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L.D.Brousse
03-07-12, 14:13
What ethnic groups have the least amount of Neanderthal genetic markers?

Knovas
03-07-12, 14:32
To my knowledge, this are basically deep Sub-Saharan populations, not sure about specific ethnic groups though. My guess are specially Mbuti Pygmies, Biaka Pygmies, and a few San from Namibia, who are the best preserved African populations in genetic terms.

julia90
04-07-12, 19:43
yep, both in "Caucasians" and "Mongolids" you find neanderthal genes, this is due to the fact that Homo Sapiens in emigrating out of africa encountered in the arabian peninsula some Homo Neanderthalensis , there happened some mixing between the two species (even if today scientist have to modify the fact they were of two dinstinct species, since they were able to procreate a fertil offspring, so they weren't of "different specie"); then this genes spread with both proto mongolians people who moved in east asia from the arabian peninsula, and to proto caucasians who headed in europe, north africa and south asia.
Also amerinds have neanderthal admixture obviously,
Sub saharian africans are pure Homo Sapiens.
Today the adimxture of neanderthal in non-subsagarians is of 4-5% of genes

Where the Neanderthal inhabitated
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/25/Range_of_Homo_neanderthalensis.png

L.D.Brousse
05-07-12, 04:42
Do you think this mixure made Europeans White ?

JFWR
05-07-12, 06:27
yep, both in "Caucasians" and "Mongolids" you find neanderthal genes, this is due to the fact that Homo Sapiens in emigrating out of africa encountered in the arabian peninsula some Homo Neanderthalensis , there happened some mixing between the two species (even if today scientist have to modify the fact they were of two dinstinct species, since they were able to procreate a fertil offspring, so they weren't of "different specie"); then this genes spread with both proto mongolians people who moved in east asia from the arabian peninsula, and to proto caucasians who headed in europe, north africa and south asia.
Also amerinds have neanderthal admixture obviously,
Sub saharian africans are pure Homo Sapiens.
Today the adimxture of neanderthal in non-subsagarians is of 4-5% of genes

Where the Neanderthal inhabitated
Good post, although one thing: Scientists don't really have a legitimate definition of "species". The idea that two populations cannot breed and produce fertile offspring isn't the case in many distinct species of animals. Neanderthal was certainly still a different species, but it was still close enough to be able to produce fertile offspring.

zanipolo
05-07-12, 23:00
yep, both in "Caucasians" and "Mongolids" you find neanderthal genes, this is due to the fact that Homo Sapiens in emigrating out of africa encountered in the arabian peninsula some Homo Neanderthalensis , there happened some mixing between the two species (even if today scientist have to modify the fact they were of two dinstinct species, since they were able to procreate a fertil offspring, so they weren't of "different specie"); then this genes spread with both proto mongolians people who moved in east asia from the arabian peninsula, and to proto caucasians who headed in europe, north africa and south asia.
Also amerinds have neanderthal admixture obviously,
Sub saharian africans are pure Homo Sapiens.
Today the adimxture of neanderthal in non-subsagarians is of 4-5% of genes

Where the Neanderthal inhabitated
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/25/Range_of_Homo_neanderthalensis.png

i recently saw a BBC show on this topic and this map is correct.
The show ( recently made) basically made these points

1 - humans and neanderthals where both equal in intelligent in tool usage, hunting and other issues and the reason neanderthals eventually died out was the very low sperm count. They recently found a 30000 year old neaderthal flute in southwest germany.

2 - the last refuge of the neaderthals was gibraltar
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gorham%27s_Cave

3 - lighter skin pigmentation was only due to evolution in allowing vitamin D to enter the body. Basically darker skin has a need for a greater time in daylight in colder climates. So the pigmentation changed over time for the human. There was no malform neaderthal bones found, but here was human ones found in europe.

4 - human where slightly taller and had a oval rib cage, while the neaderthals was a barrel type of rib cage

5 - there are about 10% of today's europeans which have neaderthal genes, these are only found in todays, HG of I, K, L, T, G and F ..........I might have missed some

6 - The oldest grain area was on today's borders of syria and turkey. Grain is still agricultured today in small quanties

this below was part of the program
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6bekli_Tepe

julia90
05-07-12, 23:33
Do you think this mixure made Europeans White ?

