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bradmichaellittle
20-02-12, 05:39
Hi,
I have just completed a lot of research in to whether my grandfather was the
unacknowledged son of the British King George V (Reigned 1910 to 1936). The
details are in (The-Kings-Son.com) that lead me to this conclusion through
about 14 pieces of circumstantial evidence.

My Grandfather (and my Uncle) Y-DNA 111 marker results are shown at FTDNA Kit No.
207060. Their Hapologroup is R1b1a2a1a1b4 L21+ Z253- P66- P314.2- M37- M222-
L96- L226- L193- L159.2- L144- DF21-

The final piece of evidence that will clinch the deal is that I am presently
trying to convince some of King George V's known ancestors (i.e. their
decendants) to do a Y-DNA test. If there is a match with Kit No. 207060, then
I'll have the final piece of proof and my hypothesis will be true. IF NOT ....
then so be it, my hypothesis will be false.

King George V was genetically a German whose documented family tree goes back to
950AD, all from the Coburg region in Germany. His family line is called
"Wettin". If I ever get this final piece of proof, then it will perhaps help
with the triangulation re the origins of the L21+ Haplogroup line.

Are there any questions? I'm happy for constructive feedback.
Regards,
Brad
(The-Kings-Son.com)

Maciamo
20-02-12, 09:20
So far you have not proven anything since you don't have the data of George V. However, the Saxe-Coburg-Gotha being a family of East German origin (Thuringia at least since the 13th century, and Saxony-Anhalt before that), I can tell you that it is rather unlikely (but not impossible) that they belonged to haplogroup R1b-L21, as this is a subclade of R1b that is typical of Atlantic Europe. It is found in Germany, but mostly in West Germany, and at low frequencies. There is not a lot of Y-DNA data for Thuringia and Saxony-Anhalt at present, but the frequency of R1b-L21 is probably around 1% only. On the other hand it is about 35% in England, and over 50% in Wales and Scotland. Statistically it makes is far more likely, unless otherwise proven by testing confirmed members of the House of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha, that you are not descended from George V.

bradmichaellittle
20-02-12, 20:04
Maciamo,
Yes - thanks for confirming that R1b-L21 is a very rare Haplogroup for a German, and this adds to my reason to try for a match with a known King George V relative and my FTDNA Sample No. 207060 in a public forum i.e. I want the match verified in public, particularly now you have stated how unlikely it to be true! What you aren't factoring in is the analysis re the 14 pieces of evidence that I have collected and documented on the book (The-Kings-Son.com).

Q for Maciamo: If I do get a known King George V relative (there are 76 of them living today - I have listed them in the book) to do a Y-DNA test with FTDNA - and there is a match at the 67 marker level AND the Haplogroup (with my 207060 sample) - then would you be convinced of the son / father relationship between my Grandfather and King George V?
Regards,
Brad (The-Kings-Son.com)

Maciamo
20-02-12, 22:45
Q for Maciamo: If I do get a known King George V relative (there are 76 of them living today - I have listed them in the book) to do a Y-DNA test with FTDNA - and there is a match at the 67 marker level AND the Haplogroup (with my 207060 sample) - then would you be convinced of the son / father relationship between my Grandfather and King George V?
Regards,
Brad (The-Kings-Son.com)

Yes, a perfect or near-perfect match at 67 markers would be a strong evidence. If that happens (as it is still purely hypothetical), you should try to get an autosomal comparison with 23andMe or FTDNA's Family Finder. This would prove your claim beyond any doubt.

Nevertheless, even if you are descended from George V and can prove it through DNA, yours being an illegitimate branch, you shouldn't get your hopes up in being recognise as a family member by the Royal Family. George V's son, Edward VIII, was practically banished from his family for marrying a divorcee commoner - even though he was king and head of the family at the time ! The family never granted any nobility title to Wallis Simpson, and would not have recognised any children they would have had. Royalty and aristocracy is not so much about DNA than about upbringing and inheritance. If you were not born and raised a royal and did not inherit the title, then you are nothing to them.

bradmichaellittle
21-02-12, 05:01
Maciamo,
Thanks for the feedback - and helping to set the test re Y-DNA criteria ahead of time. Assuming I ever get one of these known King George V relatives to do their test, then I'll look at this Autosomal Comparison with FTDNA as well.

