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joechill01
04-08-12, 01:00
As far as tests go I have only done 23andme, much to my disappointment once I found out that they don't really go into great depths as far as R1b subclades go. I have been labeled as R1b1b2a1a but thanks to their Haplogroup Tree Mutation Mapper program I was able to test each one of my SNP's in more depth. R1b's are simplistically broken-up into two branches: P312 (Italo-Celtic) and U106 (Germanic), I have tested negative for both but some feature called the dbSNP Orientation says that between the two I have a "plus" in the U106 while a "minus" for P312. What does that actually mean? That my genotypes are more inclined to one side than the other?

Maybe I'm splitting hairs but as I kept testing for more SNP's I found myself matching for subclades deeper in both branches. I have been tested positive for M222, L20 and S47 on the P312 side while on the U106 I was positive for U198 and L47. So am I U106 and P312 negative because I fall into another sibling branch? Who knows if I can hit any other subclades as 23andme uses RefSNP's so finding the Rs sequence for them is very limited so if you all know of links or databases please post them.

This is where I get confused...M222 and U198 are rare and can be found within restricted borders such as North Ireland and West Scotland for M222; South England and Northern Germany for U198. I have read in other websites that M222 can be traced to Irish high-king Niall of the Nine Hostages while U198 can be assumed to be Anglo-Saxons (I disagree there as I believe they were straight-up Saxons). So how can I be both Y subclades? Does my MtDNA go into account here? My MtDNA is U5b1b1 which is tied to the Saami people of Scandinavia, if so then it might explain why I am also positive for some I haplogroup makers such as M307, P30, M26, M426 and P40. But I don't think the MtDNA plays such an important factor in defining a Y haplogroup but I could be wrong. The idea of my ancestors starting around the Alps and slowly moving up and mixing with local Nordic tribes to forum the Germanic R1b only to run into their Gaelic cousins in England or Scotland while conquering sounds very possible to me.

I have also read that Niall himself wasn't M222 but rather his offspring started to carry the mutation later on after his death. Niall's father was somewhere from France while his mother was said to be a Saxon princess but was later thought to be a Breton. Could she be carrying the U198 mutation with her?

Or maybe it might have to do with the S46 and L47 mutation... As far as genetics go, Celts and Germanic people come from the same parent R haplogroup and maybe this S46 and L47 is some kind of link between the two people. I can only assume this because the lack of information I was unable to find of the two and am only guessing some connection because of the similar number as simplistic as that sounds.

I hope you can help me fit the puzzle pieces together and forum some tangible thesis for who my ancestors might have been.

joechill01
06-08-12, 21:24
Found an interesting source of information from Google Maps, its seems that the Celtic L20 mutation was carried by a group of Bituriges-Cubi Celts who split off from the other to form two parties and moved to modern day Germany and Italy. The reason for this was stated due to overpopulation, it also mentioned by Roman author Livy; that the group who ventured towards Germany settled around the northeastern Jutland area and became the Angles.

So given the information I have last posted about my haplogroup, does this mean that the Bituriges-Cubi Celts could be my ancestors or is it just a close genetic match? If they are my kin then it all makes sense as they eventually became Angles which would then explain for me being U198 positive as well as showing marks for the I Haplogroup (due to breeding with the locals). And how old is U198? I heard it was the oldest of the U106 branch but I would like to estimate to pinpoint if it was the Angles or Danish Vikings that brought it to England.

It seems like a fit but what do y'all think? I'm still trying to understand how I would have had the M222 mutation be introduced to my genetic soup. Love to hear your theories and again, if you have any information on S46 or L47 please post them here or inbox me. Thank you

Kardu
09-08-12, 23:25
Plus means that you are R1b1a2a1a1a/U106 and not P312.

So this project would be for you:

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/u106/

Check the results, maps etc.

Kardu
09-08-12, 23:27
Check the general project out as well

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/r1b/

Kardu
09-08-12, 23:30
FTDNA Deep Clade test will assign you to the the right subclade, and if any further tests are necessary the project coordinators will advice you for which SNP or STR test to undertake.

joechill01
11-08-12, 18:19
Plus means that you are R1b1a2a1a1a/U106 and not P312.


I'm U106+ even if I got a C between C and T?

Thanks for your posts Kardu, really appreciate the help. I'll be posting my results here once I find out what it is.

Kardu
12-08-12, 20:27
Confirmed (+) SNPs define the subclades one belongs to.

Sure, no prob :) looking forward for your results!

joechill01
03-10-12, 06:08
Finally got my results in!!!! Can't make to much sense of what ft dna is trying to tell and I'm not too experienced in using dys system so I hope someone can tell me what haplogroup I belong to.

DYS393-13
DYS390-24
DYS19**-14
DYS391-11
DYS385-12-14
DYS426-12
DYS388-13
DYS439-12
DYS389i-15
DYS392-13
DYS389ii***-31

Kardu
03-10-12, 11:39
FTDNA hasn't assigned you one yet? :) Those markers aren't enough. Predictor gives just: Haplogroup Probability
R1b1b2-M269 58%

joechill01
03-10-12, 16:57
Just called their office and they told me that because my markers didn't match any in their database that I'm qualified for a free test. So another 3-4 weeks to wait for my results...what a drag but at least its free.

In one of the pages called Ancestral Origins (which is the only page with any info) it reads:
Genetic Distance


Germany
1:

12073
< 0.1 %






United Kingdom

2:

10657
< 0.1 %



So what does that mean exactly? I don't want to speculate anything right away but does that confirm a U106 connection?

Kardu
03-10-12, 22:40
Genetic distance 1 on 12 markers only doesn't confirm anything.

Check Haplogroup Origins as well.

Do you have any matches btw?

joechill01
04-10-12, 01:22
Genetic distance 1 on 12 markers only doesn't confirm anything.

Check Haplogroup Origins as well.

Do you have any matches btw?

No. Though Ftdna is doing a Y-HAP backbone test as my sample didn't match any in there database

Kardu
04-10-12, 08:00
No. Though Ftdna is doing a Y-HAP backbone test as my sample didn't match any in there database

Hmm, no match for R1b person is pretty rare.. :) Interesting.. Let's see what further testing shows

joechill01
25-10-12, 18:01
Well I finally got my results back, I'm m269+. Does that mean I belong to the R1b1a2* subclade for sure or do I require a deepclade testing?

