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mihaitzateo
28-02-12, 16:59
I was thinking that was a gothic influence in albanian language,remained from the time goths passed by here.
I saw there are few loan words from gothic in albanian.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albanian_language#Gothic_loans

As my opinion,no one knows what language dacians were speaking,and I still think they were speaking some kind of germanic.
As for today romanian and albanian,maybe some of those words from the document Diurpaneus posted are taken in both languages from turkish,other sure,are common from other sources.
I saw that in most european languages,both romance and german languages you tell polenta but in romanian that is called mămăligă and is same called in albanian and pronounced (the letters are pronounced same),written mëmëligë.
This is clear not taken from turkish,since it existed in romanian language before the turks appeared in Europe.

See there that the color cyclamen is said to be an old greek loan,I will continue with my opinions,is not a greek loan,since is present exactly same in romanian,albanian and icelandic,is from thracian (which was some kind of germanic language).
romanian - ciclamen
albanian - cyclamen
icelandic - cyclamen

In all three languages is pronounced and spelled same.

zanipolo
28-02-12, 20:30
I was thinking that was a gothic influence in albanian language,remained from the time goths passed by here.
I saw there are few loan words from gothic in albanian.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albanian_language#Gothic_loans

As my opinion,no one knows what language dacians were speaking,and I still think they were speaking some kind of germanic.
As for today romanian and albanian,maybe some of those words from the document Diurpaneus posted are taken in both languages from turkish,other sure,are common from other sources.
I saw that in most european languages,both romance and german languages you tell polenta but in romanian that is called mămăligă and is same called in albanian and pronounced (the letters are pronounced same),written mëmëligë.
This is clear not taken from turkish,since it existed in romanian language before the turks appeared in Europe.

See there that the color cyclamen is said to be an old greek loan,I will continue with my opinions,is not a greek loan,since is present exactly same in romanian,albanian and icelandic,is from thracian (which was some kind of germanic language).
romanian - ciclamen
albanian - cyclamen
icelandic - cyclamen

In all three languages is pronounced and spelled same.

whats the romanian word for penguin?

whatever you come up with , its a borrowed word ........... lets end this fictional word association linking words with other peoples cultures

Endri
28-02-12, 21:29
I was thinking that was a gothic influence in albanian language,remained from the time goths passed by here.
I saw there are few loan words from gothic in albanian.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albanian_language#Gothic_loans

As my opinion,no one knows what language dacians were speaking,and I still think they were speaking some kind of germanic.
As for today romanian and albanian,maybe some of those words from the document Diurpaneus posted are taken in both languages from turkish,other sure,are common from other sources.
I saw that in most european languages,both romance and german languages you tell polenta but in romanian that is called mămăligă and is same called in albanian and pronounced (the letters are pronounced same),written mëmëligë.
This is clear not taken from turkish,since it existed in romanian language before the turks appeared in Europe.

1) This is not a thread to talk about Dacian language cause one exists already and if Dacian is related to Thracian then i'm 99.9% Dacian is not a Germanic language
2) Mëmëligë? I'm Albanian and i know and heard lots of words in my life but this one i've never heard it mention. What is it? Enlighten me...



See there that the color cyclamen is said to be an old greek loan,I will continue with my opinions,is not a greek loan,since is present exactly same in romanian,albanian and icelandic,is from thracian (which was some kind of germanic language).
romanian - ciclamen
albanian - cyclamen
icelandic - cyclamen

In all three languages is pronounced and spelled same.

1) In Albanian it is written "çiklaminë". The /c/ you've written, if read in Albanian would be the Romanian /ts/, so it would like tsytslamen. Already here you argument of exactly the same is busted.
2) English-cyclamen
Italian-ciclamino
German-zyklamen
Hungarian-ciklàmen
Latvian-ciklamena
Lithuanian-ciklamenams
Polish-cyklamen
Portuguese-ciclame
Swedish-cyklamen
Welsh-cyclamen
Finnish-sysklaami
...and the same is for all the remaining IE languages including Slavic ones. So idk either you are blind to not see that this word is exactely the same in all IE languages or you are lousy at doing research.

