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View Full Version : EuroGroup vs Cyprus vs GAZPROM (ΓΑ3ΠΡΟΜ)



Yetos
18-03-13, 00:29
the links are in Greek language,

I will try to make a summary,

http://www.real.gr/DefaultArthro.aspx?page=arthro&id=218431&catID=11

http://www.inews.gr/5/kypros-i-kentriki-trapeza-metefere-espefsmena-5-dis.htm

http://www.inews.gr/5/P-Krugman-sinialo-gia-bank-run-i-apofasi-gia-tin-kypro.htm

http://www.inews.gr/20/rosiki-protasi-apo-ti-Gazprom-gia-ti-sotiria-tis-kyprou.htm

http://www.inews.gr/88/odevoume-pros-mi-anastrepsimi-katastrofi-proeidopoioun-oi-ependytes-gia-tin-kypro.htm

http://news247.gr/eidiseis/oikonomia/oikonomika/forbes_lathos_analogo_ths_lehman_brothers_h_apofas h_gia_thn_kupro.2172683.html


http://news247.gr/eidiseis/kosmos/news/orgh_sth_rwsia_gia_to_sxedio_diaswshs_ths_kuproy.2 172374.html

http://news247.gr/eidiseis/kosmos/news/diaggelma_anastasiadh_eixa_na_epileksw_to_kourema_ h_thn_atakth_xreokopia.2172047.html


Seems like the ECB desicion about Cyprut Democracy and her banks is not accepted by Cypriots,
until now news and bargains run every minute with many informations,
Cyprus was a banking heaven mainly for Russians and Gazprom, and some others,
only today Russian bussinesman lost 3 500 000 000 E (RT) or 3 000 000 000 $ (Forbes)while cyprus lost 20 billion E just before the anouncement,
seems like future of Cyprus is after her hands, or after a big war, economic even military,
it up her hands to choose Icelanding model, or move away from EU which will be a big mistake since Cyprus Gas and oil deposit are Huge, or a worse fate than Greece.
all started after a 'strange' accident that destrioy a power plant in Cyprus last year,
one of the most wealthy and healthy economies, since the deposits were 5 times the state income.
Cyprus has almost zero balance in economics yet the pressure by banks was heavy,
on the other hand Russia used cyprus as corporation base and banking to make deals with rest Europe,
that desicion sounded like 'war' in Russian federation,

PS.
it seems like someone decided south Italy, Greece, Albania, Cyprus, (where the future energy deposits of EU exists) to be under a strong Central control, by Bankers,
yet nothing is decided, since in Cyprus the 'love' for EU drop from 75% to ~ 50%
and also Greece from 84% to ~48%. lets hope East mediterenean not to be a new Persian Gulf.
although the desicion for Cyprus can be a new Lehman Brother 'BOOM'

PS2
rumors say that Russian Gazprom is about to buy all Cyprus depth,

PS3
such desicion are promoting extra blind nationalism,
in 1 month in Greece raise from 0% to 8% then to 12%, after such desicion I am expecting more than 18% and Gods know how much in Cyprus.

PS4
the Total (oil company) case which Francais president brought to Greece seemed as good solution, but after the above seems like Total is the other hand of ECB.

until Tuesday we will know better, since Monday is a Holy day for all Eastern churches Orthodox and Catholic.

Yetos
18-03-13, 14:21
the latest news are giving a generous preposition by Russia

http://www.inews.gr/148/epimenei-i-Gazprom-stin-protasi-tis---doste-mas-tora-ton-termatiko-stathmo-kai-glitonete.htm

It seems like Gazprom is asking to buy 2 banks from Cyprus, if Cyprus will not accept the Eurogroup 'surviving' plan.
not only, also build a gas terminal at Μαρι (Mari) and offer to buy a 'field of Gas'

seems like all night V. Putin. A. Muhller, Israeli economical agents, and British economical agents try to find solutions,

