E1b1b1a1b (V-13): Balkan or Middle Eastern?

PaschalisB

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Location
Athens
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Greek
Y-DNA haplogroup
E-CTS9320
mtDNA haplogroup
U5a1b
The origin of E1b1b1a is for sure african according to almost all sources. As regards V-13 the most prevalent theory is that it arrived to the balkans (where it is mostly found today) from the middle-east. There are some theories though that claim that the particular haplogroup arose in the balkans. Is there any evidence that could support this theory?
 
As Of 2007, The General Consensus IS That This E1b1b1a Arose In North-east Africa Around 18000 Years Ago, Possibly Libya Or Sudan, But Most Likely It Was In Egypt. It Then Migrated Into The Middle East Shortly After, And Possibly Into Europe Not Long After That, Some Think At The End Of The LGM. So It Is Possible That This Subclade Formed In The Balkans, Other Evidence For AN Ancient European Origin For E1b1b1a1b Is That 7000 Year Old Remains In Nothern Spain Tested For This Subclade.
 
Likely to have originated in Balkans, at our days it's very low outside of Europe.
 
Until today no E-V13 has been Found In Blakans older than any other HG
and only 1 in Europe in Spain. No More

the nearest older is founded in Konya Turkey estimated about 2000 BC same Time Dienekes mentions as Entrance In Balkans,
that Time also fits with Arcado-Cypriot population entrance In Greece, but yet no Greece no elsewere in Balkans has been found,
so it could be even later.

the rest are Theories, for nationalistic reasons,
When an E-V13 is found In Balkans then we can speak,
we even find Dogs DNA like the sub-specie Αλωπεκις an Asian-south Balkanic dog that came at 3000 BC but no human E-V13
for data ask Federation Canis International FCI which ask the genetical data to saved in Genetic Bank since that dog specie is in danger.
 
The origin of E1b1b1a is for sure african according to almost all sources. As regards V-13 the most prevalent theory is that it arrived to the balkans (where it is mostly found today) from the middle-east. There are some theories though that claim that the particular haplogroup arose in the balkans. Is there any evidence that could support this theory?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_E-V68_(Y-DNA)#E-V13_and_ancient_migrations

The parent E-M78 left Egypt 20000 yrs ago, but E-V13 is almost non-existent outside of europe. Almost all scientists agree it spread from the balkans sometime in the neolithic (see link above).
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_E-V68_%28Y-DNA%29#E-V13_and_ancient_migrations

The parent E-M78 left Egypt 20000 yrs ago, but E-V13 is almost non-existent outside of europe. Almost all scientists agree it spread from the balkans sometime in the neolithic (see link above).

So, it is a new wave of people who left Africa and ended up in Europe and reached the highest rates in Greece, Southern Italy and the Southern Balkans.

If we extrapolate this, it means that a proportion of Ancient Egyptians and a proportion of Ancient Greeks had the same ancestor. That is, in 1000 BC a proportion of the ancestors of Greeks and Egyptians were some 17.000 years apart.
 
So, it is a new wave of people who left Africa and ended up in Europe and reached the highest rates in Greece, Southern Italy and the Southern Balkans.

If we extrapolate this, it means that a proportion of Ancient Egyptians and a proportion of Ancient Greeks had the same ancestor. That is, in 1000 BC a proportion of the ancestors of Greeks and Egyptians were some 17.000 years apart.

This Is The Case With Many Groups Of People, And Civilzations, But Not All EgyptianS Belong To E As There Were Members Of T And R1b, But Youre Right, The Distance Between Us Is Very Short Regardless Of Our Appearances, And This Is Really One Of The Greatest Thing Genetics Has Shown
 
This Is The Case With Many Groups Of People, And Civilzations, But Not All EgyptianS Belong To E As There Were Members Of T And R1b, But Youre Right, The Distance Between Us Is Very Short Regardless Of Our Appearances, And This Is Really One Of The Greatest Thing Genetics Has Shown

this is a good site for E peoples

http://www.haplozone.net/e3b/project
 
This Is The Case With Many Groups Of People, And Civilzations, But Not All EgyptianS Belong To E As There Were Members Of T And R1b, But Youre Right, The Distance Between Us Is Very Short Regardless Of Our Appearances, And This Is Really One Of The Greatest Thing Genetics Has Shown

True, in that case I should also note that in those 20.000 years E-V13 had undergone natural selection. Migrating towards different habitats and different climates.
 
EV-13 together with G2a/G1 could be the truth Middle Eastern haplogroups . They migrated in Southern Europe during Early Neolithic times and in Middle East became extinct due to expansion and conquest of J2 and J1 carrying Kavkaz-like people. According to Cruciani highest diversity and oldest clades of EV-13 are found in West Asia.
 
True, in that case I should also note that in those 20.000 years E-V13 had undergone natural selection. Migrating towards different habitats and different climates.

I think on the same lines. 20.000 yrs can change a lot in terms of human evolution, considering blonde hair is roughly 11.000 years old. Autosomally, somebody from the balkans with E v-13 is the same as anyone else around him.
 
I think on the same lines. 20.000 yrs can change a lot in terms of human evolution, considering blonde hair is roughly 11.000 years old. Autosomally, somebody from the balkans with E v-13 is the same as anyone else around him.

That's true, but Balkanians have a variety of haplogroups. Not only E v-13, but also R1 haplogroups, I, and J2. These are also included in autosomal DNA. We don't know how the first arrivals of E V-13 would really look like before they mixed. Or how much they changed.
 
EV-13 together with G2a/G1 could be the truth Middle Eastern haplogroups . They migrated in Southern Europe during Early Neolithic times and in Middle East became extinct due to expansion and conquest of J2 and J1 carrying Kavkaz-like people. According to Cruciani highest diversity and oldest clades of EV-13 are found in West Asia.

