PDA

View Full Version : Separate maps for J2a and J2b?



Yaan
06-02-12, 23:57
I wonder would it not be better if there is a separate columns for J2a and J2b.There is separate I2a and I2b and also R1a and R1b so I think it would be a really good idea to make the same for J2.One column could be called J2/J2a and the other J2b. They have quite different distribution. J2/J2a is found among Georgians, Chechens, Armenians, Turks,Greeks, Iranians. Bulgarians.Romanians, Italians,Vlach,Jews etc while J2b is found among Albanians, Greeks, Croats, Serbs and also Indians.
J2/J2a and J2b have different distribution and history, so as a J2/J2a myself I think it would be fair to separate them from the more vague J2.
I am really interested in genes and anthropology and I make this simply as a suggestion, the site is really really nice and informative.
I also have the feeling that J2 is somehow left in the background there is a lot of research and discussions on R1a,R1b but not on J2,one of the most typical European and Near Eastern haplogroups tightly connected to European history.
PS. Is the reason for the lack of J2a and J2b columns -the fact that there is no data and for the samples in simply says J2, most of the Bulgarian samples I am aware of are J2/J2a and most of the Albanian/Yugoslav one's are J2b, Greeks are both with more J2/J2a I think.

Yaan
12-02-12, 21:01
Nobody have nothing to say about this great idea? R1 is R1a and R1b, I2 is I2a and I2b it is about time the same to happen also for J2,J2a is different than J2b.J2a is connected with Indo European like Scythian also with Near East sea people and Jews.J2a is kinda always close to R1a and G2a.While J2b is typical for the Balkan,it is connected with E(V13) and I2a. Hope moderators and administrator would consider my idea. Cheers!

Yetos
12-02-12, 22:29
Nobody have nothing to say about this great idea? R1 is R1a and R1b, I2 is I2a and I2b it is about time the same to happen also for J2,J2a is different than J2b.J2a is connected with Indo European like Scythian also with Near East sea people and Jews.J2a is kinda always close to R1a and G2a.While J2b is typical for the Balkan,it is connected with E(V13) and I2a. Hope moderators and administrator would consider my idea. Cheers!

since when ?


there is a lot of J2b that is Indian IE

Yaan
13-02-12, 11:33
since when ?


there is a lot of J2b that is Indian IE


Since you have nothing productive to say do not write in my topics, I will stay away from yours!My family always fought against the evil Megali Nazi's!
To answer your question since Vriday 4 September 1901 he he he

Goga
13-02-12, 18:09
Nobody have nothing to say about this great idea? R1 is R1a and R1b, I2 is I2a and I2b it is about time the same to happen also for J2,J2a is different than J2b.J2a is connected with Indo European like Scythian also with Near East sea people and Jews.J2a is kinda always close to R1a and G2a.While J2b is typical for the Balkan,it is connected with E(V13) and I2a. Hope moderators and administrator would consider my idea. Cheers!Yeah, I do believe that J2 is connected to Iranic peoples from Kurdistan to Tajikistan. According to me the Iranic (also Indo-Iranic) languages emerged when J2 (with some G2a) folks and R1a (with R2a) folks mixed with each other.

The distance between R1a and R1b is more than 10,000 years. That's why both haplogroups are listed separate. It's almost the same distance as between J2 and J1.

The question is how big is the distance between J2a and J2b to call both haplogroups not really related to each other.

Btw, I asked Maciamo to call J2a also Iranic but he didn't respond to this recommendation.

Yaan
14-02-12, 00:36
Yeah, I do believe that J2 is connected to Iranic peoples from Kurdistan to Tajikistan. According to me the Iranic (also Indo-Iranic) languages emerged when J2 (with some G2a) folks and R1a (with R2a) folks mixed with each other.

The distance between R1a and R1b is more than 10,000 years. That's why both haplogroups are listed separate. It's almost the same distance as between J2 and J1.

The question is how big is the distance between J2a and J2b to call both haplogroups not really related to each other.

Btw, I asked Maciamo to call J2a also Iranic but he didn't respond to this recommendation.


Hey man!Great to see people that now the truth. I do think there is difference between J2a and J2b. And I also like you think J2a is typical Iranic and Indo European.It should be listed as Iranic, Cavkazian, South European.I also totally agree on your theory about Indo Europeans. Cheers!