My intention is to just find out if this link to King George V it is true. Based on where I was 18 months ago - making such a King George V claim was a trillion to one shot (i.e. I no idea that such a link was even possible). So this situation is already right "out there" for me (and my extended family).

My extended family all feels pretty legitimate, and we are all successful in our own right. Thanks for the sage and realistic view re the BRF - I agree with you, I would expect no recognition. However it'll still be kinda cool just to know if the link is true OR not.

Cheers,
Brad (The-Kings-Son.com)

sparkey
21-02-12, 18:29
Good luck getting someone to do the test, Brad. Even if your hypothesis fails, I always like to have haplogroups of famous individuals tested.

FWIW Maciamo is right on target with his skepticism, in the meantime.

bradmichaellittle
22-02-12, 05:46
Sparkey,

Thank you for the best wishes.

If I do get a known Wettin family line man to do his Y-DNA test, then it'll be beneficial to the cause of DNA analysis for this forum and for the wider humanity cause of understanding our overall migration history. Knowing the Y-DNA info for a family that is documented back to 950AD will help us all a lot - irrespective of whether I get a match with my grandfather.

I'll post the "Wettin line man" Kit No. irrespective of the outcome.

Cheers,
Brad (The-Kings-Son.com)

pipinnacanus
22-02-12, 23:34
Hi,
I have just completed a lot of research in to whether my grandfather was the
unacknowledged son of the British King George V (Reigned 1910 to 1936). The
details are in (The-Kings-Son.com) that lead me to this conclusion through
about 14 pieces of circumstantial evidence.
(The-Kings-Son.com)

I will say that before spend the time to solicit royal heir to give DNA, which they will not do, you should first share this circumstantial evidence to support the case.

What I see on the web site you direct is not reliable of me. Making mention of the DaVinci code which is fictional as support is so far not making sense at all. This sound like lot of imaginations from someone.

The reason you ancestor get to early australia and own some lands in short time is that it is value at nothing in desert conditions at that time, with small demands for these lands by few settler. This is my opinion.

bradmichaellittle
25-02-12, 00:29
* The circumstantial evidence is documented and written up in the 146 page book at The-Kings-Son.com. If you are really interested you can read about it there, if not then this is ok as well.

* We shall see if I convince a known and documented George V relation to do their Y-DNA analysis .... it may take a few months. I am very hopeful that I will be able to convince one of them to do a Y-DNA test.

* 15% of Australia is good arable land (this includes all of Sydney), so your statement about it being totally desert is incorrect.

Thanks,
Brad (The-Kings-Son.com)

bradmichaellittle
08-03-12, 07:46
Hi,

I've been asked by a few people what is the ysearch.org code for my grandfather's Y-DNA sample. It is MSYKK (also FTDNA Kit No. 207060).

Also, I continue with my analysis with finding contact details for the 75 men I identified in the book, that will either prove or disprove my hypothesis that my grandfather was King George V's eldest son.

From the 75, I worked out that 15 are boys (i.e. under 18 years old – therefore not contactable), 11 are Windsor’s (i.e. they were not going to help me was my assumption), 3 had said “No” already, 2 had “Ignored” my initial approach, 1 was sick, 3 were very old.

So it is actually only 40 men that I can approach. Stay tuned.

Regards,
Brad (The-Kings-Son.com)

bradmichaellittle
14-03-12, 07:20
Sparkey or Maciamo,

If I do get one of these 40 men (known male line Wettin men) to do their Y-DNA test, then as you know their documented male line goes back to about 900AD (both individuals & location).

Do you know what the oldest confirmed Y-DNA sample is that is currently in the Y-DNA databases (ignoring Iceman etc)?

Independent of whether a Wettin man's Y-DNA matched my grandfather's - then having such a sample in the sysme appears to be like it will be very beneficial to the wider Genealogical community.