I really don't know where the Eurogroup surviving plan pass or not, seems like the economical status will chenge for ever,
if Cyprus will not agree with Eurogroup, then many European high position will lose their job even go to judge,
Goldman sachs is about to lose much more than expected, EU fiscal union plan is about to collapse, and the road for moving away from Brussels (Eu not Belgic) orders is open,
may i remind you that Cyprus is a small Swiss, inside EU, where both Britain and Russia use Banks to trade with Arabs China and Africa since Cyprus once was a proud member of 3rd world movement,
the deposits in Cypriot banks reach more than x5 the state income, something extraordinary for EU country,

the thrill will end tomorrow if all goes ok,
but really I don't know about the future,

http://www.real.gr/DefaultArthro.aspx?page=arthro&id=218509&catID=11

it seems like 71% of Cypriots are rejecting Eurogroup solution,
that means we may have a new Iceland way?
60% want the Euro and 40% want to go back to Cypriot pound (λιρα) the old exchange which was based and equal to British pound.


http://www.real.gr/DefaultArthro.aspx?page=arthro&id=218516&catID=4

from the German ministry for economy rumors speak about asking for new 'tele meeting' of Eurogroup today.
Seems like the fear that huge energy deposits can move to non 'friendly' hands droped like thunder.
Even Turkey the giant 'Siemens No2' is quiet about the subject.

PS
when I said that crisis at a good percentage is 'fabricated and fictional' someone laugh,
how about now? forcing Cyprus to sell her energy deposits?

james stock
18-03-13, 14:47
Why the weaker Eurozone states continue to stay in the eurozone is beyond me. It makes absolutely no sense for Greece to be enslaved by the Bundesbank and not issue its own currency. The only benefactor of peripheral eurozone weakness is the cores ability to have a competitive advantage with exports. Weakness in the periphery is a drag on the value of the EUR, making it cheaper for the Germans to export their goods. This means that Germany is the benefactor of Greek economic weakness and Germans would be crazy to want Greece to leave the Eurozone.

I think it's time for the Greeks to wake up, leave the Eurozone, and issue their own currency.

Dianatomia
19-03-13, 10:40
I think it's time for the Greeks to wake up, leave the Eurozone, and issue their own currency.

Greece can not simply leave the eurozone. There are enormous consequences attached for the eurozone area as a whole.

Besides, the current Greek government will never leave the eurozone voluntarily. It would mean that they have failed. As such, they would loose power and end up in jail as traitors for signing the bail-out agreements.
Greece could only leave the eurozone by a majority vote of the people or some kind of revolution.

Also, Greece leaving the eurozone will mean that the country will go towards an alliance with Russia.

Yetos
19-03-13, 22:59
It not obligation to go with Russia, or USA, but surely the balances in Balkans and East mediterrenean will not be as today.

Yetos
19-03-13, 23:23
http://www.inews.gr/226/ti-akrivos-theloun-oi-germanoi-apo-tin-kypro---engrafo-soible-sto-germ-koinovoulio.htm


for those who want to read more 'Der Spiegel' has some behind the scenes data.

it seems like the dream of one and only one SuperBank in EU is canceled by Cyprus.
the desicion is historical no matter the future will bring cause it means that in some corners of EU still live 'free' people who can decide for their shelves, families and future.
according the future of Cyprus many others will have the chance to say No against EU Central desicions,
surely now opens again the road for No again to Greece, Italy, Spain, Portugal, and Ireland,

I do not know if that is good or bad for the future of EU,
but I know is a strong slap to 'Banklovers' and Central Command areas of EU.

the next big slap must be given to collosal corporations which are stronger than any European country.
Europe with out middle class, has no difference with many Dictatoric countries of near past.

PS
It is time to recosinder what kind of fiscal union we want as EU citizens.
the first NO has recorded.