Alan
16-02-12, 15:06
since when ?


there is a lot of J2b that is Indian IE

True but the distribution of J2b is not specially connect to High caste Indians but found throughout India and probably a product of older West Asian or Greek (Alexander the Great) gene flow, while J2a is specifically higher among high caste Indians and together with R1a and R2a also present in ALL Iranian tribes. Even the Yaghnobis, known to be descend of Sogdhians (Scythic tribe) are high in J2a as well.

Yetos
16-02-12, 16:35
Since you have nothing productive to say do not write in my topics, I will stay away from yours!My family always fought against the evil Megali Nazi's!
To answer your question since Vriday 4 September 1901 he he he


thanks for the insult,

but that does not change anything,

Aristotle said.

every science with out virtue, (include personal feelings) is not a science but a hoax,

i will not make what you ask, since without a dialogue there is no democracy,

Yetos
16-02-12, 16:38
Yeah, I do believe that J2 is connected to Iranic peoples from Kurdistan to Tajikistan. According to me the Iranic (also Indo-Iranic) languages emerged when J2 (with some G2a) folks and R1a (with R2a) folks mixed with each other.

The distance between R1a and R1b is more than 10,000 years. That's why both haplogroups are listed separate. It's almost the same distance as between J2 and J1.

The question is how big is the distance between J2a and J2b to call both haplogroups not really related to each other.

Btw, I asked Maciamo to call J2a also Iranic but he didn't respond to this recommendation.


J2a Iranic?

may I remind you that there are at least 2 J2a that are Greek autochthonus and trade mark of some Greeks,

in fact search the Pontic Greeks and the Cretans, they have primary J2a

Yetos
16-02-12, 16:41
Nobody have nothing to say about this great idea? R1 is R1a and R1b, I2 is I2a and I2b it is about time the same to happen also for J2,J2a is different than J2b.J2a is connected with Indo European like Scythian also with Near East sea people and Jews.J2a is kinda always close to R1a and G2a.While J2b is typical for the Balkan,it is connected with E(V13) and I2a. Hope moderators and administrator would consider my idea. Cheers!

since when Scythians were in Crete? especially the isolated east side?
are serious?

Yetos
16-02-12, 16:43
Nobody have nothing to say about this great idea? R1 is R1a and R1b, I2 is I2a and I2b it is about time the same to happen also for J2,J2a is different than J2b.J2a is connected with Indo European like Scythian also with Near East sea people and Jews.J2a is kinda always close to R1a and G2a.While J2b is typical for the Balkan,it is connected with E(V13) and I2a. Hope moderators and administrator would consider my idea. Cheers!

J2a close to R1a? maybe your next post is J2a is from Baltic? or Siberia?

Yetos
16-02-12, 16:56
True but the distribution of J2b is not specially connect to High caste Indians but found throughout India and probably a product of older West Asian or Greek (Alexander the Great) gene flow, while J2a is specifically higher among high caste Indians and together with R1a and R2a also present in ALL Iranian tribes. Even the Yaghnobis, known to be descend of Sogdhians (Scythic tribe) are high in J2a as well.

J2a is very High also in special parts of Greece and is considered autochthonus,
that means that devastations of some J2a never happened, when the formations of Historical nations did.
J2a and J2b is characteristic of probably older than R1a and R1b movements,
J2a and J2b exists from Iberia to India in zone that has mostly climate or among certain parallels,
J2b has devastation roads, while J2a not in that degree
we can not call all j2a as iranic or J2b as iranic or Greek or Indian and surely not schythian (N european- Siberian), since even in Italy in some parts J2b is high,
consider that both I and J come from IJ although seems that I is more european and J is more from soft climates from 10 parallel to 40 parallel with bigger concentrations in Asia, but unique mutations in Europe,

J2 is a HP that play great role in ancient times from South Europe and Mediterrenean to Levantine to Caucas to India,
for me it is a possible candidate in what we call IE if we consider it as palaiolithic language, or a pre-Hettit language,

Yaan
16-02-12, 16:57
J2a and R1a are markers of Indo Europeans. Greeks have it because of ancient Indo Europeans. The highest concentration of J2a is in Kavkaz not in Creta!R1b and J2b have a lot to do with Hellenics!J2a have nothing to do with Baltic!The birth place is more or mess what is called Kurdistan, people from there mixed with R1a people and Scythians and Iranics were born. The mixture of I2a2 and R1a people give birth to Slavs!
Not all J2a is the same. Majority of J2a in the Balkan is from Schytians,Bulgars, Avars etcs, but some of it is older and comes from Micenian Cyvilization,some of it comes from Phinicians. I think ancient Hellenics were J2b and R1b people.