With each subclade costing a pop do you think I can figure it using 23andme's mutation mapper?

joechill01
26-10-12, 00:33
So 23andme has me labeled R1b1b2a1a and ftdna R1b1a2*so which one is it and what does that say about me and my bloodline?

Kardu
27-10-12, 23:17
SNPwise FTDNA is more thruthworthy. Can you list all the snips you were tested for? M269+ good, as it's expected. What are the others? Especially with minus?

joechill01
28-10-12, 00:02
SNPwise FTDNA is more thruthworthy. Can you list all the snips you were tested for? M269+ good, as it's expected. What are the others? Especially with minus?

How can I check that?

Kardu
28-10-12, 17:18
MyFtdna --> Y-DNA --> Haplotree

The necessary info will be on the top

joechill01
28-10-12, 19:24
It just says M269 test taken and nothing else.

Kardu
28-10-12, 20:59
Right, sorry, I've just re-read previous posts and saw that it was a backbone test (I thought it was a deep-clade). Yeah, it wouldn't go downstream. So in this case R1b1b2a1a by 23andme is correct.
It can get more specific (or just confirm the 23andme result) if you order the deep-clade test.

joechill01
29-10-12, 00:28
Right, sorry, I've just re-read previous posts and saw that it was a backbone test (I thought it was a deep-clade). Yeah, it wouldn't go downstream. So in this case R1b1b2a1a by 23andme is correct.
It can get more specific (or just confirm the 23andme result) if you order the deep-clade test.

Is there someway I can save a few bucks and time by using 23andme mutation mapper to pinpoint or guess my subclade?

Kardu
29-10-12, 03:02
Perhaps one way would be to send your raw 23andme data to Adriano Squecco at [email protected]

He does free YDNA analysis (and adds data to his database). You can find out more about the project here:

https://www.facebook.com/pages/YDNA-SNPs-Comparison-Project/166307390055000?v=wall

joechill01
29-10-12, 04:59
Just send him an email.

Thanks again Kardu, you really been a great help with all of this!

Kardu
29-10-12, 12:16
Sure, glad to help if I can :)

joechill01
02-11-12, 06:26
I went and got the deepclade test so I'll be posting my results in 3-4 weeks hopefully

Kardu
02-11-12, 11:03
Cool :) Any news from Squecco?

joechill01
21-11-12, 18:48
Ftdna just told me my deepclade results won't come till December 17 and I'm already dieing of the wait...can anyone at least tell me if my dys value leans towards p312 or u106? I did the prediction and I got this

R1b-North/South 2 =>32% R1b-Leinster =>32% R1b =>7% R1b-North/South 1 =>7% R1b-S26 =>7% R1b-S28 =>7% R1b-IrishIII =>2% R1b-Ub =>2% I-P37.2 =>1% R1b-Frisian =>1% R1b-C.Europe =>1%

as for my dys value they are as followed:
DYS393-13
DYS390-24
DYS19**-14
DYS391-11
DYS385-12-14
DYS426-12
DYS388-13
DYS439-12
DYS389i-15
DYS392-13
DYS389ii***-31

zanipolo
21-11-12, 20:39
Ftdna just told me my deepclade results won't come till December 17 and I'm already dieing of the wait...can anyone at least tell me if my dys value leans towards p312 or u106? I did the prediction and I got this

R1b-North/South 2 =>32% R1b-Leinster =>32% R1b =>7% R1b-North/South 1 =>7% R1b-S26 =>7% R1b-S28 =>7% R1b-IrishIII =>2% R1b-Ub =>2% I-P37.2 =>1% R1b-Frisian =>1% R1b-C.Europe =>1%

as for my dys value they are as followed:
DYS393-13
DYS390-24
DYS19**-14
DYS391-11
DYS385-12-14
DYS426-12
DYS388-13
DYS439-12
DYS389i-15
DYS392-13
DYS389ii***-31

Haplogroup Probability
R1b1b2-M269 58%

joechill01
22-11-12, 02:50
Haplogroup Probability
R1b1b2-M269 58%

ftdna confirmed that r1b1b2 is indeed my haplogroup but I'm interested on the subclade that I might fall into. Does the information I posted help in anyway?

zanipolo
22-11-12, 11:18
ftdna confirmed that r1b1b2 is indeed my haplogroup but I'm interested on the subclade that I might fall into. Does the information I posted help in anyway?


R1b1a2 (R-M269) R1b1a2 (2011 name) is defined by the presence of SNP marker M269. R1b1a2* or M269(xL23) is found at highest frequency in the central Balkans (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balkans) notably Kosovo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosovo) with 7.9%, Macedonia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Macedonia) 5.1% and Serbia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbia) 4.4%.[7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R1b_%28Y-DNA%29#cite_note-Myres2010-7) Kosovo is notable in also having a high percentage of descendant L23* or L23(xM412) at 11.4% unlike most other areas with significant percentages of M269* and L23* except for Poland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poland) with 2.4% and 9.5% and the Bashkirs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bashkirs) of southeast Bashkortostan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bashkortostan) with 2.4% and 32.2% respectively.[7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R1b_%28Y-DNA%29#cite_note-Myres2010-7) Notably this Bashkir population also has a high percentage of M269 sister branch M73 at 23.4%.[7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R1b_%28Y-DNA%29#cite_note-Myres2010-7) Five individuals out of 110 tested in the Ararat Valley, Armenia belonged to R1b1a2* and 36 to L23*, with none belonging to subclades of L23.[29] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R1b_%28Y-DNA%29#cite_note-29)
European R1b is dominated by R-M269. It has been found at generally low frequencies throughout central Eurasia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurasia),[24] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R1b_%28Y-DNA%29#cite_note-Underhill2000-24) but with relatively high frequency among Bashkirs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bashkirs) of the Perm (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perm) Region (84.0%).[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R1b_%28Y-DNA%29#cite_note-ftp.anrb.ru-3) This marker is also present in China and India at frequencies of less than one percent. The table below lists in more detail the frequencies of M269 in various regions in Asia, Europe, and Africa.
The frequency is about 71% in Scotland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotland), 70% in Spain (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spain) and 60% in France (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France). In south-eastern England (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/England) the frequency of this clade is about 70%; in parts of the rest of north and western England (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/England), Spain (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spain), Portugal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portugal), Wales (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wales) and Ireland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ireland), it is as high as 90%; and in parts of north-western Ireland it reaches 98%. It is also found in North Africa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Africa), where its frequency surpasses 10% in some parts of Algeria (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algeria).[30] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R1b_%28Y-DNA%29#cite_note-30)
From 2003 to 2005 what is now R1b1a2 was designated R1b3. From 2005 to 2008 it was R1b1c. From 2008 to 2011 it was R1b1b2.