PS2
I wonder is it coinsidence that Deutschland Banks were the only ones who earn from crisis in South, while after Cyprus desicion Bundesbank is about to lose much more that earned until today, Austrian minister spoke about that very extense, and at least in my eyes she is a good observer in EU economics

So lets wait to see what the future is bringing.
the problem of Cyprus now is that she must find 5 700 000 000 E in the near future,
How much Russians will help Cyprus?
Russians saved 3 000 000 000 E that were to change hand and pass to ECB, they are willing to save Laiki popular Bank but how much will they have pay to save Cyprus?

lets hope that the miracle of Iceland that kick the .... of big Bankers will be repeat.
Enough with collosal banks and corporations.



http://news247.gr/eidiseis/oikonomia/oikonomiki_krisi/akoma_kai_surraksh_thewrei_pithanh_o_giounker.2174 659.html

Monday's Der Spiegel

Tuesday's Der Stantard (Austrian)

seems like my fears are also Jean Claude's fears, (ex Eurogroup head)
'The deamons have not left, they just sleep' said and mention even the possibilies for 'war(m) days ghost' above Europe.

Yetos
21-03-13, 07:41
Why is important the desicion of Cypriots.

that is the first attempt in EU to save a country by peoples deposits.
consider if that pass a measure,
then it it will be a 'law' a solution in the hands of both goverment and ECB.
that means that in future each country can borrow, then 'take' the deposits of people to pay,
so politicians who are close to Bankers will borrow and people will pay with less fear,
If we combine that with laws such as more than 1500E bill in Greece must be paid by debit or credit bank card, then it is simple to understand what kind of economy we will have in the future,

besides if a measure pass once then can be used in another country,
Just think if something like that happens tommorow at a country like Deutscheland or France etc.

The 2nd reason is the free pass-movement of capitals (money) inside EU, and the free choice of people,
analyzing more,
Today a bank of Greece can support a project in Germany,
A bank of Italy can support a construction in Bulgaria,
in the terms of the Eurogroup-Cyprus agreement was also the term that 'small' banks can support projects only in their homecountry, while big Banks everywhere,
Meaning that the major 2 Cypriot Banks can support only projects inside Cyprus, while foreign banks can also support projects in Cyprus,
and in case for Cyprus where the 40-60% of the deposit are foreign capitals means almost death.

PS
my personal believe is to close all private Banks, except mints and central state banks.
I do not want to Support Cypriot Banks, they worked as 'washing machines' in the past, but I am force to support the peoples' desicion.

Yetos
21-03-13, 22:41
seems like the EuGroup/Cyprus pass the Atlantic,

in NYT Paul krugman(maybe I spell wrong) say about the case FUBAR (F Up Beyond All Recognition)

in the bellow video you see some Russian Bussiness man that use Cyprus as base.


http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xydoof_yyyyyy-yyy-y-yyyyyyyyyyy-yyyy-yyyyy-2_news


from some discussions I had today, seems like the final act will not be Cyprus, but Italy,
South Italy, Apullia is about to become a huge oil and gas productive area, and the biggest terminal of all, Albanian Greek Cyprus Russian Georgian Azerbaijan/Turkey MonteNegro/Croatian.
Agkona and Brindesi and a future connection with Napoli seems will be the energy heart of Europe.
So Italy must find her way before the time runs out.

http://www.real.gr/Files/Articles/Photo/550_334_219441.jpg



Besides the today meeting among J M Barozo and V Putin turn to be nothing new.

LeBrok
22-03-13, 02:30
What would happen to Cypriots if their banks fail?

Yetos
22-03-13, 07:42
What would happen to Cypriots if their banks fail?

really don't know.

4 possible solutions I can see

1) state will be like Argentina before few years,
2) we might have a repeat of Icelanding miracle
3) state will be forced to sell cheap the Gas deposits
4) area there is warm, Syria Turkey Egypt Israel Palestine

What do you think?

and what about Eurozone? what will happened to Eu if Cyprus decided to move away?
surely EU is 'armed' for such cases but something might happened also.