Yaan
16-02-12, 16:59
N Schytians sounds like I1 Jewish he he. Schtians were like 60% R1a, 30% J2a the rest L,Q and some G2a.

Goga
16-02-12, 20:41
J2a Iranic?

may I remind you that there are at least 2 J2a that are Greek autochthonus and trade mark of some Greeks,

in fact search the Pontic Greeks and the Cretans, they have primary J2a
I'm not saying that J2a is ONLY Iranic, but it's ALSO Iranic. Look according to Eupedia J2a is Greco-Anatolian, Mesopotamian and Caucasian.

http://eupedia.com/europe/european_y-dna_haplogroups.shtml

But why not also Iranic. J2a is together with R1a the most common and widespread haplogroup among Iranic speaking folks. ALL Iranic speaking nations have this haplogroup.

Also according to this site only R1a is an Iranic haplogroup. But how is it possible that only 1 haplogroup is Iranic? All other ethnicities do belong to more than 1 haplogroup. So according to me it's impossible that proto-Iranic people belonged only to 1 haplogroup.

That's why I'm saying that J2a must be also called Iranic.

So, J2a must be mentioned as Greco-Anatolian, Mesopotamian, Caucasian AND Iranic!

Yetos
17-02-12, 03:37
J2a and R1a are markers of Indo Europeans. Greeks have it because of ancient Indo Europeans. The highest concentration of J2a is in Kavkaz not in Creta!R1b and J2b have a lot to do with Hellenics!J2a have nothing to do with Baltic!The birth place is more or mess what is called Kurdistan, people from there mixed with R1a people and Scythians and Iranics were born. The mixture of I2a2 and R1a people give birth to Slavs!
Not all J2a is the same. Majority of J2a in the Balkan is from Schytians,Bulgars, Avars etcs, but some of it is older and comes from Micenian Cyvilization,some of it comes from Phinicians. I think ancient Hellenics were J2b and R1b people.

J2a4 is typical of Cretans
J2a7 is typical of Pontic Greeks and Ioniian populations

what scythians?

J2a has nothing to do with Scythians,
R1a -M17 has to do with Scythians, Thracians etc

it is not J2a but J2axxxxxxx that counts

J2 is consider Caucasian HG but it has nothing to do with Nations we know today,
J2 either 2a or 2b was already spread much before,

J2b according the extra xxx after might be from Europe to India,


Now if you Believe that J2 + R1a is the IE Hg well that is another story,
and sorry if I have misunderstood,

you must specify which J2a or J2b you consider what,

For me J2a J2b might Be proto Greco-Aryan some parts and Indo-Iranic some others,
when same time all J2 might not even be IE but earlier, (Not Greco-Aryan Not Indo-iranian but whatever before, Farmers before the creations of Nations)

the case of IE gives R1b but can't easily explain the R1b of Basquez etc,
or R1a (m-17) But R1a is also high among some Turkic pop
J2a & J2b but can not explain why The North IE populations which do not have J2 speak IE

Now J2a can not Be Bulgarian but Pre-Bulgarian
J2a was in Balkan before the arrival of Bulgarians

to be more specific at least for Me
Bulgars or Balkars as I read it in an older text are consider Turkic tribe, which Moved to Balkans from the pass of Black sea (Cerno-More) and not from the Pass of Serbs,
Bulgars also had N Y-DNA and local Volga around HG
Bulgars were Minority but manage to Create a city and a state,
In order to survive cooperate with Severi a Slavic tribe, Creating the nation that today is called Bulgaria,
But People lived there much before the arrival of Bulgars
It is not strange that culture of what today all call Thracians passed to Greeks to Bulgarians Romanians Turks etc,

Now about E-V13 Taranis comparing the Iberian finding suggest that is Neolithic,
Personally I believe that is Imported at chalcolithic era from Arcado-Cypriots, and that is why we can not consider it as a founder effect,
it Seems like either Thracians ruled upon E-V13 either E-V13 came to Greece at 2000 BC and slowly expand North,
Thracians surely were not E-V13

now about I Hg, my question is always this, Since I and especially I2a2 has exactly the area were Thracians were expand, could it be Thracian marker?

now about R1b and If I remember well is M-23 you are right, it might be mycenean proto-Greek, with minor asian origin