Diurpaneus
29-02-12, 16:06
Regarding that list,of course there are many words borrowed from latin also from turkish.
But some of them could be of Paleo-Balkanic origin.

For example: Romanian zana-fairy
Albanian zane-fairy(from the forest)

8mike
29-02-12, 17:44
Regarding that list,of course there are many words borrowed from latin also from turkish.
But some of them could be of Paleo-Balkanic origin.

For example: Romanian zana-fairy
Albanian zane-fairy(from the forest)

here is a curious fact, in the old language spoken in Sardinia, the word for "fairy" was "jana"

mihaitzateo
29-02-12, 18:21
Diurpaneus the word is more exactly,in romanian zână and in albanian zanë,which is pronounced almost same.

ă from Romanian is pronounced same as ë from albanian language,the sound the english people are calling schwa (as u pronounce indefinite article,for example a cat).
Add to that what 8mike told,about the old language spoken in Sardigna,where you say jana and is clear from same source,older than latin and greek,no ideea where it is.

8mike
01-03-12, 20:35
Add to that what 8mike told,about the old language spoken in Sardigna,where you say jana and is clear from same source,older than latin and greek,no ideea where it is.

Robert Elsie says that the albanian "zane" can be related to Latin "Diana". This is most interesting, we have a connection between pre-iE, Latin, Albanian, Romanian(maybe Daco Tracian ?).

Diurpaneus
02-03-12, 11:28
"zână, zînă ‘a fairy (queen)’. As once written (Paliga 1989 a), cannot be
explained from Latin Diana: neither the phonetic changes, nor the general
situation of the ancient Latin god-names do not allow such a hypothesis.
The word must be of Thracian origin, from the same root like Slavic žena,
and its meaning was, for sure, ‘woman’, hence – by euphemistic and taboo
approach – ‘female deity = fairy’."

Duridanov connects zana/zane with Thracian names Zanus,Zania,Illyrian Zanatis,Albanian Zana.
From PIE *gen- to give birth

http://www.unibuc.ro/uploads_en/29535/30/ThrSacNames.pdf

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:List_of_Proto-Indo-European_roots

Diurpaneus
02-03-12, 11:35
"zână, zînă ‘a fairy (queen)’. As once written (Paliga 1989 a), cannot be
explained from Latin Diana: neither the phonetic changes, nor the general
situation of the ancient Latin god-names do not allow such a hypothesis.
The word must be of Thracian origin, from the same root like Slavic žena,
and its meaning was, for sure, ‘woman’, hence – by euphemistic and taboo
approach – ‘female deity = fairy’."

http://www.unibuc.ro/uploads_en/29535/30/ThrSacNames.pdf

mihaitzateo
02-03-12, 19:53
Robert Elsie says that the albanian "zane" can be related to Latin "Diana". This is most interesting, we have a connection between pre-iE, Latin, Albanian, Romanian(maybe Daco Tracian ?).


Well in old romanian,instead of zi for day,you were telling dzi.Ok but that is dz turned to z however,from Diana it should be d turned to dz first,which I doubt.

8mike
03-03-12, 14:17
what about the connection with Sardinian "jana"? it has also a masculine form which means "little man" or "dwarf".

Also, is it possible that "zana" could be a compund word? "z" (maybe it can be some sort of feminine prefix) + "ana" (which can relate to "jana" and νᾶνος)

mrikë
03-03-12, 21:15
what about the connection with Sardinian "jana"? it has also a masculine form which means "little man" or "dwarf".

Also, is it possible that "zana" could be a compund word? "z" (maybe it can be some sort of feminine prefix) + "ana" (which can relate to "jana" and νᾶνος)

If that were the case, then Zanas would not be known in folklore as beautiful, tall, wondrous creatures.

