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DejaVu
11-04-12, 21:07
ok explanation maybe will help

Arbanitan from 4 islands Ydra island

Ljiaese na perguljia major meaning is you get a bath a wash under the vineyard, or you take a sunbath under a vineyard,
I have seen both translations but more possible is first

Arbanitan of North AThens and Leyktra
do ta press kotsidet gliate nte tsi throuim nte i tate Do ta pres kotsidet lieto vente (vante filaki
I will cut your pigtails, but I afraid your father I will cut the pigtails, let me go (even if I go) to prison

Kleft Arbanites of Thessaly
bante tsupra te billete lioulie
go girl (lady - miss) to gather flowers

if you can't find I can help you find connection with other non Albanian words cause many are not only but even Thracian Greek Italian

When you talk about Greek language you mean modern greek, Koine (Mixed language or common in the ancient world), Attic, Aeolic, Doric, Ionic, "Linear B"?

Yetos
11-04-12, 21:31
When you talk about Greek language you mean modern greek, Koine (Mixed language or common in the ancient world), Attic, Aeolic, Doric, Ionic, "Linear B"?

Until Koine is clear pure Greek language
After Koine 2 or Hellenistic 1 starts Thracian words to enter,
Hellenistic 2 has a number of thracian elements, after Constantine starts a Greco-Roman (Latin) which exist in Byzantine,
Byzantine is a non Turkish language based on Greek maximum then Thracian then Latin except Aromani who stay in Latin,
Modern Greek is the Thracian idiom of Con/polis with Ottoman remnants,
means a Greek language with enough imported from Thracian and Latin,

Something else? the rest you describe are just 4 dialects of the written Greek until attic to become lingua franca
Makedonian dialect is the first who broke the lingua franca of Attic which was part of Ionian DIalect

Koine 1 is the connection of Attic with Makedonian using mostly the sounds of Attic while in Hellenistic 1 in many words Makedonian sounds prevail


PS why you ask?

DejaVu
11-04-12, 21:50
Until Koine is clear pure Greek language
After Koine 2 or Hellenistic 1 starts Thracian words to enter,
Hellenistic 2 has a number of thracian elements, after Constantine starts a Greco-Roman (Latin) which exist in Byzantine,
Byzantine is a non Turkish language based on Greek maximum then Thracian then Latin except Aromani who stay in Latin,
Modern Greek is the Thracian idiom of Con/polis with Ottoman remnants,
means a Greek language with enough imported from Thracian and Latin,

Something else? the rest you describe are just 4 dialects of the written Greek until attic to become lingua franca
Makedonian dialect is the first who broke the lingua franca of Attic which was part of Ionian DIalect

Koine 1 is the connection of Attic with Makedonian using mostly the sounds of Attic while in Hellenistic 1 in many words Makedonian sounds prevail


PS why you ask?

Koine = Koi ne = Who not (Macedonian slavic language) = Many understand because of similar words?
If you use Koine it contains borrowed words from many different civilization or people (40 or more) so it may not be greek root of that word.

Yetos
12-04-12, 01:29
Koine = Koi ne = Who not (Macedonian slavic language) = Many understand because of similar words?
If you use Koine it contains borrowed words from many different civilization or people (40 or more) so it may not be greek root of that word.

well only I know that if I read Attic or Dorian or Koine I understand it 99,5%
the new Testament is in Hellenistic 2 (koine 3)

even if don't go to basic school it is about 70%.

I got your point but you probably mention modern Greek, which have Greek as primary and basic then Thracian Latin Turkish, and in Makedonia some Slavic elements and the last is some Arabic, and in Saronikos Gulf some early Arbanitan ( I am not speaking to possible linguistic minorities but majority of modern Greek speaking)
Although ancient Greek has some non IE elements probably Pelasgian, but that is what makes a language,
the ability to assimilate word that does exist, from your own words (synthesis) or from a loan word and transform it to your ear sounds (loan word, εισαγωμενη-Ξενικη)
even koine 3 Hellenistic 2 is a 99% Greek language (until Pergamos and Alexandreia burn)
imports to Greek language major starts after the massacre of Greeks by Christians and Byzantine,
Besides koine means common and is a mix of Attic (Ionian) with Makedonian and much after Phrygian-Thracian (mostly due to Pergamos)

but I think we go off the thread

zanipolo
12-04-12, 13:12
- "zona" is a loanword from Greek, from ζωνη ("zōnē"). Latin doesn't have a native *z sound.

Old latin did not have Z , but it had X representing the z sound
Classical latin did have Z , but it was "zeta" in sound

Regional Italian languages ( vulgar Latin) had X as a zee sound , as in Pax meaning peace, par...ze

Zona is only "new" italian and it could be borrowed as the vulgar Latin languages did not have such a word. The closest word to zona I recall is Zonta , which means to add.