But according History Greeks and Hellenes origin is Upper Thessaly, South Upper Makedonia, South Epirus and Phthia, that area has enough concentration of R1a which takes a corridor south, and expands in Doric Colonies in S.Italy,

the ratio M-17/M-198 that exists among Greek R1a is same with Scandinavian-Norwegian, S Italy and Kurdish, that means that probably Thracians were Aryan R1a not Scythian that passed from minor Asia to Balkans creating Greeks and Thracians and Getae and Getae moved to GothLand

that is an unproven theory, but has some small possibilities, and I strongly support it

the other possibility is That R1b came from minor Asia even to Kurgan and moved west when R1a came, and R1a came from North The Baltic (Tracians were mix of Balto-Germanic R1a+ Celtic+anatolian R1b)

the 3rd possibility is that if Greeks had no R1a then R1a is medieval Slavic or Bulgarian,
That drops to a paradox cause only in Doric colonies we find bigger quantities of R1a than in any other Greek population. while Trikka the march center of Dorians is in the Heart of R1a concentration.

the 4rth possibility is that Bryges were R1a and the R1a in Greeks and in Kurds is Brygian
(Gordium)


the sure is that Avars Bulgars had not J2 and E-V13 But I and R1a and N HGs
remember that tribes also adopt or kidnaped children and orphans to raise them as their own,
Farmers and simple people obey the warriors,

in Fact the 'hole' in west Balkans, an area of almost 0 J2 and Big R1a gives clear that there was limited cooperation among these 2

J2 is not a Northen HG


Sory Yaan but from The little I know I can not accept that J2 has to do with Avars and Bulgars and Scythians, But with what we call South IE (Greco-Aryan, Indo-Iranian, and maybe Celts also) or a totaly non IE population that existed much before the expansion of IE, and adopted IE,
It was here much Before, the existance of J2a especially in areas were non of the above or relative step proves so,

although Until tombs DNA tests prove another theory,
my point is that,

Yetos
17-02-12, 03:52
I'm not saying that J2a is ONLY Iranic, but it's ALSO Iranic. Look according to Eupedia J2a is Greco-Anatolian, Mesopotamian and Caucasian.

http://eupedia.com/europe/european_y-dna_haplogroups.shtml

But why not also Iranic. J2a is together with R1a the most common and widespread haplogroup among Iranic speaking folks. ALL Iranic speaking nations have this haplogroup.

Also according to this site only R1a is an Iranic haplogroup. But how is it possible that only 1 haplogroup is Iranic? All other ethnicities do belong to more than 1 haplogroup. So according to me it's impossible that proto-Iranic people belonged only to 1 haplogroup.

That's why I'm saying that J2a must be also called Iranic.

So, J2a must be mentioned as Greco-Anatolian, Mesopotamian, Caucasian AND Iranic!

hmmm interesting View,

Let me give another View, the Linguistic Group,
Is Indo-Iranian same Language with Greco-Aryan?

Yaan
17-02-12, 09:56
J2a together with R1a is the marker of the Schytians! Original Indo Europeans were R1a,J2a and G2a and mixed with E(V13) local European I1,I2a and I2a people.I have no idea where the R1b comes from Anatolia or Central Asia.
Bulgar and Bulgarians is different!
Bulgars are R1a/J2a warriors on horses that come to the Balkan from European Russia in 5-7 century. They are of Schythian stock and spoke and Indo European language. They were Iranians.
Bulgarians are people created in 7-9 centery after the mixture of Bulgars(R1a/J2a), Slavs (I2a/R1a) and Trachians( E(V13)/G2a/R1b), also some Hellenics J2b/R1b, Goths I1/I2b and later also Kumans( I do not know probably R1a. In Ottoman time some Saxons from Transilvania, Vlach and Christian Albanians become Bulgarians!
Balkars are R1a, J2a,G2a people that live in the Kavkaz and speak a Turkic(nothing to do with Turkish) language and have ,noting to do with Bulgarians or Bulgars!
J2a is the higest among Chechens and Georgians, followed by Iranic folks, Ashkenazi Jews, Greeks, Italians and Bulgarians!
Also make note two different things:
Hellenics R1b/J2b people lived in the Greece and Turkey and Sicily territory before the Romans, later most of them were part of the Eastern Roman Empire.
Greeks people crated in the Middle Ages after mixture of Hellenics(R1b/J2b), Slavs(I2a/R1a) some Bulgars(J2a/R1a),some Christian Arabs(J2a/J1/R1b) and Armenians and Georgians! So make difference between these things!

