Help in defining my R1b haplogroup

joechill01

Regular Member
Messages
77
Reaction score
2
Points
0
Y-DNA haplogroup
R1b1a2a1a1b*
mtDNA haplogroup
U5b1b1
As far as tests go I have only done 23andme, much to my disappointment once I found out that they don't really go into great depths as far as R1b subclades go. I have been labeled as R1b1b2a1a but thanks to their Haplogroup Tree Mutation Mapper program I was able to test each one of my SNP's in more depth. R1b's are simplistically broken-up into two branches: P312 (Italo-Celtic) and U106 (Germanic), I have tested negative for both but some feature called the dbSNP Orientation says that between the two I have a "plus" in the U106 while a "minus" for P312. What does that actually mean? That my genotypes are more inclined to one side than the other?

Maybe I'm splitting hairs but as I kept testing for more SNP's I found myself matching for subclades deeper in both branches. I have been tested positive for M222, L20 and S47 on the P312 side while on the U106 I was positive for U198 and L47. So am I U106 and P312 negative because I fall into another sibling branch? Who knows if I can hit any other subclades as 23andme uses RefSNP's so finding the Rs sequence for them is very limited so if you all know of links or databases please post them.

This is where I get confused...M222 and U198 are rare and can be found within restricted borders such as North Ireland and West Scotland for M222; South England and Northern Germany for U198. I have read in other websites that M222 can be traced to Irish high-king Niall of the Nine Hostages while U198 can be assumed to be Anglo-Saxons (I disagree there as I believe they were straight-up Saxons). So how can I be both Y subclades? Does my MtDNA go into account here? My MtDNA is U5b1b1 which is tied to the Saami people of Scandinavia, if so then it might explain why I am also positive for some I haplogroup makers such as M307, P30, M26, M426 and P40. But I don't think the MtDNA plays such an important factor in defining a Y haplogroup but I could be wrong. The idea of my ancestors starting around the Alps and slowly moving up and mixing with local Nordic tribes to forum the Germanic R1b only to run into their Gaelic cousins in England or Scotland while conquering sounds very possible to me.

I have also read that Niall himself wasn't M222 but rather his offspring started to carry the mutation later on after his death. Niall's father was somewhere from France while his mother was said to be a Saxon princess but was later thought to be a Breton. Could she be carrying the U198 mutation with her?

Or maybe it might have to do with the S46 and L47 mutation... As far as genetics go, Celts and Germanic people come from the same parent R haplogroup and maybe this S46 and L47 is some kind of link between the two people. I can only assume this because the lack of information I was unable to find of the two and am only guessing some connection because of the similar number as simplistic as that sounds.

I hope you can help me fit the puzzle pieces together and forum some tangible thesis for who my ancestors might have been.
 
Found an interesting source of information from Google Maps, its seems that the Celtic L20 mutation was carried by a group of Bituriges-Cubi Celts who split off from the other to form two parties and moved to modern day Germany and Italy. The reason for this was stated due to overpopulation, it also mentioned by Roman author Livy; that the group who ventured towards Germany settled around the northeastern Jutland area and became the Angles.

So given the information I have last posted about my haplogroup, does this mean that the Bituriges-Cubi Celts could be my ancestors or is it just a close genetic match? If they are my kin then it all makes sense as they eventually became Angles which would then explain for me being U198 positive as well as showing marks for the I Haplogroup (due to breeding with the locals). And how old is U198? I heard it was the oldest of the U106 branch but I would like to estimate to pinpoint if it was the Angles or Danish Vikings that brought it to England.

It seems like a fit but what do y'all think? I'm still trying to understand how I would have had the M222 mutation be introduced to my genetic soup. Love to hear your theories and again, if you have any information on S46 or L47 please post them here or inbox me. Thank you
 
FTDNA Deep Clade test will assign you to the the right subclade, and if any further tests are necessary the project coordinators will advice you for which SNP or STR test to undertake.
 
Plus means that you are R1b1a2a1a1a/U106 and not P312.

I'm U106+ even if I got a C between C and T?

Thanks for your posts Kardu, really appreciate the help. I'll be posting my results here once I find out what it is.
 
Confirmed (+) SNPs define the subclades one belongs to.

Sure, no prob :) looking forward for your results!
 
Finally got my results in!!!! Can't make to much sense of what ft dna is trying to tell and I'm not too experienced in using dys system so I hope someone can tell me what haplogroup I belong to.

DYS393-13
DYS390-24
DYS19**-14
DYS391-11
DYS385-12-14
DYS426-12
DYS388-13
DYS439-12
DYS389i-15
DYS392-13
DYS389ii***-31
 
FTDNA hasn't assigned you one yet? :) Those markers aren't enough. Predictor gives just: Haplogroup Probability
R1b1b2-M269 58%
 
Just called their office and they told me that because my markers didn't match any in their database that I'm qualified for a free test. So another 3-4 weeks to wait for my results...what a drag but at least its free.

In one of the pages called Ancestral Origins (which is the only page with any info) it reads:
Genetic Distance
Germany 1:
12073 < 0.1 %
United Kingdom
2:
10657 < 0.1 %

So what does that mean exactly? I don't want to speculate anything right away but does that confirm a U106 connection?
 
Genetic distance 1 on 12 markers only doesn't confirm anything.

Check Haplogroup Origins as well.

Do you have any matches btw?
 
Genetic distance 1 on 12 markers only doesn't confirm anything.

Check Haplogroup Origins as well.

Do you have any matches btw?

No. Though Ftdna is doing a Y-HAP backbone test as my sample didn't match any in there database
 
Last edited:
No. Though Ftdna is doing a Y-HAP backbone test as my sample didn't match any in there database

Hmm, no match for R1b person is pretty rare.. :) Interesting.. Let's see what further testing shows
 
Well I finally got my results back, I'm m269+. Does that mean I belong to the R1b1a2* subclade for sure or do I require a deepclade testing?

With each subclade costing a pop do you think I can figure it using 23andme's mutation mapper?
 
Last edited:
So 23andme has me labeled R1b1b2a1a and ftdna R1b1a2*so which one is it and what does that say about me and my bloodline?
 
SNPwise FTDNA is more thruthworthy. Can you list all the snips you were tested for? M269+ good, as it's expected. What are the others? Especially with minus?
 
SNPwise FTDNA is more thruthworthy. Can you list all the snips you were tested for? M269+ good, as it's expected. What are the others? Especially with minus?

How can I check that?
 
MyFtdna --> Y-DNA --> Haplotree

The necessary info will be on the top
 
It just says M269 test taken and nothing else.
 
Right, sorry, I've just re-read previous posts and saw that it was a backbone test (I thought it was a deep-clade). Yeah, it wouldn't go downstream. So in this case R1b1b2a1a by 23andme is correct.
It can get more specific (or just confirm the 23andme result) if you order the deep-clade test.
 

This thread has been viewed 71395 times.

Back
Top