Sicilians: Which groups overlap? (Multiple choice version)

Multiple choice.. pick all that fit.

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Hopefully people don't get angry I am doing a multiple choice version since I had a single choice one from 2 years ago. But I thought I'd pose the question this way, since it is my ethnicity and the way I did the thread before was more limiting.

If a moderator wants to close it they can.
 
Eldritch said:
Greeks and Iberians mostly.
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Some Spanish yes but the Portuguese are very distinct looking in my opinion. But maybe I am just saying this because I have grown up in a family that is partially Sicilian and partially Portuguese, so I am accustomed to the differences.
 
Sicilians are very diverse. Generally speaking, the only "overlap" I see is with Greeks, Italians from the south, Maltese and Levantines.
 
Not Iberians who are native, as a general rule. West is west and east is east.
 
Cambrius (The Red) said:
Not Iberians who are native, as a general rule. West is west and east is east.
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why this sort of "iberian specificity"?: the southern phenotypes with their variants are very numerous in Iberia and if it is true they do not compound the whole or Spain they are very heavy in some parts of it - it is true too that the distributions of western mediterranean types and eastern ones are not similar in Mediterranea, but it is going to far pretending there would not be any overlap between Sicilians and Spaniards: by the way I notice that western Sicilians are more brachycephallic than the eastern ones and show some 'alpinelike' people (kind of Sicanes? of Ligurians?) - Its true too that some prognathic brachycephals existed in Tunisia... a crossing?
 
MOESAN said:
why this sort of "iberian specificity"?: the southern phenotypes with their variants are very numerous in Iberia and if it is true they do not compound the whole or Spain they are very heavy in some parts of it - it is true too that the distributions of western mediterranean types and eastern ones are not similar in Mediterranea, but it is going to far pretending there would not be any overlap between Sicilians and Spaniards: by the way I notice that western Sicilians are more brachycephallic than the eastern ones and show some 'alpinelike' people (kind of Sicanes? of Ligurians?) - Its true too that some prognathic brachycephals existed in Tunisia... a crossing?
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http://www.bestofsicily.com/genetics.htm
 
I could post genetic charts but I hoped to keep the thread about the phenotypes only.
 
MOESAN said:
why this sort of "iberian specificity"?: the southern phenotypes with their variants are very numerous in Iberia and if it is true they do not compound the whole or Spain they are very heavy in some parts of it - it is true too that the distributions of western mediterranean types and eastern ones are not similar in Mediterranea, but it is going to far pretending there would not be any overlap between Sicilians and Spaniards: by the way I notice that western Sicilians are more brachycephallic than the eastern ones and show some 'alpinelike' people (kind of Sicanes? of Ligurians?) - Its true too that some prognathic brachycephals existed in Tunisia... a crossing?
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Thank you for your commnets.

It's a matter of definition. "Overlap" means substantial equivalencies exist. That is certainly not the case as regards Sicilians v French, Spaniards and Portuguese. It's more accurate to say there are minor and sporadic equivalencies in appearance between Sicilians and SW / Western Europeans. Also, it is a mistake to treat SW Europe as simply Med, when in fact the population groups there are primarily some form of Atlantic as regards phenotype.
 
oreo_cookie said:
I could post genetic charts but I hoped to keep the thread about the phenotypes only.
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And, yes, autosomal DNA research shows that there cannot be any real overlap between Iberians, French and Sicilians.
 
I've seen the phenotypical similarity between Sicilians and Iberians described as akin to that between say, Germans and Russians. Both "northern" looking, but distinct. Would you agree with that?
 
it's not only a matter of external looks but even the autosomals overlap in some visible %'s (33% as a proxi; between "mean" Spain ans South Italy, close enough to Sicily, principally through the W-Mediter "Sardinian" pooling as "caucasic" oir "caucasian" play a very little game in this overlap) - and I remember you that Spain or France are large countries with regional differences of means, on every ground!
 
to go farther on my thoughts way, as I wrote yet, even Sicily shows differences according to places and to history
 
MOESAN said:
it's not only a matter of external looks but even the autosomals overlap in some visible %'s (33% as a proxi; between "mean" Spain ans South Italy, close enough to Sicily, principally through the W-Mediter "Sardinian" pooling as "caucasic" oir "caucasian" play a very little game in this overlap) - and I remember you that Spain or France are large countries with regional differences of means, on every ground!
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All the autosomal research shows Spaniards, Portuguese and Southern French are very distant from Sicilians. Actually, the SW European grouping is closer - although they certainly do not cluster with - to British Isles ethnicities than to Sicilians or Southern Italians. Go back to the "overlap" v grades of "similarity" definitions I provided above and things should be quite clear. The West is always considerably more West than it is East and vice versa.
 
MOESAN said:
to go farther on my thoughts way, as I wrote yet, even Sicily shows differences according to places and to history
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We are talking about overall appearances. EVERY region of Europe has phenotypes that are atypical (i.e., not common for the specific geography).
 
oreo_cookie said:
I've seen the phenotypical similarity between Sicilians and Iberians described as akin to that between say, Germans and Russians. Both "northern" looking, but distinct. Would you agree with that?
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Agree somewhat.
 
Except for Brits and Irish I would argue there is some degree of overlap, be it strong or weak, with every other country I put on the poll.
 
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