M269


still un-defined
R-M269* (R1b1a2*)






L23


still un-defined
R-L23* (R1b1a2a*)






L150


still un-defined
R-L150* (R1ba2a1*)






L51/M412


still un-defined
R-L51*/R-M412* (R1b1a2a1a*)






P310/L11


still un-defined
R-P310/L11* (R1b1a2a1a1*)






U106
R-U106 (R1b1a2a1a1a)






P312
R-P312 (R1b1a2a1a1b)



















R-L277 (R1b1a1a1b)














You have to pay for a SNP test.

I suggest you join a project team, and they can suggest one for you.

joechill01
27-11-12, 23:51
Just got an email back from Squecco, I got (R-M269 L52+)

sparkey
28-11-12, 00:27
Just got an email back from Squecco, I got (R-M269 L52+)

L52 is in the same location on the R1b tree as L11. You can find L11 on Maciamo's tree here (http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_R1b_Y-DNA.shtml) or on the ISOGG tree here (http://www.isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpR.html). Still not very specific... you haven't tested P312/S116 or U106/S21?

joechill01
28-11-12, 00:31
Just got an email back from Squecco, I got (R-M269 L52+)

What would that make me? I ask because I read that the highest percentage of m269 can be found with the bashkir people, 84% according to wiki but on the flip side 71% can be found in Scotland, 70% in Spain, 60% in France and a whooping 90% in north and western England, Portugal, Spain, Wales and Ireland but 98% north-western Ireland so pretty much Celtic areas which is common for r1b I believe.

So I ask what is L52 and what background does it hint to? I ask because I can find almost no information on it

joechill01
28-11-12, 00:32
L52 is in the same location on the R1b tree as L11. You can find L11 on Maciamo's tree here (http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_R1b_Y-DNA.shtml) or on the ISOGG tree here (http://www.isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpR.html). Still not very specific... you haven't tested P312/S116 or U106/S21?

Thanks Sparky and I'm taking a deepclade test with ftdna which the results should come around dec.17 if that still counts as a p312 and U106 test

Kardu
28-11-12, 01:26
According to Maciamo L11/S127, P311/S128, P310/S129 - Western Centum Indo-European speakers (Italo-Celtic and Germanic branches)

joechill01
29-11-12, 19:34
Does anyone know how to interpret Y-DNA STR tests? I did a ancestral map with Ancestral Origins along a go and never gave it much thought (because my strength indicators are all over Europe I couldn't make much of it) so I went online and read that STR tracks recent ancestry but can help in predicting your haplogroup. So here's my target profile:

14/18 16/17 20/21 12/15 28/30 14/15 10/12 8/? 10/11 10/11 8/11 8/9 10/11

Also just a side question, the website gave me this as well:

Total number of people with a complete set of genetic data at the genes in your target = 4631 <----- does that mean I'm related to 4631 people? o.O

joechill01
30-11-12, 20:07
So no help?

joechill01
18-12-12, 22:23
well I was suppose to get my ftdna results yesterday but the people of ftdna told me that I needed another 3 week because they found another hit and need more testing, in their own words "Your sample requires more than the average number of rounds to complete this testing process.". Should I be worried that their yanking my chain? This wasn't the first time they pushed back the due date.

It is not bad for I did get some results which much to my surprise and new found celtic pride: Its turns out I am P312+ M269+ U106- L144- L1-, which is the opposite of what 23andme was telling me. This news makes me weary of 23andme.

sparkey
18-12-12, 23:13
It is not bad for I did get some results which much to my surprise and new found celtic pride: Its turns out I am P312+ M269+ U106- L144- L1-, which is the opposite of what 23andme was telling me. This news makes me weary of 23andme.

That's an important start. Now it would be useful to know one step down from P312 (L21/M529 and S28/U152 are perhaps the most likely for you; DF27/S250 and L238/S182 are a couple of other possibilities).

joechill01
19-12-12, 03:00
That's an important start. Now it would be useful to know one step down from P312 (L21/M529 and S28/U152 are perhaps the most likely for you; DF27/S250 and L238/S182 are a couple of other possibilities).

Thanks sparkey, anyway of predicting which one? I only ask since I would like to be able to tell my family something in christmas.

On r1b genetic page on this site, it says l238 is nordic, l21 north atlantic and s28 italo-alpine but no info on df27. Would df27 be iberian or gaulish branch of r1b?

razyn
30-12-12, 03:27
Thanks sparkey, anyway of predicting which one? I only ask since I would like to be able to tell my family something in christmas.
In case you are still celebrating Christmas -- the R1b and Subclades haplogroup project at FTDNA has very recently been reshuffled in such a way that it's much easier to spot your matches, or near-matches, from their STR results -- and deduce your terminal SNP, or at least the one that would be the best bet for you to test next. Visit the project Results at this url (join it, if you have FTDNA test results) and reset the "page size" to display 2000 examples. That will be a large file, and might take a while to load. The people who match you most closely will probably have a SNP or three in common with you, more specific than P312.

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/atlantic-r1b1c/default.aspx?vgroup=atlantic-r1b1c%C2%A7ion=ycolorized

joechill01
30-12-12, 22:30
My ftdna results finally came through. I am p312 with evevything else negative making me r1b1a2a1a1b. I apperticate any information such as who and what kinda people carried the gene, what region is the haplogroup from and where can you find the highest %?

