PDA

View Full Version : Native Americans Hailed From Siberian Highlands, DNA Reveals



DejaVu
31-01-12, 00:30
For nearly a century now, most scholars have agreed that the ancestors of Native Americans likely hailed from Siberia, trekking across the Bering Strait to Alaska via a long-gone land bridge. But certain aspects of the historic migration—including the settlers’ specific region of origin, when exactly they left it and what drove them to seek new lands—remain matters of debate to this day. A new DNA-based study published today in the American Journal of Human Genetics offers new insight into these questions.

Link: http://www.history.com/news/2012/01/26/native-americans-hailed-from-siberian-highlands-dna-reveals/

oriental
14-08-12, 00:17
scotese


If you look at this map there was an ice bridge from Europe to North America and also the sea level being 300 feet lower would make both the Black Sea and the Caspian Sea just tiny inland lakes. Black Sea would be cut off from the Mediterranean Sea. So I can see the Aryans Hg R1a and R1b both crossing these two "seas" along the shore lines as well as maybe dwelling in them as people in those days lived near water sources for themselves and their animals. The Persian Gulf was probably a site of habitation as it is shallow and got filled in with the Ice Age melting. I think Central Asia was more grassy as the summer ice melt would have bloomed and animals would have migrated in summer towards it. In winter the grazing animals would have gone to the slopes of the Himalayan Mountains.

The Amerindians would have Hg R1a and X along with Hg Q and MtDNA A, B, C, D. Ii would make sense if they lived in the Arctic as the region is survivable. From there they could have migrated to North America. Soft snow would be the upper most cover then compacted ice below. Look at any any glacier and it is just accumulated snowfall built up over many, many years.

The Altai mountains show a grassy region My personal feeling is that R1a and R1b, and Middle Eastern people have a pronounced nose is because of the diet from goat or cow's milk. Goat milk has a higher Calcium content so those who have goat milk in their culture would have large noses e.g. Arabs, Jews, French, Southern Europe, etc. Hg R split from Hg P when they domesticated the goat. So this brings in the question of the date of domestication of goats which could point to the Ice Age.

Twilight
16-10-12, 01:01
scotese


If you look at this map there was an ice bridge from Europe to North America and also the sea level being 300 feet lower would make both the Black Sea and the Caspian Sea just tiny inland lakes. Black Sea would be cut off from the Mediterranean Sea. So I can see the Aryans Hg R1a and R1b both crossing these two "seas" along the shore lines as well as maybe dwelling in them as people in those days lived near water sources for themselves and their animals. The Persian Gulf was probably a site of habitation as it is shallow and got filled in with the Ice Age melting. I think Central Asia was more grassy as the summer ice melt would have bloomed and animals would have migrated in summer towards it. In winter the grazing animals would have gone to the slopes of the Himalayan Mountains.

The Amerindians would have Hg R1a and X along with Hg Q and MtDNA A, B, C, D. Ii would make sense if they lived in the Arctic as the region is survivable. From there they could have migrated to North America. Soft snow would be the upper most cover then compacted ice below. Look at any any glacier and it is just accumulated snowfall built up over many, many years.

The Altai mountains show a grassy region My personal feeling is that R1a and R1b, and Middle Eastern people have a pronounced nose is because of the diet from goat or cow's milk. Goat milk has a higher Calcium content so those who have goat milk in their culture would have large noses e.g. Arabs, Jews, French, Southern Europe, etc. Hg R split from Hg P when they domesticated the goat. So this brings in the question of the date of domestication of goats which could point to the Ice Age.

Wait a mitute, are you saying that Haplogroup R originated in the Middle East/ Zargos Mountains? The Ket people of Native Russians are said to be descendants of the earliest inhabitants of the Siberian Area with predominate Haplogroup Q could there be a link besides Ket legends to the Zargos Mountains.

oriental
16-10-12, 01:29
http://planet.botany.uwc.ac.za/nisl/Gwen%27s%20Files/GeoCourse/Conservation%20Biology/Assignment%201/YWells.pdf

Here is a study you could look up. I am not a geneticist, I just use resources available and try to try to figure out the historical aspect and maybe what the situation was like. The environment was certainly conducive to "europeanize" facial features as there was grass aplenty for goats. Haplogroups N,O,P,Q,R were born later so they were in the eastern side of the Asian continent. The older groups all occupied the Middle East and Europe as they were closer to Africa. The younger always had to move farther away as the older had the ancestoral lands.