8mike
04-03-12, 12:12
If that were the case, then Zanas would not be known in folklore as beautiful,tall,wondrous creatures.
well mythical creatures can change their features over time :) but i don't really know, i am just supposing

MOESAN
04-03-12, 20:54
Well in old romanian,instead of zi for day,you were telling dzi.Ok but that is dz turned to z however,from Diana it should be d turned to dz first,which I doubt.

I am not a specialiste for East european languages but the évolution is POSSIBLE (not proved for romanian or albanian)
in some palatizing laguages:
DI- >>/dy/>>/dzh/ = /dj/>> /dz/
french north poitevin & québécois TI>>TS - DI>>DZ
french north auvergnat CABRA (chèvre) : >> /tchabra/>> /tsabra/ <> bourbonnais (North of Auvergne) CAPELL- >> (chapeau) >>/*tchapèo/ >> /tsapyo/ >> /sapyo/
it is

Taranis
06-03-12, 15:25
I'd like to ask though: why should there be any connection between Albanian and Sardinian? The pre-Roman inhabitants of Sardinia very probably spoke a non-Indo-European language or languages (some vocabulary of which was preserved in Sardinian dialect), and were most probably a leftover of Europe's Neolithic population. Besides, even from the genetic perspective you can make a very strong argument that they were completely unrelated, as the ancient Sardinians were most probably G2a and I2a1a (aka I2-M26). If there is any connection between Sardinia and mainland Europe, I would seek it with the Basques and the ancient Iberians (I2-M26 has the highest concentrations in Catalonia and the Basque Country).

8mike
06-03-12, 21:45
I'd like to ask though: why should there be any connection between Albanian and Sardinian? The pre-Roman inhabitants of Sardinia very probably spoke a non-Indo-European language or languages (some vocabulary of which was preserved in Sardinian dialect), and were most probably a leftover of Europe's Neolithic population. Besides, even from the genetic perspective you can make a very strong argument that they were completely unrelated, as the ancient Sardinians were most probably G2a and I2a1a (aka I2-M26). If there is any connection between Sardinia and mainland Europe, I would seek it with the Basques and the ancient Iberians (I2-M26 has the highest concentrations in Catalonia and the Basque Country).

if i remember right there are a few words in common between albanian and basque language. maybe the pre albanian language was not IE. also
sardinian:eni = alban enjë

sardinian:alase spear grass = alban halë thorn

sardinian: lothiu mud (topp: Lotzorai, Lothorgo, Loceri, Lotzeri) = alban lloç ‘mud

sardinian: dròb(b)alu pig intestine = alban drobolì intestine

sardinian: urtzula ‘clematis’, top. Urtzulei = albanese hurdh ivy


also

basque: txerri pig = albanian derri pig
basque: ardoa wine = albanian ardhi grapevine
basque: buztan tail = albanian bisht tail (but i think this is IE)

also even in serbo-croatian you can find similarities with basqu:
particularly gora (mountain) and gore (up). Gorain Basque is up, upwards, being a clear ethimologically Basque word (goi+ra: to the high) The other connection was reka (river) and erreka (creek, small river) but this can well be an IE import into Basque.

So this is why it wasn't so strange to me that Sardinian and Albanian could have a connection in some ways.

mihaitzateo
06-03-12, 22:39
So dròb(b)alu pig intestine = alban drobolì intestine
In sebo-croatian drob means intestines,according to wikitionary:
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/drob
And it seems correct since google translate also know to translate this word from croatian:
http://translate.google.com/#hr|en|%D0%B4%D1%80%D0%BE%CC%91%D0%B1
This word is told to be from proto-slavic language,on wiktionary.

Here could be another strange link to some romanian word,think a very old word,that is still in use today.

