PDA

View Full Version : Dalmatian Serbian DNA result by DR Mcdonald



Mihajlo
05-03-12, 09:53
I sent to him my mother's autosomal DNA data from 23andme. I wondered what a chromosome painting can look like with a person from Dalmatia.


http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/1026/mira1.png

Most likely fit is 85.6% (+- 11.2%) Europe (various subcontinents)
and 14.4% (+- 11.2%) Mideast (various subcontinents)

The following are possible population sets and their fractions,
most likely at the top
Hungary= 0.882 Armenian= 0.118 or
Hungary= 0.872 Georgian= 0.128 or
Hungary= 0.856 Jewish= 0.144 or
Hungary= 0.903 Druze= 0.097 or
Hungary= 0.913 Palestin= 0.087 or
Hungary= 0.880 Cypriot= 0.120 or
Lithuani= 0.527 Jewish= 0.473 or
Hungary= 0.876 Turkish= 0.124 or
Hungary= 0.944 Bedouin = 0.056 or
Hungary= 0.903 Iranian= 0.097

Here his commentary and an another because I asked if the east_asian segment was real or false.

As to the Asian on chromosomes 1 ... it is fairly weak and also
small. Its too small to tell much about. But as weak as it is,
I would say that it is not significant. The Mideast blocks also
seen are very weak and are expected in anyone from that area.

I’m not saying its not “true” in the sense that some small stretches got there from East Asia.
They probably did. I’m saying that it is not RECENT, that you are unlikely to find the cause.
They are just lying around from ancient migrations.There are very well known historical reasons why they got to that part of the world.

The computer program didn’t say “Hun”garian for nothing (of course,the country is in the right place too.)

Here where my mother plot on a gene/geography map. The green dot shows the average place.
http://img828.imageshack.us/img828/9773/mira2g.png


Even at low level, the asian influence brought with the Huns or Avars can be still seen nowadays in people from west balkan, this is quite amazing !

razor
05-03-12, 15:06
I sent to him my mother's autosomal DNA data from 23andme. I wondered what a chromosome painting can look like with a person from Dalmatia.


http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/1026/mira1.png

Most likely fit is 85.6% (+- 11.2%) Europe (various subcontinents)
and 14.4% (+- 11.2%) Mideast (various subcontinents)

The following are possible population sets and their fractions,
most likely at the top
Hungary= 0.882 Armenian= 0.118 or
Hungary= 0.872 Georgian= 0.128 or
Hungary= 0.856 Jewish= 0.144 or
Hungary= 0.903 Druze= 0.097 or
Hungary= 0.913 Palestin= 0.087 or
Hungary= 0.880 Cypriot= 0.120 or
Lithuani= 0.527 Jewish= 0.473 or
Hungary= 0.876 Turkish= 0.124 or
Hungary= 0.944 Bedouin = 0.056 or
Hungary= 0.903 Iranian= 0.097

Here his commentary and an another because I asked if the east_asian segment was real or false.

As to the Asian on chromosomes 1 ... it is fairly weak and also
small. Its too small to tell much about. But as weak as it is,
I would say that it is not significant. The Mideast blocks also
seen are very weak and are expected in anyone from that area.

I’m not saying its not “true” in the sense that some small stretches got there from East Asia.
They probably did. I’m saying that it is not RECENT, that you are unlikely to find the cause.
They are just lying around from ancient migrations.There are very well known historical reasons why they got to that part of the world.

The computer program didn’t say “Hun”garian for nothing (of course,the country is in the right place too.)

Here where my mother plot on a gene/geography map. The green dot shows the average place.
http://img828.imageshack.us/img828/9773/mira2g.png


Even at low level, the asian influence brought with the Huns or Avars can be still seen nowadays in people from west balkan, this is quite amazing !








Does McDonald have a view about the South Asian stretch on the X-chromosome? I do but I wouldn't want to preempt him

Mihajlo
05-03-12, 15:13
Does McDonald have a view about the South Asian stretch on the X-chromosome? I do but I wouldn't want to preempt him

No, he didn't say anything about it. What do you think ?

razor
05-03-12, 16:50
My mother in law (and my wife) both have such a stretch (in the centromere) of exacly the same length. McDonald said it was "real". It's relatively old (since they have no significant "South Asian" on their autosomal chromos). My mother in law's maternal line is from Ukraine's Transcarpathian region. I think it represents some older contact with a Roma (Gypsy) or a Roma-connecting population (Hungarian, Romanian, or other). Not unusual for the area south of the Carpathians. Perhaps your mother's indicates the same. Given the "stickiness" of the stretches, we're probably talking in terms of hundreds of years ago, maybe more.

Mihajlo
05-03-12, 20:29
My mother in law (and my wife) both have such a stretch (in the centromere) of exacly the same length. McDonald said it was "real". It's relatively old (since they have no significant "South Asian" on their autosomal chromos). My mother in law's maternal line is from Ukraine's Transcarpathian region. I think it represents some older contact with a Roma (Gypsy) or a Roma-connecting population (Hungarian, Romanian, or other). Not unusual for the area south of the Carpathians. Perhaps your mother's indicates the same. Given the "stickiness" of the stretches, we're probably talking in terms of hundreds of years ago, maybe more.

Interesting, thank you for your comment.

In ancestry finder she has some Romanians and Ukrainians. In my own chromosome painting on the X , the south asia has vanished, I just have the mideast segment.