Yetos
23-03-13, 23:44
for the record,
there is small history about that case in

deutsche-wirtschaft-nachrichten.de

and in BNP-Paribas chief economy analyzer opinions.

Yetos
24-03-13, 20:54
It seems like Cypriot president has quit of his position, and leaves the desicion to the people,

New elections-referendum is about to be in Cyprus

BTW the (Romanian) Draculescu, a girl whos father was a high officer at Tsausesku times in Romania,
a strong ex-Comunist,
a girl that sunk Costa-Rica and Peru, is in open war with Cyprus,
IMF is just the clown since Langarde can not handle IMF where the above Romanian Delia seems to have more power than Langarde,
for the record, ex-strong communist daughter of a tsausesku officer, which study in the USA with money that her father steall fromRomanian people, the one who destroy costa-Rica Peru and many others, seems to be ahead than Langarde, and we might even have change of hands in IMF.

it seems like in small countries like Iceland and cyprus democracy works,
lets see.

Cambrius (The Red)
24-03-13, 21:28
Another tragedy in the works...

Yetos
25-03-13, 01:53
get your shelve prepaired for Globo or Yuan.
'Barbers' will 'haircut' Euro and USD$ in few years, so to bring the 'one'

Dianatomia
26-03-13, 08:54
The agreement was made under severe pressure by the Troika. They forced the Cypriot president to conform. Don't you find it strange that the Cypriot parliament could not vote for the package? They voted NO the first time, the second time Cyprus got worse deal than the first and forced Cyprus to conform.

Cambrius (The Red)
27-03-13, 19:33
Why was Cyprus admitted to the Eurozone in the first place?

Freemind
30-03-13, 23:54
Troika and her puppets at Eurogroup will destroy Europe. Europe has no future any more. Cyprus after the hostility of all the so called partners does not feel europe anymore and no longer wants europe. Cypriots dont want bundesbank to rule them. Europe has deliberately imposed heavy losses in Cyprus banks after Creece haircut and they have now finished the perfect murder. From the beginning the goal of Troika was to beat Cyprus. Money laundering was the excuse but this is bullshit. Europe wake up. Who will be next ? Cypriots will lift their heads and will work again to live. The anti German, anti Holland, anti Sweden and generally antieurope feeling is stronger than ever in Cyprus . With Gods help Cyprus will stand up again. But please note that we will never forget this. Europe has shown to Cyprus which is the correct way and this is not Europe.

LeBrok
31-03-13, 00:17
It's not the end of the world. Greeks went bankrupt 3 or 4 times in last century. They have survived every time. Cyprus will too. Life goes on. Try picking better politicians next time to run your country. If not successful, come to Alberta, Canada. Economy is great and we need more people of all skills.

Cambrius (The Red)
31-03-13, 22:48
It's amazing the bundle of mistakes made with Cyprus. A sad predicament for the population.

Christiaan
01-04-13, 01:32
Troika and her puppets at Eurogroup will destroy Europe. Europe has no future any more. Cyprus after the hostility of all the so called partners does not feel europe anymore and no longer wants europe. Cypriots dont want bundesbank to rule them. Europe has deliberately imposed heavy losses in Cyprus banks after Creece haircut and they have now finished the perfect murder. From the beginning the goal of Troika was to beat Cyprus. Money laundering was the excuse but this is bullshit. Europe wake up. Who will be next ? Cypriots will lift their heads and will work again to live. The anti German, anti Holland, anti Sweden and generally antieurope feeling is stronger than ever in Cyprus . With Gods help Cyprus will stand up again. But please note that we will never forget this. Europe has shown to Cyprus which is the correct way and this is not Europe.

