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kgnju
26-11-11, 10:16
Now all the world admit that EURO crisis is putting Europe in big trouble! But everything has different sides. Would this crisis become a chance for further European integration?
And another related question for my friends in EU: if EU defeat this crisis in the future, would Europe become more federalist one as Germany had always wished or more intergovernmentalist as UK had always wished?
Your opinion, please!Thanks!

Cimmerianbloke
26-11-11, 12:42
The crisis has led the citizens facing the reality some "intolerant natrionalists" pointed at in the 1980es; some countries were not mature enough to join the EU and reform their economies to play the game by the rules. The collapse of the Berlin Wall left a taste of victory into liberal mouths, that thought they could achieve anything. It didn't last long to prove them wrong. Mediterranean cultures are deeply encroached into their own lifestyle and cultures, and you're not going to turn a Greek fisherman into a German factory worker just with the stroke of a pen. Hopefully, the outcome of this crisis will be to let everything coming back to normal and have a EU that takes into account the industrialisation level of each member and treat them on a unique basis. Common policies for countries as different as Norway and Portugal were always nonsense. Too bad it took the worst financial crisis ever for policy-makers to admit (because they knew it but would not otherwise admit it).

Cimmerianbloke
26-11-11, 16:43
The common market basis has never been put into doubt, freedom of movement and capital is not the issue. Political Europe and the EU as an institution is where all the problems stem. The Eurozone badly needs to be reformed before it imploses, if it's not already too late.

Spion Stirlitz
26-11-11, 17:17
Mediterranean cultures are deeply encroached into their own lifestyle and cultures, and you're not going to turn a Greek fisherman into a German factory worker just with the stroke of a pen.

:shocked:

Well, but I think that the Greek fisherman has a lot to be happy about, if he knows how to appreciate it... the Sun, the Sea,... instead of "living" his life under "ergonomically designed and calculated", artificial light.

On the other hand, I think that it sounds a little hard to put the blame on somthing like "culture". Maybe the field was not so leveled from the start as many here think.

Do you know that Turkey is growing 9% this year? The same country that some consider unworthy to even been considered inside Southern Europe.

Is the Otoman culture superior to that of Greece or Italy?


Hopefully, the outcome of this crisis will be to let everything coming back to normal and have a EU that takes into account the industrialisation level of each member and treat them on a unique basis. Common policies for countries as different as Norway and Portugal were always nonsense. Too bad it took the worst financial crisis ever for policy-makers to admit (because they knew it but would not otherwise admit it).

I hope that the final result will not be a great idea like.

"Mitteleuropa produces high value industrial products. You south countries just buy under our conditions (Don't forget to say "thanks")"

That would remind me somthing supposedly finished long ago.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Dude, it will be a tough time for people get a visa...

From China to Europe?

Or from Greece to Germany? :D

Cimmerianbloke
26-11-11, 18:39
You're dead right, some of the not so competitive economies have a lot to boast about, healthy lifestyles, sun, sea, food and wine cultures, all went down when they joined the EU and above all the Eurozone. Spain used to be a great destination in the 70es, 80es and 90es, but when Spain joined the Euro, prices skyrocketed and it lead to booming tourism in Tunisia, Morocco and Egypt because all of a sudden Spain became less affordable. Smae thing with Italy during the lira era.
As for Turkey, don't you understand the growth factor is not important. As a citizen, I don't want to see an islamic country join the Union, like the majority of Europeans. Anyway, as the Union doesn't work now, no need to add new members to even make it more unmanageable.

Franco
26-11-11, 18:55
You're dead right, some of the not so competitive economies have a lot to boast about, healthy lifestyles, sun, sea, food and wine cultures, all went down when they joined the EU and above all the Eurozone. Spain used to be a great destination in the 70es, 80es and 90es, but when Spain joined the Euro, prices skyrocketed and it lead to booming tourism in Tunisia, Morocco and Egypt because all of a sudden Spain became less affordable. Smae thing with Italy during the lira era.
As for Turkey, don't you understand the growth factor is not important. As a citizen, I don't want to see an islamic country join the Union, like the majority of Europeans. Anyway, as the Union doesn't work now, no need to add new members to even make it more unmanageable.

Spain is still a reasonably cheap touristic destination. Spain's tourism is in fact the sole economic sector that has improved despite of the crisis. I can't recall a single year where number of tourists didn't increase with respect of the year before, maybe just 2009 when crisis just began to hit hard. So rise of prices and the euro currency are not a problem, on the contrary, it is convenient for toursits being able to pay in the same currency than theirs. I don't see North Africa as posing big competition because they may be even cheaper destinations, but safety also counts. They are less safe countries and that prevents many potential tourists from visiting them.