Where does Cruciani say this ?

I have cruciani saying that E came from the Nile delta as well as the upper Nile ( egypt and ethiopia)
 
EV-13 together with G2a/G1 could be the truth Middle Eastern haplogroups . They migrated in Southern Europe during Early Neolithic times and in Middle East became extinct due to expansion and conquest of J2 and J1 carrying Kavkaz-like people. According to Cruciani highest diversity and oldest clades of EV-13 are found in West Asia.


Actually you are partially right. G2a is also a European group, while G1 is just Middle Eastern and to an extent Central Asian. Ev13 is ME and a European group. No need to enforce a love for my ME neighbors on me. I don't think Yetos was right trying exclude E from Europe, if that was your concern.

Speaking about the origins of hg G, the truth could have been a bit more complex. The highest diversity of G types was once known to be located in Tanzania, while in the mountain of Kilimanjaro lived a mountain Arab-like people. With a little help from aliens, the Tanzanian diverse G types were teleported some 5-10 years ago, in the region of south Caucasus (today's Armenia and Azerbaijan). And suddenly, just for the fun of it, from the Kilimanjaro mountain, Arab-like G men, much to the bewilderment of the Kavkaz-like natives, were materialized all across the Caucasus a few weeks ago.
 
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Actually you are partially right. G2a is also a European group, while G1 is just Middle Eastern and to an extent Central Asian. Ev13 is ME and a European group. No need to enforce a love for my ME neighbors to me. I don't think Yetos was right trying exclude E from Europe, if that was your concern.

Speaking about the origins of hg G, the truth could have been a bit more complex. The highest diversity of G types was once known to be located in Tanzania, while in the mountain of Kilimanjaro lived a mountain Arab-like people. With a little help from aliens, the Tanzanian diverse G types were teleported some 5-10 years ago, in the region of south Caucasus (today's Armenia and Azerbaijan). And suddenly, just for the fun of it, from the Kilimanjaro mountain, Arab-like G men, much to the bewilderment of the Kavkaz-like natives, were materialized all across the Caucasus a few weeks ago.

All the G, T and any other HGs apart from E which are in East African lands are part of the Arab slave trade and other Arab trading areas, like, Tanzania, mafia island, Kenya, Somalia, Madagascar, Zanzibar etc etc...these people arrived around the 11th century in mass. These places where basically non-african eventually.

there are even indian and chinese traders there at the same time.

The portuguese noted these traders on non-african origin when they first discovered east Africa.
 
All the G, T and any other HGs apart from E which are in East African lands are part of the Arab slave trade and other Arab trading areas, like, Tanzania, mafia island, Kenya, Somalia, Madagascar, Zanzibar etc etc...these people arrived around the 11th century in mass. These places where basically non-african eventually.

there are even indian and chinese traders there at the same time.

The portuguese noted these traders on non-african origin when they first discovered east Africa.


I was trying to be funny in the second part of the post. It looks I am not good at it anyhow.
Nice information though. I was aware of the back and forth migrations of some originally ME people with these parts of Africa.

There are actually no G in Tanzania or Kilimanjaro, and almost none in Africa apart from north Africa and some in Egypt. Apparently G-s (according to I project admin.) are not that old of a group to be spread so far in given time frame, or just preferred lush green places for farms.

So, my unsuccessful joke was trying to address, from my perspective, a logical inconsistency about G-s origins, acknowledging the fact that the highest diversity is in today's Armenia and Azerbaijan.
 
Actually you are partially right. G2a is also a European group, while G1 is just Middle Eastern and to an extent Central Asian. Ev13 is ME and a European group. No need to enforce a love for my ME neighbors to me. I don't think Yetos was right trying exclude E from Europe, if that was your concern.

Speaking about the origins of hg G, the truth could have been a bit more complex. The highest diversity of G types was once known to be located in Tanzania, while in the mountain of Kilimanjaro lived a mountain Arab-like people. With a little help from aliens, the Tanzanian diverse G types were teleported some 5-10 years ago, in the region of south Caucasus (today's Armenia and Azerbaijan). And suddenly, just for the fun of it, from the Kilimanjaro mountain, Arab-like G men, much to the bewilderment of the Kavkaz-like natives, were materialized all across the Caucasus a few weeks ago.
Laughed my ass off reading this, probably the greatest theory ever proposed on this site, spencer wells would be proud, don't worry bud I got the joke, great comment on the absurdity of some theories in genetics. Good job keeping the forum from getting to serious about itself.
 
Thanks.

The first part of the message was serious and on the subject, though.

That's what fooled my friend Zanipolo. He was in a serious mode, probably accustomed to reading many serious posts, missing a few crucial words in a hurry.
And without them it is just another theory.

Welcome to the forum.


 
I was trying to be funny in the second part of the post. It looks I am not good at it anyhow.
Nice information though. I was aware of the back and forth migrations of some originally ME people with these parts of Africa.

There are actually no G in Tanzania or Kilimanjaro, and almost none in Africa apart from north Africa and some in Egypt. Apparently G-s (according to I project admin.) are not that old of a group to be spread so far in given time frame, or just preferred lush green places for farms.

So, my unsuccessful joke was trying to address, from my perspective, a logical inconsistency about G-s origins, acknowledging the fact that the highest diversity is in today's Armenia and Azerbaijan.

lol

I thought you where from worldoffamilies forum as they state G in east-Africa...........I should have checked myself.

http://www.worldfamilies.net/yhaplogroups
[h=3]Egypt[/h] Of 147 samples from among Egyptians in Egypt (2004), 9% were G.[3] And in a 2009 study, among 116 Egyptians, 6.9% were G.[5]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1182266/

regards
 

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