Yaan
17-02-12, 10:01
Also I never said J2a is northern haplogroup!It is from Kurdistan and later on mixed with R1a which is Central Asian and crated the Indo Europeans!
Northern haplogroup is I1,N and I2b.
E(V13) is highest among Albanians, Serbs and Bulgarians 99% it was number one haplogroup in Trachians! Stop with this R1b non sense, that was the haplogorup of the poor peasants in the west.

Yetos
17-02-12, 22:45
J2a together with R1a is the marker of the Schytians! Original Indo Europeans were R1a,J2a and G2a and mixed with E(V13) local European I1,I2a and I2a people.I have no idea where the R1b comes from Anatolia or Central Asia.
Bulgar and Bulgarians is different!
Bulgars are R1a/J2a warriors on horses that come to the Balkan from European Russia in 5-7 century. They are of Schythian stock and spoke and Indo European language. They were Iranians.
Bulgarians are people created in 7-9 centery after the mixture of Bulgars(R1a/J2a), Slavs (I2a/R1a) and Trachians( E(V13)/G2a/R1b), also some Hellenics J2b/R1b, Goths I1/I2b and later also Kumans( I do not know probably R1a. In Ottoman time some Saxons from Transilvania, Vlach and Christian Albanians become Bulgarians!
Balkars are R1a, J2a,G2a people that live in the Kavkaz and speak a Turkic(nothing to do with Turkish) language and have ,noting to do with Bulgarians or Bulgars!
J2a is the higest among Chechens and Georgians, followed by Iranic folks, Ashkenazi Jews, Greeks, Italians and Bulgarians!
Also make note two different things:
Hellenics R1b/J2b people lived in the Greece and Turkey and Sicily territory before the Romans, later most of them were part of the Eastern Roman Empire.
Greeks people crated in the Middle Ages after mixture of Hellenics(R1b/J2b), Slavs(I2a/R1a) some Bulgars(J2a/R1a),some Christian Arabs(J2a/J1/R1b) and Armenians and Georgians! So make difference between these things!


sory pal no way,

You are re-writing History as you Like It.

Bulgars belong to Huno-Bulgars tribes and were relatives of Hunes,

Not Iranian warriors But Turkic,
Their original name was Bal-gar (five clans) (Balgars) watch onghondor Balkar or onogudur Bulgar
Turkic Bal simmilar Turkish Bas = 5

the later slavication was after their mix and cooperation with Severi,

I still do not understand what you want to prove? That Balgars were IE and Iranian?
or that J2a and R1a came to wide area of Thrace (Balkans) in Medieval times with Slavic and Balgar invasion?

and still you haven't answer me, which part of J2a you consider as Scythian?
All J2a clusters?

Yaan
18-02-12, 11:01
sory pal no way,

You are re-writing History as you Like It.

Bulgars belong to Huno-Bulgars tribes and were relatives of Hunes,

Not Iranian warriors But Turkic,
Their original name was Bal-gar (five clans) (Balgars) watch onghondor Balkar or onogudur Bulgar
Turkic Bal simmilar Turkish Bas = 5

the later slavication was after their mix and cooperation with Severi,

I still do not understand what you want to prove? That Balgars were IE and Iranian?
or that J2a and R1a came to wide area of Thrace (Balkans) in Medieval times with Slavic and Balgar invasion?

and still you haven't answer me, which part of J2a you consider as Scythian?
All J2a clusters?

Bulgars Huns he he, sounds like Finish people Jews he he! You are clueless! You do not know the difference between Bulgar, Balkar and Bulgarians how pathetic and sad!
So in short Bulgars were IE R1a, J2a people
Slavs were I2a,R1a
Thrachains were E(V13),G2a ,R1b
Hellenics were J2b,R1b
Majority of J2a in Bulgarians and Romanians comes from Bulgars! I do not care about Greeks and where their genes come from. Also stop writing in my topic if you have nothing to say! The topic is should there be separate maps! Not a poor Greek attacking the mighty Bulgarians!