Regards,
Brad (The-Kings-Son.com)

sparkey
14-03-12, 17:10
Sparkey or Maciamo,

If I do get one of these 40 men (known male line Wettin men) to do their Y-DNA test, then as you know their documented male line goes back to about 900AD (both individuals & location).

Do you know what the oldest confirmed Y-DNA sample is that is currently in the Y-DNA databases (ignoring Iceman etc)?

Independent of whether a Wettin man's Y-DNA matched my grandfather's - then having such a sample in the sysme appears to be like it will be very beneficial to the wider Genealogical community.

Regards,
Brad (The-Kings-Son.com)

I'm not sure about the oldest line that can be traced genealogically, but Jean Manco keeps a summary of ancient DNA here (http://www.buildinghistory.org/distantpast/ancientdna.shtml). Maciamo also has a summary of his own here (http://www.eupedia.com/europe/ancient_european_dna.shtml).

bradmichaellittle
16-03-12, 05:47
Hi Sparkey,

I didn't phrase my question very well.

Do we know anyone in the community who has a Y-DNA sample in the system with confirmed and historically documented family tree that goes back to BEFORE 900 AD? If so, what is their ysearch code (and family line name)?

Thanks,
Brad (The-Kings-Son.com)

pipinnacanus
19-03-12, 23:19
Hi Sparkey,

I didn't phrase my question very well.

Do we know anyone in the community who has a Y-DNA sample in the system with confirmed and historically documented family tree that goes back to BEFORE 900 AD? If so, what is their ysearch code (and family line name)?

Thanks,
Brad (The-Kings-Son.com)

I do not mean this to hurt you or inflict any mean will. You seem serious and not a prankster or profiteer minded person in your delusion.
For this reason I strongly and with only good will suggest to you that you seek to talk to someone in the field of helping those who have psychiatric issues, and assessing where these delusions are coming from and why you manifest them.

Based on the specific you cite as 'evidence' there is literally not a ounce or shred of reason to base a rational conclusion that this is you paternal ancestor. I am sorry, and hope you come to the assistance you need to resolve your problems.

bradmichaellittle
20-03-12, 06:30
ALL,
* Please refer to my facebook account associated with (The-Kings-Son.com) if you wish to track my good news i.e. a known King George V relative has agreed to do his Y-DNA test. Ongoing detailed status updates will be posted there.


pipinnacanus,
* Do not provide such advice on a public blog - it is offensive, and ignorant.
* If you have read the book, then you could have dropped me an email with some questions. If you haven't read the book - then your last post continues a trend equal to your prior one on Australian geography.


Thanks,
Brad (The-Kings-Son.com)

sparkey
20-03-12, 06:43
ALL,
* Please refer to my facebook account associated with (The-Kings-Son.com) if you wish to track my good news i.e. a known King George V relative has agreed to do his Y-DNA test. Ongoing detailed status updates will be posted there.

Actually, this is great news. Will he be testing both STRs and SNPs? It would be great to get an in-depth look at both.

I'm still betting for a mismatch... more specifically, my bet is R1b but L21-. Is anyone here other than Brad betting for a match? If so, we could get a +rep wager going like we did for Ötzi.

bradmichaellittle
21-03-12, 00:41
Sparkey,

Yes - I will get the SNP tested, after I get the initial 67 marker STR results. I'll get the SNP tested - even if the STR doesn't match my uncle / grandfather .... as it'll then provide a complete picture for others.

Now ..... this is NOT to say that I'm not confident. I did a pre-"know the truth" survey with 12 of my immediate relatives (from all over the world), and the average was 74% ...... which is amazing. It should be between 0% and at best 1 in a million (0.000001%).

So, you may be at a disadvantage to bet against me - if you haven't read the book, and given it an objective review :wary2:. However, I'm on for the bet - as long as no one gets rude or insulting.