And in romanian,you also tell to the totality of lamb internal organs drob
http://www.dictionare-online.ro/drob.htm
http://dexonline.ro/definitie/drob/paradigma
Check the 2nd meaning of the word.
(you see is written there "2. S. n. Măruntaie de miel.")
Google translate would not know to translate the word Măruntaie but it means the totality of internal organs.
(according to wikipedia dictionary maruntaie from romanian it also means intestines:
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/m%C4%83runtaie so is possibile that drob from romanian means also lamb intestines - I do not know the exact meaning of the word).

Endri
06-03-12, 22:40
if i remember right there are a few words in common between albanian and basque language. maybe the pre albanian language was not IE. also
sardinian:eni = alban enjë

sardinian:alase spear grass = alban halë thorn

sardinian: lothiu mud (topp: Lotzorai, Lothorgo, Loceri, Lotzeri) = alban lloç ‘mud

sardinian: dròb(b)alu pig intestine = alban drobolì intestine

sardinian: urtzula ‘clematis’, top. Urtzulei = albanese hurdh ivy


also

basque: txerri pig = albanian derri pig
basque: ardoa wine = albanian ardhi grapevine
basque: buztan tail = albanian bisht tail (but i think this is IE)

8mike if I may ask you, how did you learn Albanian?

Also:

1) Llaç (and not lloç) does not mean mud but stucco/plaster, more exactly we call llaç the material which is used to connect the bricks/stones ect.
2) Droboli, may i ask you were did you find/heard this word or what dialect or region it is? The only similar word i know is "Drobitje" and it means "feeling tired/sick/not well".
3) Hurdh-Ivy? Again where did you find it? An similar word I can think is Hisëll which means poison ivy.

PS: Grapevine is "Hardhi" with the /h/

8mike
06-03-12, 22:56
8mike if I may ask you, how did you learn Albanian?

Also:

1) Llaç (and not lloç) does not mean mud but stucco/plaster, more exactly we call llaç the material which is used to connect the bricks/stones ect.
2) Droboli, may i ask you were did you find/heard this word or what dialect or region it is? The only similar word i know is "Drobitje" and it means "feeling tired/sick/not well".
3) Hurdh-Ivy? Again where did you find it? An similar word I can think is Hisëll which means poison ivy.

PS: Grapevine is "Hardhi" with the /h/

i learned albanian from my parents.
the words i posted are all from linguist Alberto Areddu. The word "mud" i used as "lloç" i use to pronounce it "lluc".

8mike
06-03-12, 22:59
So dròb(b)alu pig intestine = alban drobolì intestine
In sebo-croatian drob means intestines,according to wikitionary:
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/drob
And it seems correct since google translate also know to translate this word from croatian:
http://translate.google.com/#hr|en|дро̑б
This word is told to be from proto-slavic language,on wiktionary.

Here could be another strange link to some romanian word,think a very old word,that is still in use today.

And in romanian,you also tell to the totality of lamb internal organs drob
http://www.dictionare-online.ro/drob.htm
http://dexonline.ro/definitie/drob/paradigma
Check the 2nd meaning of the word.
(you see is written there "2. S. n. Măruntaie de miel.")
Google translate would not know to translate the word Măruntaie but it means the totality of internal organs.
(according to wikipedia dictionary maruntaie from romanian it also means intestines:
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/măruntaie so is possibile that drob from romanian means also lamb intestines - I do not know the exact meaning of the word).
even better :) Romania is further away but still has the connection with sardinian, it could proove in some way that illyrian-thracian culture and old non IE language have something in common.

Endri
06-03-12, 23:29
i learned albanian from my parents.
the words i posted are all from linguist Alberto Areddu. The word "mud" i used as "lloç" i use to pronounce it "lluc".

Well "lluc" and "lloç" are quite distant and not similar though "llucë" indeed means mud.

Also I have an idea, with what I've read from this author that he is some sort more a "charlatan" linguistic than a real one.