If I were you I would be more mad about your politicians and the bankingsystem. It's easy to blame the European Union or northern countries for the bankruptcy.
What did you expect a "carte blanche" even Russia did not guarantee further funds or loans? Is it fair that tax payers have to pay for the fault of the banks? After the Iceland debacle Icesave the Cypriots could have known that high interest rates makes banks very vulnerable.

nordicwarbler
02-04-13, 15:05
Cyprus is the canary in the coal mine. If the banksters see they can pull off capital theft from the middle class on this island, then these "haircuts" will be coming to your economy soon. Even Canada (who is currently enjoying relative stability because of it's plentiful natural resources) has passed a law making this practice legal. Cyprus has huge oil and gas reserves and in no way should be putting up with this nonsense.

Iceland had these robber barons figured out from the beginning.

nordicwarbler
02-04-13, 15:21
This isn't a problem limited to the EU either. Here in the U.S. we have our own problems with the global money managers. Is it a coincidence that we are battling attempted gun restrictions while this economic tailspin is happening?

Yet our own government is purchasing 1.6 hollow point bullets for agencies like Social Security Enforcement and also weather monitoring stations. Makes you think abit.

Freemind
02-04-13, 22:36
Here in Cyprus incompetence, irresponsibility and stupidity of state officials, party leaders, Central Bank governors and presidents have destroyed a big part of the country's economy. And now the people of the country have to pay the bill. A haircut is imposed on pension schemes, charities, Cyprus companies, pensioners etc. Yes, the responsibilities in Cyprus are unforgivable. But the whole story was a well organised plan years ago from Germany, Holland etc. After the greek bail-in they have succeeded to impose billions of losses to Cyprus Banks due to the Cyprus politicians stupidity. They have found the way to destroy the country by inserting a time bomb in Cyprus economy. And the politicians instead of trying to solve the problem were fighting for the elections. Cyprus feels betrayed from the European union as other countries with economic crisis problems had very favourable handling. Eurogroup is also unforgivable as the have used Cyprus as a guinea pig. With the decision of haircut on deposits they have destroyed the Cyprus Banks which were seeking for help. Its like a wounded man seeking for medical assistance. The doctor shoots him with a shotgun for his own reasons and then is trying to recover him.

kamani
02-04-13, 23:09
It's not the end of the world. Greeks went bankrupt 3 or 4 times in last century. They have survived every time. Cyprus will too. Life goes on. Try picking better politicians next time to run your country. If not successful, come to Alberta, Canada. Economy is great and we need more people of all skills.

That's not a bad idea actually, Canada can take everybody in Greece without much difficulty. They just need to know some english or french and be capable to work.

nordicwarbler
03-04-13, 00:32
That's not a bad idea actually, Canada can take everybody in Greece without much difficulty. They just need to know some english or french and be capable to work.

Or Mandarin.

nordicwarbler
03-04-13, 00:55
There's a great exchange captured on video between Irish journalist Vincent Browne and Klaus Masuch of the European Central Bank and their conversation very much applies to what's going on in Cyprus right now. This short interview has over 500,000 views on youtube so it's fairly well known.

Most people don't see what I see in this exchange though. Sure, I see an angry Irishman dominate a debate while utterly shaming his opponent-- but let's go deeper. I see all of Ireland getting royally screwed by a handful of greedy bondholders that really have no right getting bailed out multiple times.

What good does having an impressive squawk (and Mr. Browne is indeed impressive here) do when your getting reamed? It doesn't change the fact that you're getting reamed. This is so simple to me. Iceland has led the way. Follow the path.