I read that p312 have a high % in France and Spain is this true? I ask because evidence might point to my family having origins in either country or both due to my last name being found in both and my appearance (I get often mistaken for being French when I am in mexico even by real French people) so I hope all this adds up somehow :grin:

joechill01
03-01-13, 21:30
any info on p312?

I was hoping to get some info if the carriers of this haplogroup, could they be Celtic Gauls or Iberian Celts?

joechill01
31-01-13, 07:50
Hello everyone, I am R1b1a2a1a1b* p312/s116 and am going to order to test the z196 snp. I just wanted to know if I come positive for z196 would that hint to a Iberian origin? I want to really narrow down the large p312 cluster into a specific area and been given some snps by ftdna Z209, Z220, Z216, Z278, Z214 and M153. I know M153 is Basque origin but what about the other Z snps? Is it possible to separate them into Portuguese, Spanish or French and pin point what region my first ancestor came from?

joechill01
08-05-13, 12:04
Hello everybody! I recently checked out 23andme's new features and will post my results. My haplogroup is P312* and I hope y'all be able to help me make sense of the data and how it ties to my ancestry.

(This is using 23's standard estimate feature)

87.9%


European



Southern European

20.0%

Iberian


0.7%

Italian


22.6%

Nonspecific Southern European






Northern European

1.2%

British and Irish


7.7%

Nonspecific Northern European




1.5%

Ashkenazi


34.3%

Nonspecific European




7.1%

East Asian & Native American

5.3%

Native American


1.8%

Nonspecific East Asian & Native American




0.1%

Sub-Saharan African


4.8%

Unassigned





My twin brother got a 0.3% for French and German while I got none. Our numbers change between the two and I know it must be the test itself but does that mean the % is simply misinforming and best taken with a grain of salt or is completely untrue? Is 1.5% enough to be considered Ashkenazi? I been told I should test for M153 to see if I'm Basque, given the data do you think it's a likely probability?

Well I love to hear your theories soon so post ASAP! :D

joechill01
09-05-13, 00:43
Is there anyway to find out what Native American tribe I might be carrying? Heard that Native American SNPs don't really test well for some reason.

joechill01
06-06-13, 20:38
Got my results from Dr. McDonald!

Most likely fit is 90.0% (+- 0.6%) Europe (all Western Europe)

and 10.0% (+- 0.6%) America (various subcontinents)



The following are possible population sets and their fractions,

most likely at the top

Spain= 0.890 Na-Dene= 0.110 or

Spain= 0.902 Maya= 0.098 or

Spain= 0.903 Pima= 0.097 or

Spain= 0.904 Columbian= 0.096



a better fit is



Spain 0.8393 Egyptian 0.0639 Maya 0.0967 or

Spain 0.8547 Moroccan 0.0478 Maya 0.0975 or

Spain 0.8975 Maya 0.0715 Na-Dene 0.0310



which is very very typical Latin American. It’s likely

not actual Egyptian, of course! PRobably the second line of three.

My question is what is the more likelihood of my Native American blood, is it Mayan or Na-Dene?

Kardu
07-06-13, 11:01
What kind of results do you get on Gedmatch?

zanipolo
07-06-13, 12:34
What kind of results do you get on Gedmatch?

my MDLP

what is GBRARG...........great britain arglye?





#
Population
Percent


1
Altaic_Turkic
0.00


2
South_Central_Asian
3.89


3
Paleo_North_European
0.21


4
Paleo_Mediterranean
29.83


5
Iberian
12.03


6
Caucasian
14.39


7
East_European
14.70


8
Paleo_Balkanic
2.51


9
British
20.98


10
Volga_Finnic
1.47




Pct. Calc. Option 2



1
NITAL
47.10%


2
NRUS
14.05%


3
LTH
7.42%


4
CITAL
6.89%


5
SPN
6.07%


6
GBRARG
5.20%


7
GYP
4.67%


8
IBR
4.54%


9
ARM
2.96%


10
KSV
1.08%



Total RMSD: 1.411675

Kardu
09-06-13, 16:11
Yes, Great Britain - Argyle.

EUtest on gedmatch seems very informative as well.

joechill01
19-06-13, 16:57
What kind of results do you get on Gedmatch?

Which one is the Gedmatch?

Kardu
20-06-13, 16:09
http://gedmatch.com/
You will need to upload your results file.

joechill01
20-06-13, 23:39
Thanks for the link Kardu! I found a GEDmatch section for 23andme members and I'm a little lost as I think the directions are a bit dated. This is taken from their website:

1. Log in to your 23andMe account (http://www.gedmatch.com/m-relationship_search1.php#).
2. Click on your name near the upper right corner of the page.
3. Click on "Ancestry Labs" in the column on the left side.
4. On the Ancestry (http://www.gedmatch.com/m-relationship_search1.php#) Labs page, click on the blue "Ancestry Finder" heading in the 2nd paragraph.
5. Near the bottom of the Ancestry Finder page, click on 'Download (your name) Ancestry Finder matches(CSV)'.
6. A box will open on your screen. Make note of the file name. It will probably consist of your name, 'Ancestry_Finder', the date as YYYYMMDD, followed by '.csv'
7. Make sure 'Save File' is selected, then click on 'Save'.
8. Make sure you notice where the file is saved.
9. On the form below, fill in the information, and click on 'Browse' to find the file you just saved.
10. Click on the 'Submit (http://www.gedmatch.com/m-relationship_search1.php#)' button.

Are they simply asking for my raw data correct?

Kardu
22-06-13, 19:13
Yes you would need to upload raw data but:

Autosomal raw DNA NOTICE: Due to the current processing backlog, we are temporarily suspending DNA uploads. We expect to start accepting new uploads on about August 15.

joechill01
23-06-13, 13:11
Thanks again for the help Kardu! Is GEDmatch worth it? I don't mind the wait though I would like to know what info I'll be getting back, such as is this GEDmatching my grandparents' DNA from both my haplogroups or something else entirely?

joechill01
24-07-13, 16:41
Since my bday is coming up soon, I would like to know what I should ask for from FTdna. Should I test for different SNPs from DF27 down (as I tested negative for the other p312 branches and do have a strong family tie to Spain) or should I order a 25 marker test? I would like to know what these different tests will reveal compared to each other, a list of pros and cons will help greatly.