Taranis
06-03-12, 23:45
Also I have an idea, with what I've read from this author that he is some sort more a "charlatan" linguistic than a real one.

Absolutely. The guy in question wrote a bizarre book with the title "The Albanian Origins of Sardinian Civilization", and it's complete nonsense. I don't really have the time right now to address this issue in detail (because saying that some apparent cognates are in fact not what they seem, but explaining why and how the entire methodology is completely flawed takes a bit longer), but I'll get back to this in time.

I'll say a few more words regarding ancient Sardinia however (which really don't belong here since the topic, no matter how interesting, has absolutely nothing to do with Albania or the Albanian language): from the archaeological perspective, Sardinia was part of the Beaker-Bell Culture (late 3rd millennium BC) which during the Copper Age / early Bronze Age encompassed much of Western Europe (as well as parts of Scandinavia and North Africa), and which also included Sardinia.

During the Bronze Age, Sardinia was home to the so-called Nuraghic civilization/culture, which built it's distinct towers all over the island. There existed similar cultures on Corsica (Torrean culture) and the Balearic Isles (Talayotic culture), which were possibly related.

There is a possible connection between the name "Sardinia" and the "Sherden" or "Shardana", one of the ethnic names of the Sea Peoples as they were recorded in Egyptian sources in the 13th century BC.

From approximately the 8th century onward or so, Sardinia got under the influence of the Phoenicians, who established trade posts along the island's coasts, until the island was conquered by the Romans in the wake of the Punic Wars (3rd century BC).

In a nutshell, 2000 years of prehistory and no evidence of any connection with the Balkans.

Yetos
07-03-12, 01:28
8mike if I may ask you, how did you learn Albanian?

Also:

1) Llaç (and not lloç) does not mean mud but stucco/plaster, more exactly we call llaç the material which is used to connect the bricks/stones ect.
2) Droboli, may i ask you were did you find/heard this word or what dialect or region it is? The only similar word i know is "Drobitje" and it means "feeling tired/sick/not well".
3) Hurdh-Ivy? Again where did you find it? An similar word I can think is Hisëll which means poison ivy.

PS: Grapevine is "Hardhi" with the /h/


Indeed the word for mud in Greek is Ιλυς Ilus and the connected material is λασπη (ιλυσ+ποιω ->λασ-πη) laspi
I have read somewhere that Illyria = lands of rain so land of mud, but I don't think so, cause of double ll

julia90
07-03-12, 01:31
In favour of the linguistic connection pointed above i have to point that Sardinian Canto Tenore is similar to the Albanian one, in both cultures Sardinian and Albanian is related to shepards.
So there could be an effective ancient common origin between sardinians and albanians, (thought on genetic it's difficult to prove, because sardinians are also distant to italians, and more over the sardinian have a very south-western genetic, while albanians have a south eastern genetic)

Have a look on Sardinian and Albanian Singing
Sardinian

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWVCMvbGcPA

Yetos
07-03-12, 01:32
Absolutely. The guy in question wrote a bizarre book with the title "The Albanian Origins of Sardinian Civilization", and it's complete nonsense. I don't really have the time right now to address this issue in detail (because saying that some apparent cognates are in fact not what they seem, but explaining why and how the entire methodology is completely flawed takes a bit longer), but I'll get back to this in time.

I'll say a few more words regarding ancient Sardinia however (which really don't belong here since the topic, no matter how interesting, has absolutely nothing to do with Albania or the Albanian language): from the archaeological perspective, Sardinia was part of the Beaker-Bell Culture (late 3rd millennium BC) which during the Copper Age / early Bronze Age encompassed much of Western Europe (as well as parts of Scandinavia and North Africa), and which also included Sardinia.

During the Bronze Age, Sardinia was home to the so-called Nuraghic civilization/culture, which built it's distinct towers all over the island. There existed similar cultures on Corsica (Torrean culture) and the Balearic Isles (Talayotic culture), which were possibly related.