Cheers,
Brad (The-Kings-Son.com)

bradmichaellittle
01-04-12, 23:26
Sparkey,
I have a few clarifications, I'd like to get regarding "what a match" between my Uncle Eric's Y-DNA sample and "Wettin man" sample should look like. IF my hypothesis is correct ..... then my Uncle Eric is 5 generations away from Prince Albert (Queen Victoria's husband) and "Wettin man" is 6 generations from Prince Albert (Queen Victoria's husband). I've been looking at a few blogs and going back over your replies, I can now see that perhaps the Haplogroup may be veyr important.
1. Are you saying BOTH samples must have be the same i.e. R1b1a2a1a1b4 L21+ Z253- P66- P314.2- M37- M222-
L96- L226- L193- L159.2- L144- DF21- (which is from my Uncle Eric Kit No. 207060)?
2. Is matching of Haplogroup initially the most important criteria to establish a connection?
3. Based on the hypothetical relationship between my Uncle Eric and Wettin man .... what GD using 67 markers should there be?
4. Based on the hypothetical relationship between my Uncle Eric and Wettin man .... what GD using 111 markers should there be?
Appreciate your help.
Regards,
Brad

sparkey
01-04-12, 23:45
1. Are you saying BOTH samples must have be the same i.e. R1b1a2a1a1b4 L21+ Z253- P66- P314.2- M37- M222-
L96- L226- L193- L159.2- L144- DF21- (which is from my Uncle Eric Kit No. 207060)?

Yes, both absolutely must be L21+ for it to be a match. The SNP L21 dates approximately to the Bronze Age, and mismatching on that would mean that you match prior to that.


2. Is matching of Haplogroup initially the most important criteria to establish a connection?

It's necessary, but not sufficient, to match on your haplogroup.


3. Based on the hypothetical relationship between my Uncle Eric and Wettin man .... what GD using 67 markers should there be?
4. Based on the hypothetical relationship between my Uncle Eric and Wettin man .... what GD using 111 markers should there be?

Mutations are random, so it's not a precise number. A GD of less than 4 on 67 would be compelling evidence. 4, 5 or 6 will need closer inspection. 7+ and it's getting a bit far away.

bradmichaellittle
02-04-12, 01:04
Thanks Sparkey for helping me get some better clarity on this. I'm keen not do be doing any Monday morning quarterbacking.

I'm now getting to understand this better (I'm still on my "L plates"). FYI - "Wettin man" should get the Y-DNA kit in the next week.

I can see that once I get the 67 markers results, I'll then need to proceed with a Deep Clade test as well ..... therefore more time before I'll know if this is all rubbish.

Interesting about the 67 markers, as before I had the 67 marker test completed with my Uncle Eric (using FTDNA), I had prior to this had a 46 marker test completed by Uncle Eric's son (i.e. Jeffrey) (using Ancestry.com). Comparing the two (and adjusting the Ancestry.com markers to the FTDNA standard); there was one mismatch DYS447 = 25 (for Eric) and DYS447 = 26 (for his son).

Question 1 .... I see ultraviolet light can cause mutations .... could the high levels of sunshine in Sydney cause "extra" Y-DNA mutations vs other places with less sunshine i.e. Germany region (where Wettin man lives)?

Question 2 ..... what is your prediction for the Haplogroup of "Wettin man"?

Thanks once again,
Brad (The-Kings-Son.com)

sparkey
02-04-12, 02:19
Question 1 .... I see ultraviolet light can cause mutations .... could the high levels of sunshine in Sydney cause "extra" Y-DNA mutations vs other places with less sunshine i.e. Germany region (where Wettin man lives)?

It's doubtful that it would make a significant difference in a genealogical timeframe.


Question 2 ..... what is your prediction for the Haplogroup of "Wettin man"?

R1b-U106 is probably the safest guess, followed closely by R1a. I'm hoping for I2 of some flavor though... I2a2a is somewhat likely... as it would be the most famous I2 found so far. R1b already has lots of famous people known to have carried it.

bradmichaellittle
02-04-12, 07:55
Maciamo,

1. Do you agree that IF my Uncle Eric (FTDNA Kit No 207060) and "Wettin Man" are both Haplogroup L21+ AND GD <=7 @ 67 markers ..... then they are closely related?