Kardu
24-07-13, 17:59
Thanks again for the help Kardu! Is GEDmatch worth it? I don't mind the wait though I would like to know what info I'll be getting back, such as is this GEDmatching my grandparents' DNA from both my haplogroups or something else entirely?

Gedmatch is certainly worth it. It's full of free handy ancestry tools.

Kardu
24-07-13, 18:00
Since my bday is coming up soon, I would like to know what I should ask for from FTdna. Should I test for different SNPs from DF27 down (as I tested negative for the other p312 branches and do have a strong family tie to Spain) or should I order a 25 marker test? I would like to know what these different tests will reveal compared to each other, a list of pros and cons will help greatly.
I would go for more markers and Happy Birthday in advance! :)

Fire Haired
24-07-13, 18:14
i think just do as many markers as possible

Mikewww
24-07-13, 18:30
Since my bday is coming up soon, I would like to know what I should ask for from FTdna. Should I test for different SNPs from DF27 down (as I tested negative for the other p312 branches and do have a strong family tie to Spain) or should I order a 25 marker test? I would like to know what these different tests will reveal compared to each other, a list of pros and cons will help greatly.

You are P312+, though, right? If so, with the Iberian connection, odds are high you will be DF27+. However, you need to get your Y STRs anyway, as has been brought up. In my opinion, a minimum of 67 are needed but we know have 2000 L21+ 111 STR haplotypes now so that is growing.

If you have at least 67, I can compare you with other R1b people and we can see what they are positive for SNP-wise. Otherwise, we are hunting for an SNP by rifle shot but we are not sure which one we are hunting for. The other option is Geno 2, more like a shotgun/hand grenade, but eventually you'll still want 67 Y STRs anyway.

joechill01
30-09-13, 09:15
Results from using the GED's MDLP K=11 Oracle



1
Mediterranean
24.53


2
Celto_Germanic
21.91



3
Iberian
17.27


4
Altaic_Turkic
9.66


5
Caucasian
9.25


6
East_European
8.47


7
Volga_Uralic
2.79


8
Uralic_Permic
2.31


9
Paleo_North_European
1.95


10
Paleo_Balkanic
1.09


11
South_Central_Asian
0.76

joechill01
30-09-13, 09:24
This is from the GED's EU test



SOUTH_BALTIC

6.15%


EAST_EURO
6.00%


NORTH-CENTRAL_EURO
16.72%


ATLANTIC
25.72%


WEST_MED
17.49%


EAST_MED
10.45%


WEST_ASIAN
2.34%


MIDDLE_EASTERN
4.20%


SOUTH_ASIAN
1.04%


EAST_AFRICAN
1.49%


EAST_ASIAN
2.57%


SIBERIAN
5.23%


WEST_AFRICAN
0.57%

joechill01
30-09-13, 09:26
GED Eurogenes K9b



Southwest_Asian
3.16%


Native_American
10.55%


Northeast_Asian
0.40%


Mediterranean
26.24%


North_European
53.90%


Southeast_Asian
2.62%


Oceanian
0.88%


South_African
0.54%


Sub-Saharan_African
1.70%

joechill01
30-09-13, 17:47
Anatolian Farmer

6.92%


Baltic Hunter Gatherer
32.09%


Middle Eastern Herder
6.76%


East Asian Farmer
0.21%


South American Hunter Gatherer
9.52%


South Asian Hunter Gatherer
-


North Eurasian Hunter Gatherer
1.34%


East African Pastoralist
2.34%


Oceanian Hunter Gatherer
0.48%


Mediterranean Farmer
40.04%


Pygmy Hunter Gatherer
0.30%



Bantu Farmer

joechill01
30-09-13, 17:52
There any reason why my highest results flip back and forth between Atlantic/Western European and Mediterranean?

joechill01
09-10-13, 17:31
Nobody is able to help me?

joechill01
11-10-13, 06:39
Still no response? Hey is anybody here?

Sile
11-10-13, 08:34
Still no response? Hey is anybody here?

read post #60...mike knows his R1b

joechill01
27-10-13, 11:02
Amerindian
9.54%


Arabian
-


Armenian
-


Basque
5.10%


Central_African
-


Central_Euro
3.53%


East_African
-


East_Asian
-


East_Balkan
2.06%


East_Central_Asian
0.12%


East_Central_Euro
0.63%


East_Med
-


Eastern_Euro
0.63%


Fennoscandian
1.20%


French
5.44%


Iberian
26.23%


Indo-Chinese
-


Italian
13.77%


Malayan
0.30%


Near_Eastern
4.67%


North_African
2.82%


North_Atlantic
6.89%


North_Caucasian
-


North_Sea
7.66%


Northeast_African
1.29%


Oceanian
0.33%


Omotic
-


Pygmy
0.12%


Siberian
0.57%


South_Asian
-


South_Central_Asian
-


South_Chinese
0.15%


Volga-Ural
0.75%


West_African
0.09%


West_Caucasian
0.77%


West_Med
5.33%





http://ww2.gedmatch.com:8006/autosomal/gifs/M224757_C58316.gif

Kardu
27-10-13, 12:31
Very similar to my Spanish (known genealogy till 18th century) friend's results except Amerindian component.

joechill01
27-10-13, 19:02
Very similar to my Spanish (known genealogy till 18th century) friend's results except Amerindian component.

What did your friend get? Yeah the Amerindian component is due to me being Mexican. I have strong ties to Spain from all parts of my family, my maternal grandparents' family were said to come only a few generations ago from the same town of Santander and only left due to the civil war. My maternal grandmother claims to be connected to Hernan Cortez through the Monroy line. Don't know much about my father's side other then great-grandfather being Mexican doctor who married a German woman (maybe Jewish). Either way it has been said that in both sides of the family mixed with the locals, can't say for sure what tribes but I wouldn't doubt its from a pueblo or mezo-american flavor.

Do you know any reason why my results would flip between Western European and Mediterranean Kardu? The Italian component common in many Spaniards? If it is common is it due because of a Italo-Celtic lineage or was it introduced by Roman conquest? Due to my R1b typing I would think it was the former yet again it could be both reasons. I was surprised that I was classified more Mediterranean then Celto-Germanic given that my father's side are nothing but red haired.