There is a possible connection between the name "Sardinia" and the "Sherden" or "Shardana", one of the ethnic names of the Sea Peoples as they were recorded in Egyptian sources in the 13th century BC.

From approximately the 8th century onward or so, Sardinia got under the influence of the Phoenicians, who established trade posts along the island's coasts, until the island was conquered by the Romans in the wake of the Punic Wars (3rd century BC).

In a nutshell, 2000 years of prehistory and no evidence of any connection with the Balkans.

Could the above mean that Sardinia is a Thyrrenian name?

julia90
07-03-12, 01:32
Albanian

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4V2cE-LmBU&amp;feature=relmfu

Are this kind of singing style diffused in other parts of Europe or even of the world? Are they connected all to shepards?

Taranis
07-03-12, 01:38
julia90, this really does not belong here.

julia90
07-03-12, 01:40
julia90, this really does not belong here.

I pointed out that It might explain the linguistic connections, tought i belive this style of singing could be present in other parts of europe

Taranis
07-03-12, 01:46
I pointed out that It might explain the linguistic connections, tought i belive this style of singing could be present in other parts of europe

Yes, and I've been trying to elaborate that there is no linguistic connection, and why, from the archaeological context, it would not be expected in the slightest, either.

I really do wonder though: what is it about the Albanians that people come up with such peculiar speculation about connecting them with all kinds of other people? To briefly mention the various offbeat 'theories' that I've seen on this forum: the Basques, Berbers, Etruscans, "Pelasgians" and now Sardinians. Why is it so hard to accept that the Albanians are who they are, and that in the course of history, they interacted with the people they interacted (ancient Greeks, Dacians, Romans, East Germanic peoples, Slavs, Turks?), and with nobody else? Why all this wild speculation?

julia90
07-03-12, 01:53
Yes, and I've been trying to elaborate that there is no linguistic connection, and why, from the archaeological context, it would not be expected in the slightest, either.

I really do wonder though: what is it about the Albanians that people come up with such peculiar speculation about connecting them with all kinds of other people? To briefly mention the various offbeat 'theories' that I've seen on this forum: the Basques, Berbers, Etruscans, "Pelasgians" and now Sardinians. Why is it so hard to accept that the Albanians are who they are, and that in the course of history, they interacted with the people they interacted (ancient Greeks, Dacians, Romans, East Germanic peoples, Slavs, Turks?), and with nobody else? Why all this wild speculation?


They surely are indigenous to the balkans, thought i find interesting the speculations on pelasgians: etruscans, and maybe a part of the ethnogenesis of sardinia (Shardana) surely have in common with southern balkans, because as said in past posts, pelasgians in coming from anatolia it's higly probable they have left traces in greece, albania, fyrom, bulgaria and so on.
This is why southeast europe, in particular southern parts of balkans, and southern italy as well as central italy have quite important west asian genes, thought sardinia, have less of them.
That's all about i'm interested on this topic and possible speculations on it.

Yetos
07-03-12, 02:01
Are this kind of singing style diffused in other parts of Europe or even of the world? Are they connected all to shepards?

Yes just find the Greek polyphony, the Famous Bulgarian womens polyphony, Serbia, Bosnia etc

Yetos
07-03-12, 02:23
what about sumerian :D ? the word "temen" means foundation and it is very similar to albanian "themel" which mean foundation.

themel or θεμελιος λιθος, I wonder does that word exist in Other IE languages,

θεμελιωσις foundation
θεμελιος λιθος the big stone, the first one, upon which we build a house,
θεμελιωδης basic one, the basis upon we build a theory etc
συθεμελος total act of a structure or an idea with the hidden parts,
I wonder if there is any in another Ie language? or comes from another word like Themis θεμις -θεμιτος, Θυμα,

hmmm
maybe from the word θεμα (theme) ???