Taranis
12-04-12, 13:31
Old latin did not have Z , but it had X representing the z sound
Classical latin did have Z , but it was "zeta" in sound

Regional Italian languages ( vulgar Latin) had X as a zee sound , as in Pax meaning peace, par...ze

Zona is only "new" italian and it could be borrowed as the vulgar Latin languages did not have such a word. The closest word to zona I recall is Zonta , which means to add.

That's wrong, in Latin the letter "x" represented the phoneme /ks/. You are correct that the letter "z" was borrowed later from Greek and not originally present in the Latin alphabet (which explains it's position as the final letter of the alphabet, as opposed to the seventh). One problem, however is that we do not know the exact pronounciation of the letter Zeta in classical Greek (it's /z/ in modern Greek - but you have to consider that Greek Zeta corresponds with PIE *j as well as clusters *dj-, *gj-, *gwj-). In early Latin, the phoneme /z/ was usually represented either by "s" or "ss".

zanipolo
13-04-12, 08:42
That's wrong, in Latin the letter "x" represented the phoneme /ks/. You are correct that the letter "z" was borrowed later from Greek and not originally present in the Latin alphabet (which explains it's position as the final letter of the alphabet, as opposed to the seventh). One problem, however is that we do not know the exact pronounciation of the letter Zeta in classical Greek (it's /z/ in modern Greek - but you have to consider that Greek Zeta corresponds with PIE *j as well as clusters *dj-, *gj-, *gwj-). In early Latin, the phoneme /z/ was usually represented either by "s" or "ss".

Thats wrong , its not represented by S or SS, they have different meanings , a single S after a vowel letter is a zee sound as is PISA and SS is used after a vowel letter to ensure a S sound. A single S after a non-vowel letter is also a S sound.

As for Z, a double zz means that the first z get a "tee" sound , like PIZZA and a single Z is rarely seen in the middle of a word but it remains a Zet sound as in SPRITZ

The X , which was the old vulgar latin sound for zee was replaced around 1730 by an S , as per info above

Taranis
13-04-12, 09:59
Thats wrong , its not represented by S or SS, they have different meanings , a single S after a vowel letter is a zee sound as is PISA and SS is used after a vowel letter to ensure a S sound. A single S after a non-vowel letter is also a S sound.

As for Z, a double zz means that the first z get a "tee" sound , like PIZZA and a single Z is rarely seen in the middle of a word but it remains a Zet sound as in SPRITZ

The X , which was the old vulgar latin sound for zee was replaced around 1730 by an S , as per info above

No Zanipolo, don't confuse modern Italian orthography with classical Latin orthography. The two are not the same.

zanipolo
13-04-12, 22:49
No Zanipolo, don't confuse modern Italian orthography with classical Latin orthography. The two are not the same.

I am not confusing modern italian and modern italian does not have the amount of latin that the vulgar latin languages have. What I am saying is that vulgar latin languages commenced prior to the demise of the western roman empire and continued to the 20th century. the letters in question can be seen in texts from 1500 plus years ago. the system of the S, SS, X, Z was rarely changed. The change was the alphabet. Modern italian does not have the full latin alphabet, while the regional language do plus there own other ones

Yetos
19-04-12, 14:04
Yetos, I still haven't figured out what you're tryin' to prove or say but the sun cannot be covered with hay. It is as clear as it can get that Arvanitika is an Albanian dialect. Only cause these Arvanits are ashamed (or think to high of themselves) to be of Albanian origin does not mean they are not. The truth is the truth, ugly or beautiful it is what it is.


Arbanites ashamed?
Arbanites afraid?

Arbanites did not afraid Turks or Con/polis why to be ashamed or afraid?

do you believe that these men are afraid?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a8/Archbishop_Ieronimos_of_Greece2.jpg

today Archbishop of Greece
his family name Λιαπης (Lapithes)

http://images.inews.gr/61/nees-foties-apo-ton-pagkalo-gia-to-pasok-ton-papandreou-kai--ton-aki.jpg

Pagkalos Παγκαλος
many times vice president of Greek goverment.

and many others even PHD in languages,

Simply they know he truth,



BTW the words I gave are Lyrics about the vivid Arbanitan today in Greece (songs expreessions) by Μωραιτης Moraitis work

they are writen down as today are spoken, and not how should be in modern Albanian

FBS
19-04-12, 15:18
What are you so agitated about Yetos? Are you Arvanite yourself?

xyz
20-04-12, 12:30
Yetos you must be stoned

xyz
20-04-12, 12:32
How can you say that Avanites are not Albanians when you Greeks call them Albanians???

xyz
20-04-12, 12:35
They are immigrated from Albania, they speak Albanian language, they used to have Albanian traditions ( and maybe still do ) and you call them Greeks???

xyz
20-04-12, 12:36
One more post after this since I need 10 posts to add a link
Sorry for the multiple posts. :)

Taranis
20-04-12, 12:38
xyz, do not insult other board members.

xyz
20-04-12, 12:47
Stones is almost like saying, Happy
I was not insulting