Twilight
16-10-12, 05:35
Okay, it looks like Goats were first Domesticated 8000 BC in the Zargos Mountains yet Europedia's Haplogroup page says that Haplogroup R first formed 26,000 BC in central Asia.

Twilight
16-10-12, 21:42
Thanks for the info :)

oriental
17-10-12, 22:14
What is discovered may be off by thousands of years. Archaeologists look for structure but rural or hunter-gatherers did things on the fly so to speak.. There was a lot of civilization in the steppes but because they used wood and other perishibles there are no traces of their style of living. The Steppe people also drank mare's milk.

Cattle was domesticated independently in three places West Africa, Middle East and Southern Asia. Look at all the milk and milk product eating population and you will see their features have pronounced nose bridges.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC384887/

Dual origins of Amerindians with Hg P in Central Siberia and second group from the Amur River and Sea of Okhotsk in Eastern Russia.

http://www.globaltvbc.com/dual+origin+theory+could+solve+mystery+of+first+ca nadians/61078/story.html

oriental
24-10-12, 22:34
M173 is Hg R1

MOESAN
25-10-12, 22:55
scotese

The Altai mountains show a grassy region My personal feeling is that R1a and R1b, and Middle Eastern people have a pronounced nose is because of the diet from goat or cow's milk. Goat milk has a higher Calcium content so those who have goat milk in their culture would have large noses e.g. Arabs, Jews, French, Southern Europe, etc. Hg R split from Hg P when they domesticated the goat. So this brings in the question of the date of domestication of goats which could point to the Ice Age.

please, let's forget about noses forms and size directly conditioned by diet: it is very too simplistic!!! Frenchies have a lot of different sizes and shapes of noses!!!

MOESAN
25-10-12, 23:02
http://planet.botany.uwc.ac.za/nisl/Gwen%27s%20Files/GeoCourse/Conservation%20Biology/Assignment%201/YWells.pdf

Here is a study you could look up. I am not a geneticist, I just use resources available and try to try to figure out the historical aspect and maybe what the situation was like. The environment was certainly conducive to "europeanize" facial features as there was grass aplenty for goats. Haplogroups N,O,P,Q,R were born later so they were in the eastern side of the Asian continent. The older groups all occupied the Middle East and Europe as they were closer to Africa. The younger always had to move farther away as the older had the ancestoral lands.

let's be carefull when speaking about environment pressure upon physical features: evolution needs some time to produce complicated results - we see today some very different people living in the same regions, sometimes with the exact same way of life and diet: and they did not take the same physical features or pigmentation... maybe if they could go back to ancient human conditions as some 50000 years ago and give birth to hundreds of generations, they could undergo a convergence at the end: I say hundreds and hundreds of generations without the present day adaptation capacity of Human beings...

MOESAN
25-10-12, 23:17
M173 is Hg R1

is that right ???

oriental
26-10-12, 00:27
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R1_%28Y-DNA%29


In human genetics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_genetics), Haplogroup R1 is a Y-chromosome DNA haplogroup (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Y-chromosome_DNA_haplogroup), a subgroup of haplogroup R (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R_%28Y-DNA%29), associated with the M173 mutation. It is dominated in practice by two very common Eurasian clades, R1a (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R1a) and R1b (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R1b), which together are found all over Eurasia except in Southeast Asia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southeast_Asia) and East Asia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Asia). However other types of R1, less well-known and undefined so far by any identified SNP, and therefore referred to collectively simply as R1* or R-M173*, have been reported in the Americas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americas), all over Asia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asia) and Oceania (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oceania).

Contents



http://exploring-africa.blogspot.ca/2008/01
/r1-m173-in-africa.html (http://exploring-africa.blogspot.ca/2008/01/r1-m173-in-africa.html)

R1*-M173 Chromosomes in Africa

R1*-M173 bearing chromosomes in Cameroon

MOESAN
26-10-12, 18:37
OK thanks
Excuse me, my poor brain was tired when I wrote that, I believe (I had understood Y-R1b) surely some piece I have to screw up again in my head...

Anthro-inclined
13-11-12, 06:06
My Dad Is Metis And His Mtdna Is X ( His Maternal Line Is Native). Does Anybody Know Its ? I Am Curious Because It Is Rarely Found In Asia

oriental
14-11-12, 01:26
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Haplogroup_X_%28mtDNA%29.PNG