Yetos
18-02-12, 21:15
Bulgars Huns he he, sounds like Finish people Jews he he! You are clueless! You do not know the difference between Bulgar, Balkar and Bulgarians how pathetic and sad!
So in short Bulgars were IE R1a, J2a people
Slavs were I2a,R1a
Thrachains were E(V13),G2a ,R1b
Hellenics were J2b,R1b
Majority of J2a in Bulgarians and Romanians comes from Bulgars! I do not care about Greeks and where their genes come from. Also stop writing in my topic if you have nothing to say! The topic is should there be separate maps! Not a poor Greek attacking the mighty Bulgarians!

well since you insist,
go tell wiki, and the rest encyclopedias,
to rewrite History,
write a new History of medieval times, and say your claims

Rasho Rashev, Die Protobulgaren im 5.-7. Jahrhundert, Orbel, Sofia, 2005

Benzing J 1959 Das Hunnische

Yaan
19-02-12, 00:30
well since you insist,
go tell wiki, and the rest encyclopedias,
to rewrite History,
write a new History of medieval times, and say your claims

Rasho Rashev, Die Protobulgaren im 5.-7. Jahrhundert, Orbel, Sofia, 2005

Benzing J 1959 Das Hunnische


Wiki he he, you though Balkar, Bulgar and Bulgarian is the same think, you probably also think the Ancient Hellenic and you are exactly the same, so no point to argue with you. Try Bakalov, Dimitrov and Dobrev, Rashev may he Rest in Piece, did not got everything right. A great Historian though.

Alan
19-02-12, 03:14
J2a Iranic?

may I remind you that there are at least 2 J2a that are Greek autochthonus and trade mark of some Greeks,

in fact search the Pontic Greeks and the Cretans, they have primary J2a

I didnt said anything like J2a is Iranic. It is as much not only Iranic as R1a/R2 BUT it has a strong present among them.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_peoples#Genetics


Two Y-DNA Haplogroups are supposed to be connected with Iranic people Haplogroup J2 and R1a1.
J2a:

Haplogroup J2 especially the subcadle J2a is frequently found among almost all groups of Iranic people. In comparison with the Haplogroup R1a1, J2 is not only restricted to geographically eastern and western Iranic populations, but also found among north-western and south-western Iranic populations such as the Bakhtiaris and Mazanderani,[68][69] as well as geographically north-western Iranic Ossetians.[70] Despite its supposed origin in the fertile crescent, J2a is also found among Iranic populations in the east such as the Yagnobi which are of Soghdian origin[71] as well as the Parsis of India.[72] Beside the relatively high percentage among the Yagnobis in Central Asia, other Iranic populations tend to have a higher frequency of J2a when compared to neighboring Turkic populations. The relatively strong presence of J2a among Ossetians as well as Yagnobis proves distant from the supposed Mesopotamian origin region of J2, are carriers of this Haplogroup.

In the Indo-Iranian context, the occurrence of J2a in South Asia is limited to caste populations, with the highest frequencies found among northern areas of South Asia.[73][74] Compared with R1a1, J2a shows a more conservative distribution, stronger limited to Indo-Iranian origin groups.[73]

Yetos
19-02-12, 22:10
I didnt said anything like J2a is Iranic. It is as much not only Iranic as R1a/R2 BUT it has a strong present among them.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_peoples#Genetics

Sory Alan but the post was not for you,

Yetos
19-02-12, 22:16
Wiki he he, you though Balkar, Bulgar and Bulgarian is the same think, you probably also think the Ancient Hellenic and you are exactly the same, so no point to argue with you. Try Bakalov, Dimitrov and Dobrev, Rashev may he Rest in Piece, did not got everything right. A great Historian though.


Bulgars Iranian warriors?, and not Huno-Bulgars ?????

No further comment,

Yaan
04-06-12, 17:19
When are J2a and J2b map coming? You do not have a map called I or a map called R1!So please make a map J2a and J2b. It would also be nice to make separate maps for E-V13,E-V12 and E-V22. Then it would be clear.
I guess 85-90% of the European J2 is J2a, but still it would be nice to see it in a map. J2b is seen in Western Balkans and India, while J2a is Levant,Europe and Iran.Lets separate them! Why there is no map, is is dificult to make or no time. It would be great! Kind regards!

MarTyro
04-06-12, 23:27
@Yaan: Maciamo didn't update his maps in the last months. I guess the scientific papers (sources) (http://www.eupedia.com/europe/origins_haplogroups_europe.shtml#Sources) don't give enough information about J2-subgroups and more fine details. If you have time and interest try to create your own maps like sparkey (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/member.php?28826-sparkey) did for I2c (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?26803-I2c-frequency-and-diversity-maps). Surely you will learn much more about your HG.

5644