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Maciamo
17-12-12, 22:48
Here is the tree of the known subclades of haplogroup G2a. I expect that many new subclades should be identified soon. FTDNA already list these hypothetical subclades based on their STR values. However STR haplotypes do not always match SNP's so I prefer not to list them just yet.

http://www.eupedia.com/images/content/G2a-tree.gif

LeBrok
17-12-12, 22:52
It looks like these guys went around Europe few times.

MOESAN
18-12-12, 16:00
I was wondering if the Alani tribes had had a big role in the spreading of Y-G2a in Europe - without knowledge about every SNP detailed distribution in every place, I can't conclude anything; we could imagine it was rather the N-Caucasus-Eastern Europe SNPs that were among them (I don't forget that as a whole Y-R1a was surely more dense among Alani than Y-G2a was, picked up by them only after reaching the Caucasus mountains) - the iberian SNPs would be of great interest in this research; I should say I 'm no more believing in a great impact of Y-G2a of Alani's origin in Western Europe, for now...

Maciamo
18-12-12, 18:59
I was wondering if the Alani tribes had had a big role in the spreading of Y-G2a in Europe - without knowledge about every SNP detailed distribution in every place, I can't conclude anything; we could imagine it was rather the N-Caucasus-Eastern Europe SNPs that were among them (I don't forget that as a whole Y-R1a was surely more dense among Alani than Y-G2a was, picked up by them only after reaching the Caucasus mountains) - the iberian SNPs would be of great interest in this research; I should say I 'm no more believing in a great impact of Y-G2a of Alani's origin in Western Europe, for now...

Like with most ethnic groups, the Alani surely belonged to several haplogroups. Their Central Asian origins would allude to an chiefly R1a connection, but since they did create the kingdom of Alania is the North Caucasus, and that the North Ossetians (who have a lot of G2a1a) claim to descend from them, it would be a fair assumption that some G2a1a in Europe travelled with the Alani invaders.

Kardu
18-12-12, 23:55
Ossetian G2a1a seems to be a result of a relatively recent bottleneck (+genetic drift?)
On the pic you can see Ossetians clustered together on younger branches (Surnames: Shotae, Abaev etc.).
Georgians from different regions are marked by numbers (since we can't reveal their surnames and haplotypes till January). There are some Georgians with surnames shown as well.
http://s5.postimage.org/i1iynrej7/g2a1_tree_2.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/i1iynrej7/)

Maciamo
19-12-12, 11:40
Since the Alanic kingdom lasted for a few centuries before the Alans migrated to Central and Western Europe, I would expect that the bulk of their men were actually of North Caucasian stock. Only a minority (among the elite mostly) would have belonged to the original Central Asian lineages (presumably R1a, and I would say of the Z93 branch (http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_R1a_Y-DNA.shtml#subclades)).

If genetic traces of the Alanic invasions are to be found in modern Western Europe I would look for areas that have both G2a1a and R1a-Z93. Neither subclade is supposed to be found in Western Europe, and only a small Alanic contingent who settled there 1500 years ago would explain them.

Checking the FTDNA G project for matches in Central and Western Europe, I found G2a1a people in Hungary, Italy, England and Spain. There are notably G2a1a1a3 with close matches in North Ossetia in Spain (surname Merino), Italy (Jacoe, Meli, Spatafore) and England (Moody, Price and Wright), and a similar cluster of G2a1a2 also in Spain (Gonzalez, Villarreal, Nanez), Italy (Filippelli) and England (Reid, Litton).


The Spanish matches are from Castile and Andalusia, where the Alans passed.
Three of the Italian members have roots in Calabria, and the fourth in Sicily, which corresponds to the last known 5th-century Alanic settlements, after leaving Tunisia.
The Alans never went to England, but they settled in what would become Normandy, so it's only natural that some ended up in England. France is notoriously undersampled, but I expect to find even more matches there, especially in the Seine and RhĂ´ne valleys.


In the R1a project I only found isolated R1a-Z93 members in northern Italy, Germany (3x), the Netherlands, England and Scotland. But also interestingly in Tunisia, the Alani's last major settlements before they dispersed around Italy. Otherwise there are quite a few R1a-Z93 in Poland and Hungary, but they belong to deeper subclades with matches in Kazakhstan, and are probably descended from later Scythian migrations.

polako
09-08-13, 10:20
Otherwise there are quite a few R1a-Z93 in Poland and Hungary, but they belong to deeper subclades with matches in Kazakhstan, and are probably descended from later Scythian migrations.

What data is this statement based on?

Zedon
21-02-14, 08:30
just got my 23andme results and it says I am G2a4 but I don't see that on here, how does sit fit in?

Alan
21-02-14, 09:49
just got my 23andme results and it says I am G2a4 but I don't see that on here, how does sit fit in?


Wasn't Ă–tzi G2a4? If you are European your yDNA is Neolithic.

Sile
21-02-14, 11:32
Wasn't Ă–tzi G2a4? If you are European your yDNA is Neolithic.

he was G2a2a2 ( G-L91 )....................IIRC it was earlier known as G2a4

Alan
21-02-14, 17:09
he was G2a2a2 ( G-L91 )....................IIRC it was earlier known as G2a4


So maybe Zedon also means G2a2a2.