LeBrok
03-04-13, 02:06
This is so simple to me. Iceland has led the way. Follow the path.
It is simple because you don't know all the facts. Icelanders still pay for their debt either way. They took a big hit on their salaries up to 50% or have to work 70 hours a week to compensate! Sure they are resourceful people, good for them, they have healthy economy too, that helps a lot. Unfortunately neither Greece nor Cyprus have good economies to pull it off.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-20936685

Yetos
03-04-13, 05:55
the case of Cyprus is important cause is the First in EU that such solution has been given,
after Cyprus will follow many others,
I was reading that Bankers now focus in Slovenia and then Latvia,
seems like that either the the whole Europe has either failed,
either the heart of economic EU has dept,
either someone is gathering all the money of EU.
if the 'system' goes to Slovenia, and then pass to North in Latvia then the old 'Lazy south' is a myth,
and crisis had another face than we were informed,
no need to use global conspiracy theories,
But concerning Cyprus which economy (according population) was stronger than England before Euro, and now is boom,
I think something else is running than the lazy/corrupt theories.

nordicwarbler
03-04-13, 13:50
It is simple because you don't know all the facts. Icelanders still pay for their debt either way. They took a big hit on their salaries up to 50% or have to work 70 hours a week to compensate! Sure they are resourceful people, good for them, they have healthy economy too, that helps a lot. Unfortunately neither Greece nor Cyprus have good economies to pull it off.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-20936685

I'm not sure why you assume that I don't know all the facts-- I've studied this global downturn in depth.

Of course Iceland struggled when they told the international bankers to pound sand. This is an ugly process. The only thing I would have done differently if I was running Iceland is avoid taking the IMF loans. I'm sure they dangled an impressive carrot in front of the Icelanders-- with seemingly lenient terms, but there is no free lunch with the IMF'ers. That you can be certain of...

Cyprus has the energy reserves to be self-sufficient like Iceland. Either we can all make rather painful financial adjustments now, or we will be forced to deal with spasms of strife when the wheels come off (starvation, riots, class warfare, etc.). Painful adjustments now = allowing zombie banks to die among other societal changes.

These global unification movements-- the Euro, North American Union/NAFTA, etc. are based on a footing of popcorn farts. It might look good on paper, but not so great in actual application. I think if you're in the top 1% these schemes play out exceedingly well (for the short and mid terms anyway), but for the bottom 99%-- you had better get used to life as a serf.

LeBrok
03-04-13, 17:55
I'm not sure why you assume that I don't know all the facts--

Over-rosy example of Iceland from your posts perhaps?

nordicwarbler
03-04-13, 19:41
Over-rosy example of Iceland from your posts perhaps?

Hmm, you actually seem to be in full defense of the banks in your posts Lebrok. I'm waiting for you to start defending carbon tax credits which is the next leg of this mess...

It's good that Icelanders are working their way out, they get to keep the sweat of their collective brow rather than some corrupt fat cat bondholder that enjoys the financial rewards of investing, but partakes in none of the risk because of insider government bailouts.

LeBrok
04-04-13, 02:51
Hmm, you actually seem to be in full defense of the banks in your posts Lebrok.
I'm just refusing to throw baby with dirty bath water. Banking system exist for good 500 years, it is part of our economy and our today's high standard of living is in big way due to modern banking and credit industry.


I'm waiting for you to start defending carbon tax credits which is the next leg of this mess... That's purely leftist/environmental doing. Not sure what classical banking has to do with it?


It's good that Icelanders are working their way out, I like that a lot.



they get to keep the sweat of their collective brow rather than some corrupt fat cat bondholder that enjoys the financial rewards of investing, but partakes in none of the risk because of insider government bailouts What about Islanding shareholders and bondholders of Icelandic banks that went under, or other businesses? They are not worthy citizens for you? You can't separate anyone in this mess. Everybody is paying for this recession.
Also keep in mind how many Icelanders had to emigrate for work or to escape their mess.

nordicwarbler
04-04-13, 05:55
...Everybody is paying for this recession...

I wish that were the case. I can think of only one "fat cat" that has paid his debt to society and that's Bernie Madoff of all people. The integrity of the entire financial system is now on the chopping block. Guys like me aren't jumping back in the pool because the system is so obviously rigged.

The elites are now looking for war under every corner (North Korea, Iran) in hopes that will take the focus off the real problem-- entrenched generational corruption. The common folk aren't buying it again. I'm not putting up with another Iraq or Afghanistan.