No, thought at the beginning the mixture could have accelerated the process of getting the skin more white; but even if they didn't mix, at the end homo sapiens living in temperate climates (europe and central east asia) would have slowliy changed his pigmentation...

also aborigines are part neanderthals, because they discends from the same people who spreaded in east asia, but they have adapted to retain dark sikin because living near the equator

Knovas
06-07-12, 00:22
5 - there are about 10% of today's europeans which have neaderthal genes, these are only found in todays, HG of I, K, L, T, G and F ..........I might have missed some
┬┐Sorry? All Europeans carry Neanderthal genes, there's no exeption. And by the way, I don't see the point mentioning haplogroups, since we don't know anything about Neanderthal haplogroups. It's too much of an assumption saying some of their haplogroups survived untill nowadays.

zanipolo
06-07-12, 00:59
┬┐Sorry? All Europeans carry Neanderthal genes, there's no exeption. And by the way, I don't see the point mentioning haplogroups, since we don't know anything about Neanderthal haplogroups. It's too much of an assumption saying some of their haplogroups survived untill nowadays.

sorry , the program stated 10% and it was a 2 year old program, I since have only found this below
. An estimated 1 to 4 percent of the DNA in Europeans and Asians (French, Chinese and Papua probands) is non-modern, and shared with ancient Neanderthal DNA rather than with Sub-Saharan Africans (Yoruba and San probands).[87] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neanderthal#cite_note-86) Nonetheless, more recent genetic studies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetics) seem to suggest that modern humans (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_humans) may have mated with "at least two groups" of ancient humans (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_humans): Neanderthals (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neanderthals) and Denisovans (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denisovans).[88] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neanderthal#cite_note-NYT-01302012-87) While modern humans share some nuclear DNA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_DNA) with the extinct Neanderthals, the two species do not share any mitochondrial DNA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_DNA),[89] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neanderthal#cite_note-88) which in primates is always maternally transmitted. This observation has prompted the hypothesis that whereas female humans interbreeding with male Neanderthals were able to generate fertile offspring, the progeny of female Neanderthals who mated with male humans were either rare, absent or sterile.[90] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neanderthal#cite_note-89)


which indicates lower than 10%

There is a university in germany who studies the neanderthal genes, why do you say there are no markers? what did they have then?

Goga
06-07-12, 12:05
To my knowledge, this are basically deep Sub-Saharan populations, not sure about specific ethnic groups though. My guess are specially Mbuti Pygmies, Biaka Pygmies, and a few San from Namibia, who are the best preserved African populations in genetic terms.They can be mixed with other non-Homosapien humanoid species only local to Africa.

But you're right that it might be that they're the purest Africans.

Knovas
06-07-12, 13:03
sorry , the program stated 10% and it was a 2 year old program, I since have only found this below
. An estimated 1 to 4 percent of the DNA in Europeans and Asians (French, Chinese and Papua probands) is non-modern, and shared with ancient Neanderthal DNA rather than with Sub-Saharan Africans (Yoruba and San probands).[87] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neanderthal#cite_note-86) Nonetheless, more recent genetic studies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetics) seem to suggest that modern humans (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_humans) may have mated with "at least two groups" of ancient humans (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_humans): Neanderthals (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neanderthals) and Denisovans (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denisovans).[88] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neanderthal#cite_note-NYT-01302012-87) While modern humans share some nuclear DNA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_DNA) with the extinct Neanderthals, the two species do not share any mitochondrial DNA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_DNA),[89] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neanderthal#cite_note-88) which in primates is always maternally transmitted. This observation has prompted the hypothesis that whereas female humans interbreeding with male Neanderthals were able to generate fertile offspring, the progeny of female Neanderthals who mated with male humans were either rare, absent or sterile.[90] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neanderthal#cite_note-89)


which indicates lower than 10%

There is a university in germany who studies the neanderthal genes, why do you say there are no markers? what did they have then?
The fact is all Europeans carry Neanderthal genes. First of all, % of the DNA and % of todays Europeans does not mean the same. Also, I'm not saying there are no markers, just pointing that those markers have absolutely nothing to do with haplogroups. There's no info available concerning Neanderthal haplogroups, hence, it's impossible to find any similarity with modern ones. They simply compared parts of the genome which seem to be common in both Neanderthals and modern Europeans, that's all.

Knovas
06-07-12, 13:05
They can be mixed with other non-Homosapien humanoid species only local to Africa.

But you're right that it might be that they're the purest Africans.
I don't know if they still carry some Neanderthal genes, but it would be pretty insignificant compared to other populations. Don't forget we are discussing which populations have the LEAST amount of Neanderthal genes ;)

wormhole
07-08-12, 05:41
yep, both in "Caucasians" and "Mongolids" you find neanderthal genes, this is due to the fact that Homo Sapiens in emigrating out of africa encountered in the arabian peninsula some Homo Neanderthalensis , there happened some mixing between the two species (even if today scientist have to modify the fact they were of two dinstinct species, since they were able to procreate a fertil offspring, so they weren't of "different specie"); then this genes spread with both proto mongolians people who moved in east asia from the arabian peninsula, and to proto caucasians who headed in europe, north africa and south asia.
Also amerinds have neanderthal admixture obviously,
Sub saharian africans are pure Homo Sapiens.
Today the adimxture of neanderthal in non-subsagarians is of 4-5% of genes
No, they're a mix between H.erects and H.sapiens