Angela
21-02-14, 18:07
just got my 23andme results and it says I am G2a4 but I don't see that on here, how does sit fit in?

You're in a very rare group...do you mind revealing your paternal history...the origin, so far as you know, of your paternal line?

JS Bach
21-02-14, 18:28
just got my 23andme results and it says I am G2a4 but I don't see that on here, how does sit fit in?

You're also in a very interesting mtdna group, C1b -- thought to only be found in Native Americans (at least by many people) -- do you mind revealing your maternal history as well? (where the oldest known ancestor on your direct female line was from)

Zedon
21-02-14, 18:40
You're also in a very interesting mtdna group, C1b -- thought to only be found in Native Americans (at least by many people) -- do you mind revealing your maternal history as well? (where the oldest known ancestor on your direct female line was from)


Paternal - my grandfather on my father's side was from Germany, we believe close to Luxembourg.

Maternal - Grandmother on my mothers side was from Chile, as the story goes, likely spanish, basque and possibly french mixed in there. May have picked up Native American blood in chile, not sure how many generations they were in Chile. According to the Ancestry composition I am potentially 11.8% native american.

JS Bach
21-02-14, 19:18
Thanks for the reply. I think your C1b is probably Native American. However, on Family Tree DNA's mtdna C project page they have a C1b individual listing their direct female line ancestor as being from Pais Vasco, Spain: http://www.familytreedna.com/public/C_Haplogroup_mtDNA/default.aspx?section=mtmap But it might have been Native American going back further than that for all I know. There's also been some speculation that the C1e branch that's found primarily in Iceland might be distantly related to the C1b branch, but I think more samples need to be analyzed to test that. The G2a4 is really interesting, since the 5,300-year-old Otzi the Iceman belonged to it. He was found near the border of Italy and Austria. I belong to mtdna K1, which he also belonged to.

Sile
21-02-14, 19:32
Thanks for the reply. I think your C1b is probably Native American. However, on Family Tree DNA's mtdna C project page they have a C1b individual listing their direct female line ancestor as being from Pais Vasco, Spain: http://www.familytreedna.com/public/C_Haplogroup_mtDNA/default.aspx?section=mtmap But it might have been Native American going back further than that for all I know. There's also been some speculation that the C1e branch that's found primarily in Iceland might be distantly related to the C1b branch, but I think more samples need to be analyzed to test that. The G2a4 is really interesting, since the 5,300-year-old Otzi the Iceman belonged to it. He was found near the border of Italy and Austria. I belong to mtdna K1, which he also belonged to.

The austrian paper from late 2013 on the tyrol area and only on G ydna marker found less than 4% of the otzi G-L91 marker

Zedon
22-02-14, 00:22
Thanks for the reply. I think your C1b is probably Native American. However, on Family Tree DNA's mtdna C project page they have a C1b individual listing their direct female line ancestor as being from Pais Vasco, Spain: But it might have been Native American going back further than that for all I know. There's also been some speculation that the C1e branch that's found primarily in Iceland might be distantly related to the C1b branch, but I think more samples need to be analyzed to test that. The G2a4 is really interesting, since the 5,300-year-old Otzi the Iceman belonged to it. He was found near the border of Italy and Austria. I belong to mtdna K1, which he also belonged to.

C1b from spain would also make sense. I know my grandmother had spanish(she was pretty light) but not certain if she had the native american in her. The native american could be separate from C1b and could come from my grandfather on my mother's side who was supposedly part yaki indian. I think they were on the border of Arizona and Mexico.

Interesting that otzi may be a distant cousin. I remember him in the news and on the science channel.

martiko
22-02-14, 01:22
just got my 23andme results and it says I am G2a4 but I don't see that on here, how does sit fit in?

Oh! the grand-son of ötzi.
Your grandfather returned from winter sports, so!

.....The DYF395s1=15,17 subgroup can be much more reliably dated to a common male ancestor who lived within the last 500 years. The DYS425=null subgroupis considerably older, probably in excess of 4000 yrs. And the DYS607 greaterthan 15 men probably share their common ancestor at 2000 to 3000 yrs ago. In each case, this is the most recent common ancestor. There may have been other, older ancestors who shared the same mutations, extending the age ofthe subgroup.....

https://sites.google.com/site/haplogroupgproject/xtra-samples-g2a4

JS Bach
22-02-14, 02:18
C1b from spain would also make sense. I know my grandmother had spanish(she was pretty light) but not certain if she had the native american in her. The native american could be separate from C1b and could come from my grandfather on my mother's side who was supposedly part yaki indian. I think they were on the border of Arizona and Mexico.
Interesting that otzi may be a distant cousin. I remember him in the news and on the science channel.
It will be interesting to see if more Spanish (or European) people turn up as C1b. Some of us forum members recently discussed the possibility of C1b coming to America from Spain across the edge of the North Atlantic ice sheet during the last glacial maximum, about 18,000 years ago, on the Solutrean hypothesis thread here: http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/28321-Solutrean-hypothesis-Native-American-Clovis-Culture-amp-NW-Europe-%28ydna-Q-mtdna-X2%29
(http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/28321-Solutrean-hypothesis-Native-American-Clovis-Culture-amp-NW-Europe-%28ydna-Q-mtdna-X2%29)Mtdna C seems to be one of the most widespread mtdna haplogroups across Eurasia and the Americas.