It was brought in by Tony Blair - One of the pledges he stuck to.
At the time the Conservative Party said that it was a bad thing for the country and that it would lead to mass unemployment.
After it was introduced unemployment went down rather than up. So in my opinion it was justified.
The gap between rich and poor however seems to have broadened rather than shrunk.

sparkey
22-02-12, 17:37
Britain has had a minimum wage since 1998.
It was brought in by Tony Blair - One of the pledges he stuck to.
At the time the Conservative Party said that it was a bad thing for the country and that it would lead to mass unemployment.
After it was introduced unemployment went down rather than up. So in my opinion it was justified.

You're misinterpreting the data. Unemployment in the UK had already been trending downward at the time. The problem is, the rate at which unemployment continued to trend downward decreased after the minimum wage was introduced, especially among young people. That's exactly the problem. Unemployment among youth in the UK began to increase as early as 2002, while the general population didn't see that until 2006. That's the kind of measurable effect that minimum wages have.

Some data (http://www.poverty.org.uk/35/index.shtml).

At least the UK has a lower minimum wage for 18-20 year olds, I think that's a good idea.

Brett142
17-03-12, 02:59
I both agree and disagree with the minimum wage. On one hand, yes it provides people with a standard of living but on the other hand does it strangle an economy when it's at it's weakest. In the UK it is £6.09 but what if companies were allowed to pay say £4 for a year. It would certainly boost the UK's ailing economy at the moment. But then again, those £4 jobs would probably be snapped up by immigrants and not domestic residents.

I'm sorry but I'd much rather work for £4 an hour than be on unemployment benefit.

sparkey
18-04-12, 17:30
Again, some Pan-European update.

Interesting. To me, this reads: "There's high unemployment in Europe, and certain countries are in need of drastic economic reform. So, we're pursuing an agenda that will increase unemployment, and reform mainly one of the few countries that doesn't really need it."

LeBrok
19-04-12, 03:28
Nicely summed up Sparkey.

Frank Wall
18-05-12, 15:58
I'd be of the opinion that constant reform is important across all countries, regardless of the level of need. Everywhere, you can find problems, no matter how perfect the situation. In Germany, its about time the minimum wage was given consideration.

Cimmerianbloke
18-05-12, 16:12
Actually, it's quite tricky here in Germany as 7,79€ per hour would be a massive hike in salaries in Berlin and the ex-DDR Länder, but would still leave Bavarians and Hamburgers struggling at the end of the month. Disparities between ex-communist and western Germany can be huge. For example, my own salary is slightly under it, and I am the second-best paid worker at my hotel, with a 25% night premium compared to my day-shift colleagues.