Kardu
27-10-13, 20:58
Here are her results. Her paternal side comes from Aragon and maternal - Andaluzia. I am not sure about the Western European and Mediterranean component issue, sorry :) And yes, Italian component shows up in other Spanish results as well.



Amerindian
-


Arabian
2.86%


Armenian
-


Basque
9.78%


Central_African
-


Central_Euro
1.85%


East_African
-


East_Asian
-


East_Balkan
1.25%


East_Central_Asian
-


East_Central_Euro
3.71%


East_Med
2.73%


Eastern_Euro
-


Fennoscandian
3.46%


French
2.76%


Iberian
29.95%


Indo-Chinese
-


Italian
14.61%


Malayan
-


Near_Eastern
-


North_African
3.64%


North_Atlantic
10.07%


North_Caucasian
-


North_Sea
6.91%


Northeast_African
0.14%


Oceanian
-


Omotic
-


Pygmy
-


Siberian
-


South_Asian
-


South_Central_Asian
-


South_Chinese
-


Volga-Ural
0.29%


West_African
-


West_Caucasian
1.44%


West_Med
4.54%

joechill01
27-10-13, 23:26
Thanks for the results Kardu. Its every interesting that her North Atlantic is higher then the North Sea component while in mine the two are flip

joechill01
04-11-13, 04:21
Thanks for the results Kardu. Its every interesting that her North Atlantic is higher then the North Sea component while in mine the two are flip

Is there a reason for this? Like what would be a good interpretation of the data be?

joechill01
12-11-13, 02:52
Amerindian
9.54%


Arabian
-


Armenian
-


Basque
5.10%


Central_African
-


Central_Euro
3.53%


East_African
-


East_Asian
-


East_Balkan
2.06%


East_Central_Asian
0.12%


East_Central_Euro
0.63%


East_Med
-


Eastern_Euro
0.63%


Fennoscandian
1.20%


French
5.44%


Iberian
26.23%


Indo-Chinese
-


Italian
13.77%


Malayan
0.30%


Near_Eastern
4.67%


North_African
2.82%


North_Atlantic
6.89%


North_Caucasian
-


North_Sea
7.66%


Northeast_African
1.29%


Oceanian
0.33%


Omotic
-


Pygmy
0.12%


Siberian
0.57%


South_Asian
-


South_Central_Asian
-


South_Chinese
0.15%


Volga-Ural
0.75%


West_African
0.09%


West_Caucasian
0.77%


West_Med
5.33%




http://ww2.gedmatch.com:8006/autosomal/gifs/M224757_C58316.gif




So what does it mean to have a higher or lower % of a particular country? Is the Iberian highest because four of my grandparents were Spanish or is it the most recent mutation? If it is the latter then is it possible to backtrack where my linage migrated from? The second highest is Italian so does it mean my haplogroup came to Spain from Italy and so on down the chart?

adamo
12-11-13, 03:23
Because R1b-P312* is most frequent on the Iberian peninsula and parts of France; it's who your most similar to in your genetic composition.

adamo
12-11-13, 03:24
It seems that the R1b-P312* and mtdna U5 together makes a more Spanish genetic composition.

joechill01
14-11-13, 05:40
Results from using the GED's MDLP K=11 Oracle



1
Mediterranean
24.53


2
Celto_Germanic
21.91


3
Iberian
17.27


4
Altaic_Turkic
9.66


5
Caucasian
9.25


6
East_European
8.47


7
Volga_Uralic
2.79


8
Uralic_Permic
2.31


9
Paleo_North_European
1.95


10
Paleo_Balkanic
1.09


11
South_Central_Asian
0.76




Thanks for the help Adamo. So even with my R1b typing and my Spanish heritage, I have a closer genetic connection with Mediterranean people? This doesn't mean that I am Mediterranean but that my haplogroup is common among them, correct? So can this be explained by perhaps my ancestry originating from northern Italy where the R1b Celts dwell, which *I think* explains why I keep getting high Italian % because of P312 coming from an Italo-Celtic background. On the other hand Celts and Mediterranean people lived close together in Spain so can that be an answer as well?

adamo
15-11-13, 00:05
No. You have a very Celtic/west European genetic profile; your P312* is indicative of CELTIC lineages found in Spanish, Portuguese and many French men (the y-DNA anyways). Look at maps of R1b S116*/P312*. Overall, any P-312 lineages are most frequent across Spain,Portugal,Ireland,France,Switzerland,northern Italy, few parts of England,Wales and Scotland that are NOT Germanic (they are Italo-Celtic)

adamo
15-11-13, 00:06
Your U5 has been found in ancient sites across Spain/France as well I believe but is today according to modern frequency distributions considered more of a scandinanavian mtdna

adamo
15-11-13, 00:11
You are a "Mediterranean?" ; no. You are west European. You are certainly within R-M269 at it's more advanced stages such as R-S21, R-S28, R-L21 etc; you share a genetic group with most Irish, English, welsh, Scottish, Belgian, Dutch, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Swiss and many Germans and Italians as well. It is a very European genetic marker; as is your U5. Just that P-312 reaches a percentage climax (only in its most basal form) on the Iberian peninsula (Spain,Portugal) (80-90% of their R1b is P-312*) and in about 40-45% of French R1b samples. Your mtdna is very European as well; although having a more Scandinav distribution in terms of FREQUENCY.

adamo
15-11-13, 00:15
When you are Y-DNA R1b and mind H or I1a and U5; depending on what subclades you belong to, you can assume that's about as European a genetic composition as you can get (depending on what your other haplogroup lineages are).

adamo
15-11-13, 00:16
Your two main lineages give you a "good idea" of who you are but there are many other lineages (mother's paternal for example, or father's maternal mtdna) which you do not know and which most people will never know their entire sequence. But according to what I see from your results; it is deffinetly a full European genome in what concerns your two main lineages.

joechill01
26-11-13, 01:12
Sorry for the late post but thank you for all your help Adamo, I appreciate your posts and thank you for clearing thinks up for me. Since Christmas is coming up I think I will do the Population Finder % test on familyDNA and see what it'll match me with. Like to see what northern area of Spain my father's linage came from.

cody gearhart
19-06-14, 21:01
Hey sorry to revive a old thread but on my Haplogroup i have R-U106 and R-U198 so what would that make me?
Thanks for any answers!