2. I know you think L21+ is only a 1% chance ..... so what is your prediction for the Haplogroup of "Wettin man"?

Thanks,
Brad (The-Kings-Son.om)

bradmichaellittle
14-04-12, 23:38
Hi,

The results of the Y-DNA test is in from "Wettin Man" and I have a clear answer to my question "Was my Grandfather an "unacknowledged son" of King George V?"

Details are in (The-Kings-Son.com).

Thanks,
Brad

sparkey
15-04-12, 04:44
Hi,

The results of the Y-DNA test is in from "Wettin Man" and I have a clear answer to my question "Was my Grandfather an "unacknowledged son" of King George V?"

Details are in (The-Kings-Son.com).

Thanks,
Brad

Your website basically says that we need to buy your book to find out... So... this thread has basically turned into an advertisement for a book? That's not allowed under forum rules.

Unless you plan on telling us after a certain amount of time?

bradmichaellittle
15-04-12, 06:17
Sparkey,

I will be providing an overview of the result a bit later on.

However, there is a lot of detail - which is why I bothered to write it all down. It is too important a result to have documented on a blog. Up to others if they want the detail.

Regards,
Brad

bradmichaellittle
15-04-12, 06:26
The answer is No.

My grandfather is not KGV's son.

Brad

bradmichaellittle
15-04-12, 08:13
All,

It was an interesting balancing point, re what you put on these blogs. Given how I started this thread, then I decided I needed to provide "the answer". My website won't be having any spoiler in it though.

The details behind the answer are in the book, and it is quite complicated - if someone is REALLY interested they'll read the details. I have now have "on the record" a significant genealogical result - which I have decided to share and publish.

However, I "think" a book is where we publish research still - not blogs where the info gets lost, and are not usually well laid out analysis - like in a book.

If that isn't acceptable for this blog - then so be it. I have shared my info.

Thanks,
Brad

sparkey
15-04-12, 21:37
Don't get me wrong, it's fine that you want to keep the in-depth details in your book, and refer us to it, I was just worried that you were using this forum to simply advertize it. That's how a "Want to know the results? Just buy my book!" type of post comes across.

What is his haplogroup, by the way? I think that's the little detail most of us are interested in.

bradmichaellittle
17-04-12, 04:22
Well folks ....

I'll call it a day with this endeavor. It has been a blast, and thank you to many of you who helped me.

The 200 page book is now firmly out there, for someone in the future to consult re "how to do this?" and "if they want to know what the Y-DNA markers and haplogroup looks like for King George V and half of the modern day European Royalty" etc etc.

Thanks,
Brad (The-Kings-Son.com)

bradmichaellittle
02-05-12, 05:53
Hi,

I decided to finish the job off ..... I have paid for a Deep Clade test for this "Wettin Man" Y-DNA sample. So this way there will be his STR markers and Haplogroup as well (for King George V and half the Royal Houses in Europe).

I also made the book "The King's Son" available to be read for free (via ebook) - refer to the website if you are interested.

I'll let you all know when I get the Haplogroup info.
Thanks,
Brad (The-Kings-Son.com)

bradmichaellittle
27-05-12, 04:44
Hi,

Deep clade testing of my Wettin man continues .... anyone want to post any guesses as to what the final answer will be? Sparkey - you seemed toup to the challenge ..... anyone else?

BTW, I have also made the book available to be read for free.

Thanks,
Brad (the-kings-son.com)

sparkey
28-05-12, 02:16
Deep clade testing of my Wettin man continues .... anyone want to post any guesses as to what the final answer will be? Sparkey - you seemed toup to the challenge ..... anyone else?

Blind, without even looking at preliminary STR results or anything... maybe R1b-U106?

bradmichaellittle
31-05-12, 08:23
Hi folks,

Just when I thought the story was completed, a new potential twist in the “The King’s Son” story that has arisen.