virb θετω (Ι put)
noun θεμα θεμιτος θεσις
extracts θετος Θετταλος θεμελιος ενθετος Εκθεσις και εκθεμα etc

8mike
07-03-12, 10:28
themel or θεμελιος λιθος, I wonder does that word exist in Other IE languages,

θεμελιωσις foundation
θεμελιος λιθος the big stone, the first one, upon which we build a house,
θεμελιωδης basic one, the basis upon we build a theory etc
συθεμελος total act of a structure or an idea with the hidden parts,
I wonder if there is any in another Ie language? or comes from another word like Themis θεμις -θεμιτος, Θυμα,

hmmm
maybe from the word θεμα (theme) ???

virb θετω (Ι put)
noun θεμα θεμιτος θεσις
extracts θετος Θετταλος θεμελιος ενθετος Εκθεσις και εκθεμα etc

i thought it was possible to have connections between non european languages. i remember the word *táwros (bull) cognating with the semitic *θawr-. Maybe "temen" cognates with the word themel and θεμα. Maybe it can be a very old borrowing during some very old migration.

Yetos
07-03-12, 11:31
i thought it was possible to have connections between non european languages. i remember the word *táwros (bull) cognating with the semitic *θawr-. Maybe "temen" cognates with the word themel and θεμα. Maybe it can be a very old borrowing during some very old migration.

Indeed that is true, and I agree,
But I think sumerians were a bit Ie, although I might be wrong,

Indeed there are a lot of words of Semitic on Mediterenean languages,
But I believe that comes from the Akkadians, for me they split to Arcado-Cypriots and to Levantines,
Arcado-Cypriots moved west reaching Aegean and become Pelasgians and from there to Italy as Etruscans,
while Levantines moved south and Create Phoenicians

there many words which we consider as Semitic, which exists in South IE languages, even in Latin as the word aqua, Homer Hesiodus uses many non IE which we consider as Pelasgian or Semitic.

Even in modern Turkish we find such words.

Endri
07-03-12, 15:27
Maybe the Proto Semitic and Proto IE, before separating in two different languages were the same language, thus this similarities...

@julia90
Maybe this similar polifonic type of singing in Albania and Sardinia is a remnants from the Roman Empire.

Taranis
07-03-12, 15:45
Indeed that is true, and I agree,
But I think sumerians were a bit Ie, although I might be wrong,

Indeed there are a lot of words of Semitic on Mediterenean languages,
But I believe that comes from the Akkadians, for me they split to Arcado-Cypriots and to Levantines,
Arcado-Cypriots moved west reaching Aegean and become Pelasgians and from there to Italy as Etruscans,
while Levantines moved south and Create Phoenicians

there many words which we consider as Semitic, which exists in South IE languages, even in Latin as the word aqua, Homer Hesiodus uses many non IE which we consider as Pelasgian or Semitic.

Even in modern Turkish we find such words.


Sumerian was an isolate language, completely unrelated with Indo-European. Sumerian is the oldest attested language, and it was the first language that ceased to be spoken as a living language but continued as a literature language (similar to Latin). It was effectively a dead language from the early 2nd millennium BC onward, before any Indo-European language was even attested. It was never spoken outside of Mesopotamia.

So, I would like to ask you: what are the chances of any kind of borrowing from Sumerian into Albanian, or any other Indo-European language (other than for instance Hittite)?


Maybe the Proto Semitic and Proto IE, before separating in two different languages were the same language, thus this similarities...

Semitic and IE are not closely related. The Semitic languages are part of the greater Afroasiatic (aka Afrasian) language family, which includes the Berber languages, the Chadic langugaes, Egyptian and the Kushitic languages.

I agree that there is the possibility that this word is related, but it could also be a Semitic borrowing into PIE, a PIE borrowing into Semitic, or a common borrowing from a third source.

