R-L21 in Northern Portugal

Barantes

Barantes

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Ontario
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Portuguese
Y-DNA haplogroup
R-L21
mtDNA haplogroup
T2B
I have recently found out that I am R-L21+, I am from Northern Portugal. I am wondering how it may have made its way into Northern Portugal/Galicia. Would this be carried by the Gallaecian Celts or possibly another group of Celts from Gaul or something that made their way down. I have noticed that it is extremely high in Ireland and the British Isles in general, I personally have no ancestry from the isles, so I do not see that being a possibility. Hopefully you guys can help.
 
You can find the answer here on Eupedia

R1b-L21 descends from R1b-S116

They were in the Alps 2300 BC , then they started moving.
Most arrived on the British Isles or Bretagne, France.
But some arrived in Northern Iberia.
 
What percentage of R1b is made up by L21, is there an estimate? I'm surprised to see that L21 was on the Continent as late as 2300 B.C., I would have thought they were on the islands as early as 3500 B.C.
 
nordicfoyer said:
What percentage of R1b is made up by L21, is there an estimate? I'm surprised to see that L21 was on the Continent as late as 2300 B.C., I would have thought they were on the islands as early as 3500 B.C.
Click to expand...
If your talking about the British Isles, I think you may be confused, as it arrival seems most likely to have been around 3500 YBP not BCE. In 3500 BCE the British Isles would have been mostly G2 and I2.As for L21 in Portugal,This site shows a frequency of 1 to 5% in Portugal, pretty much straight across the country. As referenced in this map.
Haplogroup-R1b-L21.gif
 
according to the page on haplo R1b of this site, they arrived in Europe and first settled in Hungary some 3500 BP. 2300 BP they were still in the Alps. What they did all those 1200 yeas, I don't know.
 
I don't have even a working knowledge of the R1b lines, but now that I've learned that I have at least one great grandfather who's L21 I plan on changing that...
 
Anthro-inclined said:
If your talking about the British Isles, I think you may be confused, as it arrival seems most likely to have been around 3500 YBP not BCE. In 3500 BCE the British Isles would have been mostly G2 and I2.As for L21 in Portugal,This site shows a frequency of 1 to 5% in Portugal, pretty much straight across the country. As referenced in this map.
Haplogroup-R1b-L21.gif
Click to expand...

The posted map is outdated since it does not include the latest Iberian findings from the R-L21 Ancestry Project, which shows an increasing number of Spaniards and Portuguese testing as R-21. The R-21 percentages in Iberia are likely significantly higher today. I believe one of Eupedia's members is part of the project.
 
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Barantes said:
I have recently found out that I am R-L21+, I am from Northern Portugal. I am wondering how it may have made its way into Northern Portugal/Galicia. Would this be carried by the Gallaecian Celts or possibly another group of Celts from Gaul or something that made their way down. I have noticed that it is extremely high in Ireland and the British Isles in general, I personally have no ancestry from the isles, so I do not see that being a possibility. Hopefully you guys can help.
Click to expand...

I'm also RL-21 and my family as a whole comes from NW Iberia, Spain and Portugal.
 
Cambrius (The Red) said:
The posted map is outdated since it does not include the latest Iberian findings from the R-L21 Ancestry Project, which shows an increasing number Spaniards and Portuguese testing as R-21. The R-21 percentages in Iberia are likely significantly higher today. I believe one of Eupedia's members is part of the project.
Click to expand...
Could be, you should ask the admin to update it.
 
Barantes said:
I have recently found out that I am R-L21+, I am from Northern Portugal. I am wondering how it may have made its way into Northern Portugal/Galicia. Would this be carried by the Gallaecian Celts or possibly another group of Celts from Gaul or something that made their way down. I have noticed that it is extremely high in Ireland and the British Isles in general, I personally have no ancestry from the isles, so I do not see that being a possibility. Hopefully you guys can help.
Click to expand...