Therefore I'll be delaying the posting of “Wettin Man's” Haplogroup information for another six weeks or so - whilst I await validation of this new information.



So please stay tuned. More details about this update are on my webpage and facebook page.

Regards,
Brad (the-kings-son.com)

(The book is available for free e-borrowing via Kindle - Amazon T&C's apply).

bradmichaellittle
14-07-12, 09:42
I now have the Haplogroup test result for "Wettin Man" i.e. the relative of King George V who did a Y-DNA test to help me work out the relationship wth my Grandfather (William James Shepherd). The details are posted on my facebook account associated with my "the-kings-son.com" website.

So the Royal Haplogroup for a large number of European Royal Houses who are relatives of King George VI, King George V, King Edward VII, Prince Albert (Queen Victoria's husband) and then the whole Wettin line going back to around 950 AD is now known.

I am still working out the details in relation to the "new twist" I had mentioned on this blog elsewhere.

Regards,
Brad "the-kings-son.com"

Sennevini
14-07-12, 15:55
Nice job you did there! Seems the result is in correspondence with the Germanic origin of the line.

JFWR
14-07-12, 17:59
Hey Brad, if you end up getting a noble title out of this, I am calling in a favour from you regarding a knightly title for me. Also: For the rest of us. We're cool guys. You should hook us up.

bradmichaellittle
15-07-12, 01:05
Thanks guys.

I don't think I'll be getting any Royal favors myself for this King's Son work, and having decided to have it published.

Having the Y-DNA pattern established for the Coburg / Wettin line is perhaps just the beginning of a process of the all the various "royal lines" being benchmarked as to establish what the pattern must be, in order for a person to be proven as the rightful heir to the throne?

I mean - what would happen if some of current sitting royal kings & queens were found NOT to be descended from their royal ancestors? Why isn't mandatory Y-DNA checking being put in place?

Food for thought.

Cheers,
Brad

JFWR
15-07-12, 03:59
Thanks guys.

I don't think I'll be getting any Royal favors myself for this King's Son work, and having decided to have it published.

Having the Y-DNA pattern established for the Coburg / Wettin line is perhaps just the beginning of a process of the all the various "royal lines" being benchmarked as to establish what the pattern must be, in order for a person to be proven as the rightful heir to the throne?

I mean - what would happen if some of current sitting royal kings & queens were found NOT to be descended from their royal ancestors? Why isn't mandatory Y-DNA checking being put in place?

Food for thought.

Cheers,
Brad

I'm fairly certain that DNA testing is probably very common amongst noble families today, especially if there are known cases of adultery. I highly doubt that prince Harry would be in the succession, for instance, considering his whore mother Diana.

Also: Illegitimate sons do not inherit noble titles. Period. Being a bastard excludes you from consideration unless the king in question vouchsafes your legitimacy and then provides you with a title as per his whims.

In other words: Even if you are George V's bastard grandson, you've only the blood, not the title, especially if your grandmother was a commoner.

bradmichaellittle
15-07-12, 22:50
Sparkey - looking back through the blog, your prediction is correct re U106.

JFWR - I'd prefer a softer view re Princess Diana (& Prince Charles) .... things happened in their lives that didn't turn out which then lead to their splitup.

Re inheritance, agree being from a father born out of wedlock - wouldn't help ones case. However, you always need to consult the law as it applies to the particular country in question. I did such an analysis in Chapt 8.15 of the book .... your black & white statement is incorrect - and the law has left an opening for such a case & claim to be made.

Thanks,
Brad

JFWR
16-07-12, 03:25
Sparkey - looking back through the blog, your prediction is correct re U106.

JFWR - I'd prefer a softer view re Princess Diana (& Prince Charles) .... things happened in their lives that didn't turn out which then lead to their splitup.

Yeah, but Diana was a nut from the start. She was bulimic and manic depressive. Charles got the short end of that stick, especially when Diana had like six lovers over the course of their marriage.


Re inheritance, agree being from a father born out of wedlock - wouldn't help ones case. However, you always need to consult the law as it applies to the particular country in question. I did such an analysis in Chapt 8.15 of the book .... your black & white statement is incorrect - and the law has left an opening for such a case & claim to be made.