Yetos
07-03-12, 17:34
Sumerian was an isolate language, completely unrelated with Indo-European. Sumerian is the oldest attested language, and it was the first language that ceased to be spoken as a living language but continued as a literature language (similar to Latin). It was effectively a dead language from the early 2nd millennium BC onward, before any Indo-European language was even attested. It was never spoken outside of Mesopotamia.

So, I would like to ask you: what are the chances of any kind of borrowing from Sumerian into Albanian, or any other Indo-European language (other than for instance Hittite)?



Semitic and IE are not closely related. The Semitic languages are part of the greater Afroasiatic (aka Afrasian) language family, which includes the Berber languages, the Chadic langugaes, Egyptian and the Kushitic languages.

I agree that there is the possibility that this word is related, but it could also be a Semitic borrowing into PIE, a PIE borrowing into Semitic, or a common borrowing from a third source.

I do not know about the chance of a Sumerian word to have been in modern Albanian,
and believe little chances, But you may not exclude the bellow chances,
that Themel is from Older Illyrian and survived in modern Albanian
or an ancient Greek borrow, That is why I asked if exist in any other IE language,
if the word is not connected with any other IE then surely is Greek or older non IE

although there is a book by Jehunda (Yehunda) that compares Greek, Hebrew, Latin and older languages like Aramaic and by what i was able to see there are indeed many commons, the number the last time was >1600 thematic roots, meaning that the possibility is high, of an older Mediterenean- minor Asian language,

Just think how much we know about the language of the Hatti (Hath-rop, Hath-rus)

8mike
07-03-12, 22:05
the only thing i found is this http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%F0%92%8B%BC, but it doesn't tell anything about what words derived from it. just a curiosity, how do they know that that symbol is called "temen"?

Taranis
07-03-12, 22:24
I have moved a lot of clearly unrelated posts from the Albanian language thread into this one. The original thread is found here (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?27011-The-Albanian-language).

Diurpaneus
07-03-12, 23:32
if i remember right there are a few words in common between albanian and basque language. maybe the pre albanian language was not IE. also

sardinian:eni = alban enjë

sardinian:alase spear grass = alban halë thorn

sardinian: lothiu mud (topp: Lotzorai, Lothorgo, Loceri, Lotzeri) = alban lloç ‘mud

sardinian: dròb(b)alu pig intestine = alban drobolì intestine

sardinian: urtzula ‘clematis’, top. Urtzulei = albanese hurdh ivy


also

basque: txerri pig = albanian derri pig
basque: ardoa wine = albanian ardhi grapevine
basque: buztan tail = albanian bisht tail (but i think this is IE)

also even in serbo-croatian you can find similarities with basqu:
particularly gora (mountain) and gore (up). Gorain Basque is up, upwards, being a clear ethimologically Basque word (goi+ra: to the high) The other connection was reka (river) and erreka (creek, small river) but this can well be an IE import into Basque.

So this is why it wasn't so strange to me that Sardinian and Albanian could have a connection in some ways.



Latin lutum - clay, mud
Romanian lut - clay


Romanian drob - chicken or lamb intestines
Serbian,Croatian,Czech,Slovenian drob - intestines
Bulgarian drob - lung

kesi
08-03-12, 11:33
Albanian

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4V2cE-LmBU&amp;feature=relmfu

Are this kind of singing style diffused in other parts of Europe or even of the world? Are they connected all to shepards?

Julia90, polyphonic singing in Albania is not only related to shepherds. I think experts believe it originated from a sort of lament, especially the Lab polyphonic singing.

see this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shgUKMkt-60

often, singing is performed as a dance, like this one singing about a warrior:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqciYkW1Rgs

binx
22-03-12, 13:40
i learned albanian from my parents.
the words i posted are all from linguist Alberto Areddu. The word "mud" i used as "lloç" i use to pronounce it "lluc".


Albanian "lloç", "lluç", "lluçe" is a borrowing from Latin Lutum ("mud") >pronounce "lutsum".