Max Evans
24-01-16, 15:46
Hi

we share four segment dna on 23andme so we are Third to Fourth degree cousin. I would like to talk with you in private mail.
If someone got his mail thanks a lot.

RobertColumbia
25-01-16, 22:06
Hi

we share four segment dna on 23andme so we are Third to Fourth degree cousin. I would like to talk with you in private mail.
If someone got his mail thanks a lot.

I'm afraid we can't help you with that here. We're not mind readers and have no hope of finding people like that unless you provide more information such as a name, username, address, or other piece of identifying information. If you found someone on 23andMe that you think is a match, you should send them a private mail directly or contact 23andMe for help contacting the person.

You did post your message in the "Help in defining my R1b haplogroup" thread, and we can help you in that respect. Your profile lists your y-haplogroup as R1b1b2a1a, which is R-U106 in the ISOGG-2016 standard nomenclature. R-U106 is associated with a Germanic background. Your direct paternal ancestors may have been Germans, Franks, Anglo-Saxons, Burgundians, Goths, Frisians, or Vikings.

joechill01
26-07-16, 19:34
I uploaded my 23andme data to FTDNA and I got my Myorigin results back. The following is both my y and mt results.

European: 87%
Southern Europe: 48%
Western and Central Europe: 39%

New World: 7%
Native American: 7%

East Asian: 3%
Northeast Asia: 3%

Middle Eastern: 2%
North Africa: 2%

African: 1%
West Africa: 1%

So what can you all tell me about the results that I got? Is it the average Iberian makeup? Is there a feature on MyOrigin that can separate my y and mt so I can see where each originated? Is there a feature that can show me which countries of Western and Central Europe and Southern Europe I have higher percentage in?

For me, the results show for certain that my phenotype is probably Atlanto-Mediterranid due my high percentages in both South and Western Europe. Also I look uncanny similar to the composite face of a Atlanto-Mediterranid (https://uploadir.com/u/hjv0y8jj). The areas that Atlanto-Mediterranids cover also matches what GEDMatch always places me as; Spaniard, Portuguese and sometimes Northern Italian. My families history on both sides point to Spain with my maternal side claiming some Portuguese cousins. My father and his side of the family are red haired and I always thought of him as Atlantic Celt and 23andme does give me a some percentage British/Irish yet FTDNA doesn't. My question is am I Atlanto-Mediterranid because both my parents are or is my father Atlantid and my mother Mediterranid?

I believe I mentioned this before but again, I took a Ancestral Origin test and was given a map. It mentions how my population matches more Southern European followed by Northern European. As for my Native Region, it gives me as Northern European. So my question is, which migration of ancient Northern Europeans to Iberia does my personal information match to? With my ydna being R1b, I think the Celts. Both my y and mt show a direct lines in the UK and Northern Italy. My y dna shows two in Spain and my mt dan shows one in Germany, Hungary and Sardinia. I know continental Celts came to Spain and than the British Islands but was there ever an invasion/migration from Britain to Spain in ancient times? I also feel with the high percentage in Italy that perhaps my continental Celt ancestors came from Northern Italy, through Southern France and settled in Spain. I been mistaken for French and Italian and Argentinian before.

I would like to post my 23andme results again on the next post but which one is more useful? Speculative, Standard or Conservative? I plan to upgrade my SNPs in the future and narrow down my haplogroup. I was thinking of getting the y37 and either P312 SNP pack or M343 pack, I really don't know the difference between them other than the price. I'm a P312 and here's the tests I taken so far; L1-, L144-, L159-, L165-, L176-, L193-, L196-, L2-, L21-, L4-, M126-, M153-, M160-, M269+, M65-, P312+, U106-, U152-. Any recommendations on which tests to get are welcomed.

Sorry for the long post and thank you all for all the help you have given me in the past.

RobertColumbia
26-07-16, 21:44
...With my ydna being R1b, I think the Celts. Both my y and mt show a direct lines in the UK and Northern Italy. My y dna shows two in Spain and my mt dan shows one in Germany, Hungary and Sardinia. I know continental Celts came to Spain and than the British Islands but was there ever an invasion/migration from Britain to Spain in ancient times?...

Your y-DNA is R-P312*, which means that you do not belong to any of the primary downstream mutations of R-P312, including DF27, L21, or U152. This makes it a little harder to match your line. Your ancestor certainly could have been a Celt, but a Roman or a Visigoth would also be plausible.

There may not have been any major movements from Britain to Spain but there was certainly migration. The Roman legions of course provided ample opportunity for a man to "see the world" as they say.

joechill01
26-07-16, 23:08
Your y-DNA is R-P312*, which means that you do not belong to any of the primary downstream mutations of R-P312, including DF27, L21, or U152. This makes it a little harder to match your line. Your ancestor certainly could have been a Celt, but a Roman or a Visigoth would also be plausible.

There may not have been any major movements from Britain to Spain but there was certainly migration. The Roman legions of course provided ample opportunity for a man to "see the world" as they say.

Thanks for responding back! I took the FTDNA back in 2012 and at the the time there was no exams for DF27 being done. Now I test available for DF27, DF99, L238, DF19, L194, Z29645, Z30600 and A9063. I know phenotypes and haplogroups are separate things but are there any SNPs considered Atlantid, Atlanto-Mediterranid, Alpinid or Keltid?

Any reason why you suggested Celts, Romans or Visigoths as possible ancestors? I think they are all good options due to their history and impact on Spain. My only question is wouldn't the Visigoth be under the U106 branch due to them being Germanic? Roman seems like a good option but wouldn't they fall under U152, at least the Northern R1b Italians? Is U152 associated with Roman or Cisalpine Gaul people? If indeed I have North Italian history then why did I test negative for the North Italian U152 marker? Were they not part of the Alp cluster and instead lived among the Northern Coasts of Italy and made there way to Spain by boat?