Did you check civilian inheritance laws? Or succession laws? Because those are unique concepts. Succession does not follow standard inheritance laws.

I know someone who is an intimate friend with a non-titled Bourbon. His situation is essentially this.

bradmichaellittle
16-07-12, 05:31
All academic re the topic of succession anyway ..... I'm not making any claim!

Regards,
Brad

JFWR
16-07-12, 09:40
All academic re the topic of succession anyway ..... I'm not making any claim!

Regards,
Brad

True, true. Still, it would have been cool.

This was a very interesting project, no doubt.

sparkey
16-07-12, 17:37
Sparkey - looking back through the blog, your prediction is correct re U106.

Hooray! I win! :laughing:

Thanks for getting the full results like this. Do you have a full list of monarchs who carried this particular Y line, so that we can add a complete list to the Haplogroups of European kings and queens (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?25236-Haplogroups-of-European-kings-and-queens) thread?

Sennevini
16-07-12, 19:44
That would be a lot of rulers, kings of United Kindom (from Albert to George VI), kings of Belgium (Albert II), kings of Bulgaria (Simeon II), along with German dukes (kings?) of all kinds of Saxony, and more, see http://genealogy.euweb.cz/wettin/index.html

bradmichaellittle
19-07-12, 05:38
I have now added a new webpage to my website that lists and links all the ~600 King's and Prince's who share the "Royal Haplogroup".

I'm unable to post weblinks, so please go to my website, and click on the "Royal Haplogroup" page tab.

Sparkey - if you wish, please paste my weblink in to "Haplogroups for Kings and Queens" blog page.

Thanks,
Brad (the-kings-son.com)

bradmichaellittle
27-12-12, 05:20
THE KING’S SON - UPDATE: DEC 26th 2012BRF COUSIN FILE MATCHINGPeriodically, over the last year, I have been contacted by a number of people who have a strong family "rumor" that they have an ancestor in their family tree that was fathered by an ancestor of the current British Royal Family (BRF).
I have been collecting Family Finder "Excel cousin files" from these individuals and have been performing a data compare, so as to assist with determining the validity of their rumor. I am getting some very interesting results - which I intend to share on this website in the next few months, after I complete my data analysis.
I will not be revealing the identities of the participants of my study - just the overall results. It has been important to these individuals for their identity to be kept secret, and I intend to maintain their confidence.
Please stay tuned & Happy New Year,
Brad (the-kings-son.com)

Maciamo
27-12-12, 16:30
I am looking forward to compare these results. There has been another presumed descendant of the Wettin dynasty on the forum who turned out to belonged to I2a-Din, as opposed to your R1b-L21. So far it's impossible to tell if either lineage is truly royal. If we get a few more identical results then you'd probably have a case.

nordicwarrior
27-12-12, 18:41
Stuff like this is fascinating to me...

bradmichaellittle
28-12-12, 05:39
Maciamo,

It is possible to tell that my data and information is the Royal Haplogroup for the Wettin line i.e. U106 (Z305+). It is based in triangulated Y-DNA testing (via FTDNA) of two known and documented Wettin line descended men. All the details, testing etc etc are published in my 200 page book and displayed on my website the-kings-son.com under the "Royal Haplogroup" tab. Additionally, the data and information has been vetted by a few FTDNA Project Administrators over the last year.

This is more data and basis for fact, than most of the other sources that you have used to compile your list of Haplogroup info for Royalty. Would additional proof are you expecting?

Re this other chap (Conte de Haito) I haven't seen any data or proof put out there that connects his assertions back to the Wettin line. The person who he states he is linked back to doesn't have any documented ancestors ..... to prove his case he needs to obtain a comparison with two "other" known and living Wettin men - then we would have a real debate on our hands re how his Haplogroup info is different to mine.


Conte de Haito,
The challenge is launched - will you reply?

