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JFWR
07-08-12, 03:49
I am currently watching the Olympics right now, and I came to wondering:

What if a scientific study was done on how fast these Olympic dashers could go in a vacuum in a wind tunnel?
That is, give men such as Usain Bolt, Tyson Gay, et cetera, a lightweight breathing apparatus and have them run the 100m dash in vacuum conditions.

How much faster do you think they could run? The current world record is 9.49 seconds. I think they could get as low at 7 seconds in a vacuum, "easily". Maybe even as low as 6.5. The human body is not especially aerodynamic and runners have to face a lot of wind resistance in order to reach the speeds they do. I do not think it is at all unreasonable that they could zip ahead far quicker without that.

Has anything like this been done in science?

LeBrok
07-08-12, 07:16
Just send them to the moon to run, lol.

Comparing vacuum and wind tunnel is some sort of oxymoron? Wind denotes air, right?

Two other points. At the speed they run the wind pressure/drag is not much of concern to cut timing by 2seconds for 100 m distance, which is at least 20%. They are not F1 cars. Second concern is that in vacuum our bodies will expend and not work correctly, plus add the weight of breathing apparatus if not a complete space suite. Actually there is a third one, one unit of atmospheric pressure in your lungs with vacuum around would easily damage your lungs from expansion. You would probably need to use only pure oxygen in low pressure...geez, where are we going with this? lol
Lets stick to our original environment, where we evolved for millions of years.

JFWR
07-08-12, 08:49
Just send them to the moon to run, lol.

Comparing vacuum and wind tunnel is some sort of oxymoron? Wind denotes air, right?

No, I meant that is the kind of facility that is likely to have some capacity to test wind resistance at all levels. I am not suggesting that they'd use the tunnel for wind resistance in this case, but for the opposite purpose of zero wind resistance.

This is not a matter of gravity, either. Normal Earth gravity, but zero wind resistance. Wind resistance is significant on the human body in motion. Compare the shape of a human being running to that of a cheetah, for instance.


Two other points. At the speed they run the wind pressure/drag is not much of concern to cut timing by 2seconds for 100 m distance, which is at least 20%. They are not F1 cars. Second concern is that in vacuum our bodies will expend and not work correctly, plus add the weight of breathing apparatus if not a complete space suite. Actually there is a third one, one unit of atmospheric pressure in your lungs with vacuum around would easily damage your lungs from expansion. You would probably need to use only pure oxygen in low pressure...geez, where are we going with this? lol
Lets stick to our original environment, where we evolved for millions of years.

Runners have been shown to significantly improve speeds via aerodynamic clothing and even the drafting effect (running in the wake of other runners).

It wouldn't need a space suit. The temperature would be within tolerable limits and the vacuum would not likely cause such ill effects if they did not loiter in the area of low-pressure too significantly. If a pure vacuum would be too much strain, they could simply reduce the atmospheric pressure gradually to determine at what point significant lack of wind resistance would contribute to marked speed increases.

I am not suggesting 3 hour oxygen tanks, either. I am speaking of say...a 10 minute oxygen tank for maximal lightness. They respirate haevily, so they probably will deplete most of that air supply.

LeBrok
07-08-12, 11:31
No, I meant that is the kind of facility that is likely to have some capacity to test wind resistance at all levels. I am not suggesting that they'd use the tunnel for wind resistance in this case, but for the opposite purpose of zero wind resistance.
Wind tunnel is not a vacuum chamber.



It wouldn't need a space suit. The temperature would be within tolerable limits and the vacuum would not likely cause such ill effects if they did not loiter in the area of low-pressure too significantly. If a pure vacuum would be too much strain, they could simply reduce the atmospheric pressure gradually to determine at what point significant lack of wind resistance would contribute to marked speed increases.
It's already determined, check the web, without putting unlucky competitor in a vacuum chamber. Temperature is your least worry in vacuum, the biggest enemy is your internal pressure trying to make a balloon out of you. I'm not saying that people won't survive vacuum for some time, but it would be a hell of a run in these conditions, not mentioning running with breathing apparatus and it's extra weight.


I am not suggesting 3 hour oxygen tanks, either. I am speaking of say...a 10 minute oxygen tank for maximal lightness. They respirate haevily, so they probably will deplete most of that air supply.

I would prefer watching weight lifting or trampoline event on the Moon. At least once, even in space suits, just for fun, lol.

hope
07-08-12, 12:22
[QUOTE=LeBrok;397765



I would prefer watching weight lifting or trampoline event on the Moon. At least once, even in space suits, just for fun, lol.[/QUOTE]

You could probably lift about six times the weight on the moon as on earth. Don`t know about trampolining though ! lol

JFWR
07-08-12, 16:11
Wind tunnel is not a vacuum chamber.

Okay. Then do not use wind tunnel apparatus, but construct a 100 m long vacuum chamber.


It's already determined, check the web, without putting unlucky competitor in a vacuum chamber. Temperature is your least worry in vacuum, the biggest enemy is your internal pressure trying to make a balloon out of you. I'm not saying that people won't survive vacuum for some time, but it would be a hell of a run in these conditions, not mentioning running with breathing apparatus and it's extra weight.

A small breathing apparatus would probably not exceed a few pounds or kilograms. This could even be remedied by tethering it to a rail.

I think you're overestimating the rate of the vacuum. The pressures exerted in those conditions are not generally as severe as you suggest. The ballooning does become an issue, but it is not to the degree that people are, say, bursting (ala the original "Total Recall").


I would prefer watching weight lifting or trampoline event on the Moon. At least once, even in space suits, just for fun, lol.

They did golfing.