PDA

View Full Version : tribal names continuity theory revisited



how yes no 3
09-04-12, 04:27
actually, I was probably wrong all along......

latest research shows:
1) that haplogroup I in Afghanistan is in fact I2b1 which is in Europe related to Germanic tribes...

http://www.plosone.org/article/info%...l.pone.0034288 (http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0034288)

2) this I2 is not found in Pashtuns who are considered to origin from Scythians and are R1a dominant people, but 2 in Hazara who dominantly origin from soldiers of Genghis Kan and 1 in Tajik sample...

both Tajik and Hazara stand out from the rest by high J2a - 5 times value of I2b
similarly we can see here J2 strong imprint in Serica (northwest China) stronger than impact of I
https://sites.google.com/site/thelineagesofasia/

for me this is indication that Serica, north of Tibet was J2+ I2b1, because Serica stretched into Tajikistan and it was likely subdued on start of Genghis Kan conquest....hence people from there were used as soldiers in Afganistan leaving Hazara as their offspring (apparently according to preserved tradition the word Hazara comes from number 1000 which was number of people in units that were left as settlements to rule the country)

so Serica was probably related to I2b1 which is in Europe related to Germanic people
=> same holds for modern Sart people who are descended from Serica people.....






regarding 2) it is rather low number of samples and it is not clear where 49 samples for Pasthuns come from (whether they include some Pashtun Sarbans but they probably do as Sarbans are largest tribal group of Pashtuns) but still based on that sample Pasthuns are 50% R1a and no haplogroup I, Sarbans are largest tribe of Pashtuns so probably roughly the same...


this suggest that I could be wrong all along with proposed links between tribes and haplogroups

Serica /Serians /Scirii? would be J2 + I2b related and the link I was making to Cimmerians/Gomer comes to its place for those tribes as Gomer is related to Germanic people which in Europe correlate with I2b...

also Strabo's note that both tribes of Cappadocians are white Syrians would probably be same as accounts that Cimmerians settled in Cappadocia...

Strabo also equates Syrians with Sumerians

looking at maps Syrians / Sumerians are easily dominant J2, same as Aryans of Indus valley

J2 is in Maciamo's maps clearly elevated in Cappadocia .... but since these are white Syrians this suggest I2b should be found as well in Kurds and Cappadocians...

knowing that Syrians = Sumerians, it is possible that white Syrians = white Sumerians are indeed as I suggested Gutians who ruled over Summer for over 100 years

also there is notion of both Sart and white Sart which could relate to I2b and J2 in Serica....



Sorbs/Sarbans/Sherdana?/Kurds?/Serbs? would be R1a related tribal names

Scordisci are unclear...

sparkey
09-04-12, 08:22
The little I2a2a (old I2b1) found in Asia so far, which has been SNP tested, has actually been of two different varieties: I2a2a-Cont3 and I2a2a-Roots. I don't think we can say which, for sure, has been found in Afghanistan. Undoubtedly, the I2a2a-Roots which has been tested so far has had a center of diversity in Central Europe, and spread mostly in Germanic areas (although, as always, I admit that this may change as more samples come in). But I2a2a-Cont3 has its apparent center of diversity in Eastern Europe, or at least on the Eastern edge of Central Europe. I've never really felt Cont3 to be particularly "Germanic." So I think there's still a lot left to be studied here.

Yetos
10-04-12, 09:22
The little I2a2a (old I2b1) found in Asia so far, which has been SNP tested, has actually been of two different varieties: I2a2a-Cont3 and I2a2a-Roots. I don't think we can say which, for sure, has been found in Afghanistan. Undoubtedly, the I2a2a-Roots which has been tested so far has had a center of diversity in Central Europe, and spread mostly in Germanic areas (although, as always, I admit that this may change as more samples come in). But I2a2a-Cont3 has its apparent center of diversity in Eastern Europe, or at least on the Eastern edge of Central Europe. I've never really felt Cont3 to be particularly "Germanic." So I think there's still a lot left to be studied here.

Sparkey, can you have dates I mean in thread about I2a2 Din we had an estimation of time. can we have an estimation of time about I2a2 Cont3 and I2a2 Roots?

I mean the time of 'mutation' of the above with I2a2 DIN?

sparkey
11-04-12, 08:15
Sparkey, can you have dates I mean in thread about I2a2 Din we had an estimation of time. can we have an estimation of time about I2a2 Cont3 and I2a2 Roots?

I mean the time of 'mutation' of the above with I2a2 DIN?

Approximate TMRCAs using the same methodology (Nordtvedt's):

Cont3 = ~5000 years old
Roots = ~4500 years old

Both are a good deal older than I2a-Din in terms of TMRCA of current samples.

Or maybe you're getting at clade ages? Roots branched with the I2a2a-Isles branches about 7000 years ago, and Cont3 branched with the rest of I2a2a-Cont about 7500 years ago.

If you're asking how closely related they are to I2a-Din... they're not close. They branched from I2a-Din nearly 20,000 years ago. See Nordtvedt (http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net/Tree and Map for Hg I.pdf).