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palamede
22-04-12, 10:36
Hello Eupedia.

My first post.
About the maps and frequencies en Ile De France and France center.


The results for Ile-De-France-Paris are based on 2 samples done in Paris, The first one at the 'Institut médico-légale', the forensic institute and the second one by Ramon-Luis et al. at the "Institut de transfusion sanguine" , Institute for blood transfusion. As often, a lot of studies in France, they are biased by the hostility of a part of french scientists to every study of population genetics in France. It is already illegal to measure the nowadays percentage in the french populations. Historical studies are not forbidden, but are done without care and are very contaminated by immigrated populations. For the second 21,5%, 11% of sub-saharians clade, certainly due to very many people from Antilla Sea and Indian Ocean with a french name in Paris and suburbs.About half of sampled E1b1b comes from Maghreb immigrates.
A large part of J1 comes from Jewish, Near East and Maghreb immigrates.
About half of J2 comes from South Italian, Turkish, Jewish and Armenian immigrates
About half of R1a1 comes from Polish and Russian immigrates.


The only certain results in France are from Balaresque and al. for West France, from Myres and al from South-East France, plus several spanish studies in Basque Country and Gascony.


You can compare with the map of autosomal studies published by Eupedia where it seems French samples were chosen more carefully.


Some centuries ago, before the recent huge immigration waves, Ile de France was certainly in continuity with neighbouring countries between 60 and 75% of R1b1b (instead of 45%, 56% for Ramos-Luis-blood institute, 30,8% for the forensic institute). In fact, map stains for Paris Basin in Eupedia are probably wrong for the previous centuries before 20th century and should be in continuity between the west and east of France. Auvergne and Nord-Pas-De-Calais shoud deserve a new study to confirm or deny the results on a unique study. Studies for North and Center France center are not fiable at all.

palamede
22-04-12, 10:45
Erratum:
A part of post was removed

"For the second 21,5%, 11% of sub-saharians clade" was

"For the second study Ramos-Luis-blood institute, for 22% total of E clades, ExE1b1b (E minus E1b1b) gives 11% of sub-saharians clades,"

Christiaan
26-04-12, 21:57
Erratum:
A part of post was removed

"For the second 21,5%, 11% of sub-saharians clade" was

"For the second study Ramos-Luis-blood institute, for 22% total of E clades, ExE1b1b (E minus E1b1b) gives 11% of sub-saharians clades,"


This has connection with this topic:
http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2012/04/bearers-of-french-surnames-in-flanders.html

Selwyn Greenfrith
27-04-12, 01:36
Hello Eupedia.

My first post.
About the maps and frequencies en Ile De France and France center.


The results for Ile-De-France-Paris are based on 2 samples done in Paris, The first one at the 'Institut médico-légale', the forensic institute and the second one by Ramon-Luis et al. at the "Institut de transfusion sanguine" , Institute for blood transfusion. As often, a lot of studies in France, they are biased by the hostility of a part of french scientists to every study of population genetics in France. It is already illegal to measure the nowadays percentage in the french populations. Historical studies are not forbidden, but are done without care and are very contaminated by immigrated populations. For the second 21,5%, 11% of sub-saharians clade, certainly due to very many people from Antilla Sea and Indian Ocean with a french name in Paris and suburbs.About half of sampled E1b1b comes from Maghreb immigrates.

Not to come over offhand, but if the above bolded bit is truthful, how indeed did the French authorities fulfill their IDing and ethnic cleansing of 20'000 Gypsies from France?

Selwyn Greenfrith
27-04-12, 01:47
This has connection with this topic:
http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2012/04/bearers-of-french-surnames-in-flanders.html

Good stuff that...

Though hope whomever worked on it isn't nabbed for treason by the French authorities...

"In this context, an interesting historical event is the demic migration from French-speaking regions in Northern France to the depopulated and Dutch-speaking region Flanders at the end of the sixteenth century"

Christiaan
02-05-12, 16:44
Some centuries ago, before the recent huge immigration waves, Ile de France was certainly in continuity with neighbouring countries between 60 and 75% of R1b1b (instead of 45%, 56% for Ramos-Luis-blood institute, 30,8% for the forensic institute). In fact, map stains for Paris Basin in Eupedia are probably wrong for the previous centuries before 20th century and should be in continuity between the west and east of France. Auvergne and Nord-Pas-De-Calais shoud deserve a new study to confirm or deny the results on a unique study. Studies for North and Center France center are not fiable at all.

You meant probably R1b1b2 and its major subclades.

Well, it seems about 50% for Ile de France and 55% for Nord-pas-de-Calais according to the flemish surname study. So the results of the Ramos-Luis blood institute are pretty close to those results.