PDA

View Full Version : a few questions by novice



the new user
06-07-12, 16:45
hello people, I have some questions. I'm not good at this but I'm sure there are some people who can answer my questions

are all blonde/red hair and blue/gray eyed people relative? what are their possible y-dna haplogroups?


for example what race can be blonde/red with blue/gray eyed people in Turkey? are they can be original Turks from central asia? or they are assimilated people?

I'm trying to trace my ancestors. who were they? where they came from? or were they native?

I'm sorry if those are noob questions but as I said I'm novice yet and learning. so, please help me to find my ancestors.

L.D.Brousse
06-07-12, 17:09
Could be Kurds as well

JFWR
06-07-12, 17:11
hello people, I have some questions. I'm not good at this but I'm sure there are some people who can answer my questions

are all blonde/red hair and blue/gray eyed people relative? what are their possible y-dna haplogroups?


for example what race can be blonde/red with blue/gray eyed people in Turkey? are they can be original Turks from central asia? or they are assimilated people?

I'm trying to trace my ancestors. who were they? where they came from? or were they native?

I'm sorry if those are noob questions but as I said I'm novice yet and learning. so, please help me to find my ancestors.

No, blonde hair, red hair, blue eyes, and green eyes occur across many European populations. As such, the haplogroups will correspond across most European haplogroups. However, as the highest concentration of these things are amongst Northern Europeans, you're more likely to find them in Haplogroup I and R1b. There are also a few sub-Saharan Africans who also have natural red hair. This is very rare and part of one group.

It is unlikely that someone with natural blonde or red hair is a Turk from a Mongoloid type of Turkic people. They are likely descended from a Caucasoid people during the Ottoman Empire. Mongoloid types have black and brown hair as a rule. You may have an ancestor that is Greek, Thracian, Macedonian, Armenian, Kurdish, or some type of Slavic. Your haplogroup may help to tell you something about this, but the haplogroup doesn't tell the whole of your ancestry, just your direct patrilineal and matrilineal line. So, for instance, your mother's father has no haplogroup input in your haplogroup, nor your father's mother.

Turkey is a great country, by the way. I've been. HIghly enjoyed everything there.

the new user
06-07-12, 17:13
ah I know kurds very well. kurds are not blonde, there are tons of kurd where I live and they are all middle eastern.

if you want some detail, I'm talking about totally baltid looking people

the new user
06-07-12, 17:18
No, blonde hair, red hair, blue eyes, and green eyes occur across many European populations. As such, the haplogroups will correspond across most European haplogroups. However, as the highest concentration of these things are amongst Northern Europeans, you're more likely to find them in Haplogroup I and R1b. There are also a few sub-Saharan Africans who also have natural red hair. This is very rare and part of one group.

It is unlikely that someone with natural blonde or red hair is a Turk from a Mongoloid type of Turkic people. They are likely descended from a Caucasoid people during the Ottoman Empire. Mongoloid types have black and brown hair as a rule. You may have an ancestor that is Greek, Thracian, Macedonian, Armenian, Kurdish, or some type of Slavic. Your haplogroup may help to tell you something about this, but the haplogroup doesn't tell the whole of your ancestry, just your direct patrilineal and matrilineal line. So, for instance, your mother's father has no haplogroup input in your haplogroup, nor your father's mother.

Turkey is a great country, by the way. I've been. HIghly enjoyed everything there.

thank you so much for the reply. I want to give some more details my family members looks totally baltid. and as far as I know my paternal grandfathers were noble in Ottoman army. they have their own soldiers and fief. also my village's name is an ancient Greek name people still using greek name today.

also there are some non turkish words in my parents language

Peder-Father
Birader-Brother
Abrul-April
and some armenian and greek words

also there is a church middle of my village

Knovas
06-07-12, 17:47
There are few Turkish samples in the Dodecad dataset which ressemble Greeks. They could be of Western Anatolian origins.

┬┐Maybe your origins as well?

JFWR
06-07-12, 17:55
thank you so much for the reply. I want to give some more details my family members looks totally baltid. and as far as I know my paternal grandfathers were noble in Ottoman army. they have their own soldiers and fief. also my village's name is an ancient Greek name people still using greek name today.

also there are some non turkish words in my parents language

Peder-Father
Birader-Brother
Abrul-April
and some armenian and greek words

also there is a church middle of my village

As the Ottoman Empire was heavily cosmopolitan and featured a high proportion of Greek people inside of it, especially from Greek villages, it is likely your ancestors had some Greek admixture. You seem like a classic case where that is heavily a possibility.

You must remember that Turkey does have a strong history of being mixed with the pre-existent Greek populations and then later the Greek migrations in the Ottoman Empire. Previous to Turkish control of Asia Minor, Western Turkey was dominated by Greeks (and later Romans) from the end of the Stone Age onward. In the east, you have another Indo-European people in the Hittites being the predominate power in deep antiquity. So in any sense, the Turkish invasion in the 7th century faced a very strongly non-Turkic population that they merged with.

I mean, honestly, your parentage could be any of this. Could you tell us what village your family comes from? That's probably a great way to understand stuff. If, as you say, it is heavily Greek and with a church, then you are likely Greek in part.

the new user
06-07-12, 17:56
I'm not nationalist and all nations same for me. just want to know their story. how they came there? when they arrived? etc. but as far as I know this is impossible to know. but maybe there can be little signs. so, I'm here.