By the way, I'm glad you're not a fan of carbon credits. That we can agree on.

nordicwarbler
04-04-13, 06:37
The other societal changes that I mentioned-- self reliance.

Grow a garden
Plant some fruit and nut trees
Foster relationships with your neighbors
Store a year supply of dry grains (or at least a few month's worth) (avoid wild and brown rice though, it's high oil content makes it spoil more rapidly)
Install sisterns for rain run-off (a simple plastic garbage can works in a pinch)
Physical silver is nice to have for barter situations
Stock up on sugar, salt, honey, and dry spices-- all store exceptionally well

And for the Amercian readers-- lock and load or join a church because you are going to have to make that decision if things get tribal.

If nothing happens, no biggie at least you've got some peace of mind and the knowledge that you are less grid dependent.

And please don't label me a survivalist nut... all of our great grandparents did these things before modern society coddled us to the state we are in now.

LeBrok
04-04-13, 06:59
I wish that were the case. I can think of only one "fat cat" that has paid his debt to society and that's Bernie Madoff of all people.Certainly should be many more in jail, but this situation is far from being one sided either. Bankers go to jail too.

A total of 463 banks in the U.S. have failed since 2008, typically the victims of the bad economy, soured loans, poor management or a combination of all three. The number of executives now in prison for crimes at those banks is far smaller: about 17, data from the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. show.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324073504578109262775186452.html

Surely, most of these 463 bank failures are not from criminal offences. Most of them, like other businesses go under from incompetence of leaders, bad investments or too much risk. It would be naive to conclude that if bank fails it is always because CEO stole all the money. And honestly, what management would bankrupt their bank with premeditation (planned way in advance), to forfeit income of easy millions of dollars to the end of their lives, if bank is run properly.


The elites are now looking for war under every corner (North Korea, Iran) in hopes that will take the focus off the real problem-- entrenched generational corruption. The common folk aren't buying it again. I'm not putting up with another Iraq or Afghanistan.
Do you think that if elites were normal people there wouldn't be wars?
I think elites are now praying for end of recession, so they can go back to making easy billions, and working class would be busy working again and buying their toys and not protesting, manifesting, occupying, and making them jittery all the time. Who needs this?





By the way, I'm glad you're not a fan of carbon credits. That we can agree on. I think plants in my garden are hungry for more CO2, and after this winter I really hope that anthropogenic global warming is true. :)

LeBrok
04-04-13, 07:10
The other societal changes that I mentioned-- self reliance.

Store a year supply of dry grains (or at least a few month's worth) (avoid wild rice though, it's high oil content makes it spoil more rapidly)
.
Come on, with reserves of fat Americans stored in last generation, they should survive for couple of years without rice :)

Many of your points should be implemented in all times.

nordicwarbler
04-04-13, 08:36
Come on, with reserves of fat Americans stored in last generation, they should survive for couple of years without rice :)

Sadly that's not fat anymore, it's stomach bloat from all the GMO now in our diets.

No worries though, a case of abdominal cancer isn't THAT serious. Plus it's covered by Obamacare. Thanks Obama!

P.S. When Jon Corzine (of M.F. Global fame) gets hauled in front of a grand jury, then we will know the regulators have gotten serious about cleaning up the banking cabal.

P.S.S. Ouch... the fat American joke was payback for my Mandarin/Canada comment I'm guessing. Oh well, we're even. :)

LeBrok
04-04-13, 17:35
P.S.S. Ouch... the fat American joke was payback for my Mandarin/Canada comment I'm guessing. Oh well, we're even. :)
Lol, I wouldn't, I like my American friends.
I was going with statistical findings, placing Americans as the fattest nation on this planet.
Just found this, looks like Qatar is the first, US is second.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2301172/Fattest-countries-world-revealed-Extraordinary-graphic-charts-average-body-mass-index-men-women-country-surprising-results.html

nurset
24-04-13, 12:08
What will be if Cypriots receive bailout and nothing is done? New Greece??