Gaulish migrations into Iberia were probably through Aquitaine and the Eastern Pyrenees. However, it is quite possible that Celticity was already well developed in parts of Iberia centuries before the Celts of Central Europe made an appearance. Read the recently published Atlantic School research from the University of Wales, etc. See Koch, Cunliff, Untermann...
 
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Cambrius (The Red) said:
I'll try and locate the RL-21 ancestry information. Most of the maps on here are inaccurate...
Click to expand...

That would be great Cambrius. Would you have an idea of the percentage L21 holds out of the R1b lines?

The transition from R followed by a series of a,b,1,2,3 to the newer SNP terminology is problematic for someone that doesn't have deep background in R groupings. For example, I was trying to figure a SNP for King Tut's R1b father, but soon realized I almost need some sort of Rosetta Stone.
 
Cambrius (The Red) said:
Gaulish migrations into Iberia were probably through Aquitaine and the Eastern Pyrenees. However, it is quite possible that Celticity was already well developed in parts of Iberia well before the Celts of Central Europe made an appearance. Read the recently published Atlantic School research from the University of Wales, etc. See Koch, Cunliff, Untermann...
Click to expand...
So you're saying it most likely was Gallaecian Celts who were R-L21 and thats why it's higher in the northern part of the Peninsula? How strong it is in the Isles is what has me confused since it's basically associated with that region
 
nordicfoyer said:
That would be great Cambrius. Would you have an idea of the percentage L21 holds out of the R1b lines?

The transition from R followed by a series of a,b,1,2,3 to the newer SNP terminology is problematic for someone that doesn't have deep background in R groupings. For example, I was trying to figure a SNP for King Tut's R1b father, but soon realized I almost need some sort of Rosetta Stone.
Click to expand...

Genetics is wild, wonderful and very confusing. :LOL:
 
Barantes said:
So you're saying it most likely was Gallaecian Celts who were R-L21 and thats why it's higher in the northern part of the Peninsula? How strong it is in the Isles is what has me confused since it's basically associated with that region
Click to expand...

Not necessarily. There were many different Celtic tribes in Iberia, particularly in the west, prior to the Roman invasions. Although not fully proven yet, I suspect that some of these population groups were indigenous to the Peninsula while others migrated from Gaul. We cannot yet identify with any accuracy a "Celtic genome." RL-21 is really the most recent mutation of clades found in Iberia and France and it seems the highest percentages of the clade are in the NW regions of Europe. Much research remains to be done.

Also, bear in mind that the Atlantic facade peoples during the Iron and Bronze ages had extensive commercial and social contact via maritime routes. Exchanges between Western Iberia, Western and Northern France and the British Isles went on for many, many centuries and there was great circularity. The scientific evidence is most substantial (see Cunliffe 2005, 2010).
 
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Cambrius (The Red) said:
Not necessarily. There were many different Celtic tribes in Iberia, particularly in the west, prior to the Roman invasions. Although not fully proven yet, I suspect that some of these population groups were indigenous to the Peninsula while others migrated from Gaul. We cannot yet identify with any accuracy a "Celtic genome." RL-21 is really the most recent mutation of clades found in Iberia and France and it seems the highest percentages of the clade are in the NW regions of Europe. Much research remains to be done.

Also, bear in mind that the Atlantic facade peoples during the Iron and Bronze ages had extensive commercial and social contact via maritime routes. Exchanges between Western Iberia, Western and Northern France and the British Isles went on for many, many centuries and there was great circularity. The scientific evidence is most substantial (see Cunliffe 2005, 2010).
Click to expand...
Oh I see, I just hope more research is done on R-L21 in Iberia in the future
 
^^

The research continues move along at an increasing pace, it seems.
 
Is there enough research done on the topic to place where highest concentration of R-L21 is in Iberia excluding Basques if they do have it
 
I thought that new surveys had found just the contrary: that Y-R1b-L21 was the highest among Basque country of Iberia !?! (about 18%) ??? I shall look for...
 
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