L.D.Brousse
06-07-12, 18:24
I saw quite a few European looking Kurds during the war in 2008 living near the Turkish border

Yetos
06-07-12, 19:11
thank you so much for the reply. I want to give some more details my family members looks totally baltid. and as far as I know my paternal grandfathers were noble in Ottoman army. they have their own soldiers and fief. also my village's name is an ancient Greek name people still using greek name today.

also there are some non turkish words in my parents language

Peder-Father
Birader-Brother
Abrul-April
and some armenian and greek words

also there is a church middle of my village

majority of Turkey population is not Turkish,
it is local minor Asian, Greek, Thracian, Caucasian, Levantine, etc

Blondism is a 'mutation' that happened probably around Baltic but it is not imposible to expand in Turkic steppes,
so it is not possible that some Turks might be blond,

Greek church does not mean to much cause the whole of Turkey once was Christian, it means that your village was until recent Christian,

Blondism in Turkey has to do mainly with ancient Thracians or Greco-Thracians, some Varrangians or Rus castle, some crusading, much with some Caucasian populations, and some Scythian Aryan or Iranian populations
Blondism that belong to proto Turks that enter minor Asian Seljuk etc, can be, but in very small limit,

Red hair has also but mainly with ancient minor Asian population, some Armenians, etc

genetical test can help you better, as also the history of your family.

zanipolo
06-07-12, 21:28
Ancient stories say
green eyes and red hair are thracians
blue eyes are persians
grey eyes are from the caucasus
pale blonde from the baltic
golden blonde from the caucasus and dorians
light brown hair from alpine areas

this is old tales, my hairdresser a turkish woman ( who says 7 generations turkish ) is blonde and grey eyed and was originally from estonia. Basically, what I am saying is, migrations have watered down the value of hair and eye colour as a marker of race or geography

JFWR
07-07-12, 03:33
majority of Turkey population is not Turkish,
it is local minor Asian, Greek, Thracian, Caucasian, Levantine, etc

Blondism is a 'mutation' that happened probably around Baltic but it is not imposible to expand in Turkic steppes,
so it is not possible that some Turks might be blond,

Greek church does not mean to much cause the whole of Turkey once was Christian, it means that your village was until recent Christian,

Blondism in Turkey has to do mainly with ancient Thracians or Greco-Thracians, some Varrangians or Rus castle, some crusading, much with some Caucasian populations, and some Scythian Aryan or Iranian populations
Blondism that belong to proto Turks that enter minor Asian Seljuk etc, can be, but in very small limit,

Red hair has also but mainly with ancient minor Asian population, some Armenians, etc

genetical test can help you better, as also the history of your family.
At one point all of Turkey was Christian. The Roman and Byzantine periods had almost all of Turkey convert to Christianity. Almost all the churches that Paul wrote to were in Asia Minor.


Ancient stories say
green eyes and red hair are thracians
blue eyes are persians
grey eyes are from the caucasus
pale blonde from the baltic
golden blonde from the caucasus and dorians
light brown hair from alpine areas

this is old tales, my hairdresser a turkish woman ( who says 7 generations turkish ) is blonde and grey eyed and was originally from estonia. Basically, what I am saying is, migrations have watered down the value of hair and eye colour as a marker of race or geography

All the lands you reference are of Indo-European peoples as opposed to Mongoloid. The Turkic peoples are closer to Mongoloid than Indo-European (although they somewhat bridge the gap in many lands). The idea is that he wanted to know if this indicated he wasn't an Asiatic/Mongoloid Turkic. It almost surely does show he has at least partial non-Turkic DNA.

Gosh
07-07-12, 10:16
However, as the highest concentration of these things are amongst Northern Europeans, you're more likely to find them in Haplogroup I and R1b. There are also a few sub-Saharan Africans who also have natural red hair. This is very rare and part of one group.


As I know the highest percentage of blond people is among N1c haplogrpup which is closely related with "asian-looking" subclades from northern Russia.

The highest concentration of blond hair/eyes people is between Estonians (90-95%) and they have cca 40% of N1c.

I'm not sure that bearers of hg I are blond in a higher percent.

JFWR
07-07-12, 10:48
As I know the highest percentage of blond people is among N1c haplogrpup which is closely related with "asian-looking" subclades from northern Russia.

The highest concentration of blond hair/eyes people is between Estonians (90-95%) and they have cca 40% of N1c.

I'm not sure that bearers of hg I are blond in a higher percent.

Haplogroup I is common amongst Germanic and Slavic populations, which have a high rate of fair and red hair. However, as Haplogroup I is less common than R by a degree, there is a possibility that it has a lower concentration of blonde hair.

Haplogroup N might be associated with Asiatic Northern Russians, but its prevalence in Estonians doesn't correlate well with Mongoloid features, and I don't know of any Russian/Northern European natives who routinely have blonde hair aside from the Sami. Haplogroup I is second most common after N in Sami populations. They're fairly thoroughly mixed with European populations.

Gosh
07-07-12, 20:35
Here it is:

5678

5679


5680

Olga
26-07-12, 17:31
i think you have some great answers here already, but I would agree that the would have come down to Turkey from the Thracian gene pool