I read on the FTDNA forums that P312+, U106-, U152- are more likely DF99, DF19 or L238. All I know is that all three have been found in Britain in a small number. Does anyone have more information?

RobertColumbia
26-07-16, 23:24
Thanks for responding back! I took the FTDNA back in 2012 and at the the time there was no exams for DF27 being done. Now I test available for DF27, DF99, L238, DF19, L194, Z29645, Z30600 and A9063. I know phenotypes and haplogroups are separate things but are there any SNPs considered Atlantid, Atlanto-Mediterranid, Alpinid or Keltid?

Any reason why you suggested Celts, Romans or Visigoths as possible ancestors? I think they are all good options due to their history and impact on Spain. My only question is wouldn't the Visigoth be under the U106 branch due to them being Germanic? Roman seems like a good option but wouldn't they fall under U152, at least the Northern R1b Italians? Is U152 associated with Roman or Cisalpine Gaul people? If indeed I have North Italian history then why did I test negative for the North Italian U152 marker? Were they not part of the Alp cluster and instead lived among the Northern Coasts of Italy and made there way to Spain by boat?

I read on the FTDNA forums that P312+, U106-, U152- are more likely DF99, DF19 or L238. All I know is that all three have been found in Britain in a small number. Does anyone have more information?

You're very welcome!

I mentioned Celts, Romans, and Visigoths because they were groups that had a major impact on Spain and also carried significant amounts of R1b. As for Visigoths being under U106, you are right that U106 was probably a more common subtype among the Visigoths, but that doesn't mean that they didn't have anything else. This is one of the challenges of having a less common lineage - it becomes more likely that your lineage was a "tag along" lineage that became ethnically associated with a more successful cousin.

Basques are also possible, of course. They have a very high occurrence of R1b, but it is also mostly DF27 as you probably know.

As for SNP's, U106 tends to be Germanic, of course, while L21 is more Celtic (and also includes my downstream M222), and U152 is more Roman, Alpine, and Gaulish. This doesn't mean that those populations were 100% composed of members of that SNP - that is virtually impossible to maintain for any length of time!

If you do something like Big Y, you might be able to find close matches and see where they are from.

What else do you know about the origins of your paternal line? Do you have a last name? Do you know what region or city they were from?

joechill01
27-07-16, 17:16
You're very welcome!

I mentioned Celts, Romans, and Visigoths because they were groups that had a major impact on Spain and also carried significant amounts of R1b. As for Visigoths being under U106, you are right that U106 was probably a more common subtype among the Visigoths, but that doesn't mean that they didn't have anything else. This is one of the challenges of having a less common lineage - it becomes more likely that your lineage was a "tag along" lineage that became ethnically associated with a more successful cousin.

Basques are also possible, of course. They have a very high occurrence of R1b, but it is also mostly DF27 as you probably know.

As for SNP's, U106 tends to be Germanic, of course, while L21 is more Celtic (and also includes my downstream M222), and U152 is more Roman, Alpine, and Gaulish. This doesn't mean that those populations were 100% composed of members of that SNP - that is virtually impossible to maintain for any length of time!

If you do something like Big Y, you might be able to find close matches and see where they are from.

What else do you know about the origins of your paternal line? Do you have a last name? Do you know what region or city they were from?

Thanks again for responding. I'm thinking of getting the y37 and either P312 SNP pack or M343 pack from FTDNA done sometime in the future. I'll be sure to start researching my family history.

joechill01
03-08-16, 21:09
Here's my 23andme speculative ancestry composition:

European: 87%
Broadly European: 6.6%

Iberian: 49.2%
Italian: 0.7%
Broadly Southern European: 19.0%

British and Irish: 2.7%
Scandinavian: 1.6%
French and German: <0.1%
Ashkenazi: 2.2%
Broadly North Western European: 5.2%

East Asian and Native American: 10.0%
Native American: 7.6%
Broadly East Asian: 0.1%
Broadly East Asian and Native American: 2.3%

Sub-Saharan African: 0.3%
West Africa: 0.1%
Broadly Sub-Saharan: 0.2%

Middle Eastern and Northern African: 0.3%
North African: 0.2%
Broadly Middle Eastern and Northern African: 0.1%

Unassigned: 2.2%

So how accurate is 23andme's speculative ancestry composition? It is very similar to FTDNA's MyOrigin composition

Max Evans
14-08-16, 18:08
hi I would like to know more about my SNP :
s3
CTS3575
PF6404
YSC0000225
L407
PF6432
YSC0000203
PF6438
L265
PF6507
s10
PF6443
L478
PF6495
CTS12478
PF6430
YSC0000194
PF6425
PF6500
L483
L482
PF6434 L500
CTS8728
PF6494
YSC0000294
PF6409
CTS2664
YSC0000213
PF6411
L773
PF6509
YSC0000219
PF6265
F1794
Pease share the information you have.

joechill01
23-08-16, 19:20
hi I would like to know more about my SNP :
s3
CTS3575
PF6404
YSC0000225
L407
PF6432
YSC0000203
PF6438
L265
PF6507
s10
PF6443
L478
PF6495
CTS12478
PF6430
YSC0000194
PF6425
PF6500
L483
L482
PF6434 L500
CTS8728
PF6494
YSC0000294
PF6409
CTS2664
YSC0000213
PF6411
L773
PF6509
YSC0000219
PF6265
F1794
Pease share the information you have.

Hello cousin!

What is it that you want to know? I'll be happy to post SNPs from either 23andme or FTDNA, just let me know how.

joechill01
29-11-16, 23:16
Been thinking of getting the P312 SNP pack from FTDNA. I was told the difference between SNP vs STR is SNP is for geography while STR is for ancestors. This let me to consider getting an STR test as well, but what is the difference between Y-37 and Y-67?

joechill01
08-01-17, 23:34
Well I got the P312 SNP pack and Y-67 STR test. My results came today from FTDNA...

My new haplogroup is R-FGC20747. The FTDNA Ancestral Origins feature found no matches for 25, 37 or 67 markers. The 12 marker find 1 match in Peru and 2 in the United Kingdom.

Can anyone tell me more about this haplogroup? Where it originated and with what group of people they are associated with?

I also started a new thread about R-FGC20747, check out....http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/33384-R-fgc20747