Cheers,
Brad (the-kings-son.com)

Maciamo
28-12-12, 10:48
Thanks Brad. That's interesting indeed. If your uncle and two other proven descendants of the Wettin lineage share the same subclade of R1b-U106 (namely Z305*) and the same STR haplotype, then there is little doubt.

Could you perhaps tell us how many generations separate your uncle from the two Wettin men ? I am curious about how far in the ascending lineages the triangulation works for certain. Non-paternity events could have happened any time in over 1000 years, even in royal families.

bradmichaellittle
30-12-12, 02:36
Maciamo,
The two living Wettin men (from different lines) triangulate back to Prince Franz Herzog von Sachsen-Coburg-Saalfeld b. 1750 d. 1806.
All the details on the Y-DNA STR, how I got a hold then them to do the test, etc etc is detailed in The King's Son (The Evidence).
Will you consider referencing my discovery re the Wettin Haplogroup on your list of European Kings & Queens?

Also - I am now investigating options re the Hanover King's Haplogroup (as they are ancestors of the British Royal Family) ..... given you use a King George III avatar - is there anything you can share re possible DNA details .... based on your experience?
Cheers,
Brad (the-kings-son.com)

Maciamo
30-12-12, 12:12
Brad,

I already added the House of Wettin to the famous R1b individuals (http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_R1b_Y-DNA.shtml#famous_people), mentioning your research.

I have just added now the Kings of this lineage the list of Royal DNA (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/25236-Haplogroups-of-European-kings-and-queens).

Mikewww
02-01-13, 06:03
Maciamo,

1. Do you agree that IF my Uncle Eric (FTDNA Kit No 207060) and "Wettin Man" are both Haplogroup L21+ AND GD <=7 @ 67 markers ..... then they are closely related?

2. I know you think L21+ is only a 1% chance ..... so what is your prediction for the Haplogroup of "Wettin man"?

Thanks,
Brad (The-Kings-Son.om)

I may have totally misunderstood this, but I thought you were posting on the U106/S21 Yahoo Group message board that U106 was the haplogroup of Kings.... at least, that is their interpretation over there.

What's what?

Melusine
13-01-13, 03:35
Re: this question , that is now answered that King George V is not Michael's Grandfather, however, interesting enough as I read Maciamos list of Y-DNA of Kings of England, it appears that you may be a direct male line (illegtimate) of King James ii (1633-1701) or a paternal cousin line, because his haplogroup is the same as yours, R1b L21+. As history records when Queen Victoria married Prince Albert, the King James y-dna in direct royal line was "daughtered out) and a new y-dna was introduced as R1b U106 (Z305). Thus, of course you now know that King George is not your ancestor (no y-dna match).Then, when Queen Elizabeth married Prince Phillip (she also "daughtered out" the direct line of succession, ) another New y-dna was introduced to Prince, Charles, Prince William and Prince Harry .Since Prince William and "Kate", are with child presently, IF the child born to them is a female, if and when she marries, she too will "daughter out" Prince Phillips y-dna, unless of course this child next in line, Princess marries a direct male (y-dna) cousin line of Prince Phillip's or his direct male ancestors. It appears to me that your descent from a King or at least a male paternal relative (may be even prior to KG James) of King James II is quite probable (legitimate or otherwise). So, your circumstancial information may have "some truth in fact (y-dna, does not lie, we humans are quite well known to do so at times. )

bradmichaellittle
23-01-13, 07:54
Melusine - thanks for the note. No, based on the Family Finder (FF) cousin results of my known direct family i.e. brother, 1st cousin & uncle - we are getting between 1/8 to 1/4 of their FF cousins with ancestors from predominately Germany, some Austrian, Hungarian, Slovakian & Norwegian ...... which fits the hypothesis regarding a more recent connection to Germanic royalty. However, so far have not been able to 100% firm up the actual candidate - HOWEVER there are a few options being investigated. Until we have a confirmed analysis, then we'll keep further theories out of the limelight. Stay tuned to my "the kings son" facebook account if you are interested in more granular development updates. Thanks, Brad (the-kings-son.com)