An another theory : we see that she is overwhelmingly european with all that red , then, in second position, we have the mideast, then the south asia segment and the shortest one, the east_asia. It's like eastward - westard migration as the people ( the Avars and the Huns ?) migrate and mix with the population they encounter on their road or they took with them , as a confederation , and so on until they reach Europe. At the arrival, I bet it's already heavily mixed with mainly european DNA.

razor
05-03-12, 20:52
I would suggest you upload your results to www.gedmatch.com and see how they interpret your mideast and east asian. Dr. McDonald's "mideast" is pretty wide, and includes gedmatch's West Asian (=Caucasus +) and South West Asian (=Arabs+). Gedmatch also distinguishes between Northeast Asian and Southeast Asian.
As to the other theory: don't forget that other Asians also rolled into the Carpathian basin after the Huns and Avars. It's pretty tricky to disentangle.

Mihajlo
05-03-12, 21:43
Gedmatch, it's done. On admixture chromosome painting, at the exact same location as the test from Mcdonald, it's something like 3/4 of southeast asian and 1/4 northeast asian.

Very consistent with the bychr mode with the original k=12 dv3 test by dieneke : 1.33% northeast asian and 3.32 % southeast asian on chromosome 1.

Then by genomewide, she shows average 17.13 % west_asian and 3.07% southwest which is fall commonly in the balkan cluster.

And yes, I agree, the balkan history is hard to resolve.

Mihajlo
15-04-13, 14:06
Update of her results with AC.



http://img542.imageshack.us/img542/1221/sanstitre2kz.png


I have to mention that the asians bits come from my grandpa and, considering their length, are unlikely compatible with turkic tribes ( Huns and Avars) arrived during middle ages.

It is rather within the past 400 years because of an unknown event in my family during the ottoman period.

Gea
21-06-13, 21:39
Vlach in other words PaleoBalkan ancestry is predominant in Serbs western of river Drina.

LeBrok
21-06-13, 22:11
Vlach in other words PaleoBalkan ancestry is predominant in Serbs western of river Drina.
Here is an interesting debate about Vlachs.
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/26718-Vlach-haplogroups-amp-deep-ancestry?highlight=vlach
Welcome to Eupedia Gea

Gea
21-06-13, 22:16
Here is an interesting debate about Vlachs.
...
Welcome to Eupedia Gea

Yes,partially it is Lingustics fault that Vlachs are hard to understand.Folks on the Balkans is complicated and usage of terms is pretty loose so it makes mix-ups.

Thank you for the welcome.

Bachus
06-11-17, 06:00
Vlach in other words PaleoBalkan ancestry is predominant in Serbs western of river Drina.

Wrong, Serbs from Bosnia and Croatia have more R1a and less E-V13 than Serbs from Serbia and Montenegrins.

At autosomal DNA Serbs from Bosnia and Croatia have more northern andixture than Serbs from Serbia and Montenegrins.

hrvat22
06-11-17, 16:11
Wrong, Serbs from Bosnia and Croatia have more R1a and less E-V13 than Serbs from Serbia and Montenegrins.

At autosomal DNA Serbs from Bosnia and Croatia have more northern andixture than Serbs from Serbia and Montenegrins.

Very interesting because Serbs in Croatia allegedly coming from Serbia and Montenegro(that area), it is very likely that Croatian Serbs are part of Croatian origin and genetics shows this.
For now, it is only my opinion because genetics still need confirmed this.
Only thing is sure is that Serbs migration from east Balkans to Croatia is not true, at least for part of Serbs in Croatia.

Bachus
06-11-17, 16:26
Very interesting because Serbs in Croatia allegedly coming from Serbia and Montenegro(that area), it is very likely that Croatian Serbs are part of Croatian origin and genetics shows this.
For now, it is only my opinion because genetics still need confirmed this.
Only thing is sure is that Serbs migration from east Balkans to Croatia is not true, at least for part of Serbs in Croatia.

Percentage of R1a among Serbs in regions of Serbia and Republic of Srpska.


https://sconent-frx5-1.x.xfbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/23167995_503576813353823_9024406015234303920_n.jpg ?oh=665dbb397c1832fab410071359086b74&oe=5A6FAC54https://scontent-frx5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v1.0-9/23167995_503576813353823_9024406015234303920_n.jpg ?oh=665dbb397c1832fab410071359086b74&oe=5A6FAC54https://scontent-frx5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/23167995_503576813353823_9024406015234303920_n.jpg ?oh=665dbb397c1832fab410071359086b74&oe=5A6FAC54

hrvat22
06-11-17, 16:57
Percentage of R1a among Serbs in regions of Serbia and Republic of Srpska.


https://sconent-frx5-1.x.xfbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/23167995_503576813353823_9024406015234303920_n.jpg ?oh=665dbb397c1832fab410071359086b74&oe=5A6FAC54https://scontent-frx5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v1.0-9/23167995_503576813353823_9024406015234303920_n.jpg ?oh=665dbb397c1832fab410071359086b74&oe=5A6FAC54https://scontent-frx5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/23167995_503576813353823_9024406015234303920_n.jpg ?oh=665dbb397c1832fab410071359086b74&oe=5A6FAC54

Only thing that is relevant is only scientific work for Bosnian Serb, year 2005. And 13,6% R1a.


http://s155239215.onlinehome.us/turkic/22Kangars/BesenyoGeneticsEn.htm

Bachus
06-11-17, 17:07
Only thing that is relevant is only scientific work for Bosnian Serb, year 2005. And 13,6% R1a.


http://s155239215.onlinehome.us/turkic/22Kangars/BesenyoGeneticsEn.htm

Wrong, that "scientific work" is not relevant at all because sample was only from few villages east of Banja Luka and also sample was small.

In every research Serbs from Bosnia have higher percentage of R1a than Serbs from Serbia except that from few villages near Banja Luka which is not represent.

If you don't believe to me look here
dnk.poreklo.rs/tabela-pojedinacne-grupe/?grp-filter=R1a

Serbs from Bosanska Krajina and Podrinje have high percentage of R1a.