Yetos
29-04-13, 21:15
I am reading now about a discussion,

seems like Cypriots are about to a referendum,

to vote yes or no to Euro,
if yes then the way is known,
if no? it will be the first no and exit out of Euro.

we will see,

oriental
22-05-13, 01:20
I remember reading about China's plan to resurrect the Silk Road by rails. China had plans to connect Kashgar through Tajikstan, Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq and Syria and maybe Turkey. Greece and Venice suffered because the Portuguese discovered a sea route to Asia by way of the Atlantic Ocean around Africa into the Indian Ocean. The troubles in the Middle East is probably delaying the construction of the fast train system envisioned by the Chinese. With the completion of this system Greece and Venice could again thrive as there will be tourists and the cities and ports along the route would benefit.

LeBrok
22-05-13, 04:20
I remember reading about China's plan to resurrect the Silk Road by rails. China had plans to connect Kashgar through Tajikstan, Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq and Syria and maybe Turkey. Greece and Venice suffered because the Portuguese discovered a sea route to Asia by way of the Atlantic Ocean around Africa into the Indian Ocean. The troubles in the Middle East is probably delaying the construction of the fast train system envisioned by the Chinese. With the completion of this system Greece and Venice could again thrive as there will be tourists and the cities and ports along the route would benefit.
I'm sorry but it doesn't make economic sense. The ticket from Beijing to Athens can be as cheap as 1,000 bucks, and it takes 15 hours to get there on plane. What investor would spend 100 billion dollars or even 10 billion to build fast train to go through mostly deserts and steppes through poor countries? Would you ride the train from Beijing to Athens for 3-4 days for 500 bucks, if you can fly for 1000 and be there in 15 hours?
There is a reason there are no trans Canada passenger trains running anymore.
Your idea is very romantic, but count the money Oriental, count the money. Economics one on one.

Yetos
22-05-13, 18:34
I remember reading about China's plan to resurrect the Silk Road by rails. China had plans to connect Kashgar through Tajikstan, Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq and Syria and maybe Turkey. Greece and Venice suffered because the Portuguese discovered a sea route to Asia by way of the Atlantic Ocean around Africa into the Indian Ocean. The troubles in the Middle East is probably delaying the construction of the fast train system envisioned by the Chinese. With the completion of this system Greece and Venice could again thrive as there will be tourists and the cities and ports along the route would benefit.

no need,

the only thing needed is a 6th lvl dock,
China already make propose to buy Piraus port,
COSCO is interested much, but yet Greek ship owner are connected with MAERSK.
yet if the crisis don't end until next elections, seems like China might buy the Aegean Motorway Road E74 and many storehouses in Piraus, yet due to enviromental problems, Greece is Offering an island ouside Alexandoupolis to build a 6th lvl marine/dock and from there to go with smaller ships (D size) to Istambul or inland to central Europe.

oriental
22-05-13, 21:12
I was checking the Orient Express a luxury train journey from Paris to Istanbul. There was a movie, an Agatha Christie Mystery "Murder on the Orient Express" or something. I didn't see it. Whatever China does is basically taking advantage of the crisis. But the Silk Road is more about trade than tourism I think. I am not sure.

Yetos
22-05-13, 22:35
I was checking the Orient Express a luxury train journey from Paris to Istanbul. There was a movie, an Agatha Christie Mystery "Murder on the Orient Express" or something. I didn't see it. Whatever China does is basically taking advantage of the crisis. But the Silk Road is more about trade than tourism I think. I am not sure.

a 6 lvl dock ship. using methane and solar/wind power, can bring 1 kgr maze from China to Athens with cost less than 0,10 E, and in timelength less than a month Via Suez, do you realize the cost and the profit?
for the next decades, the nightmare of china is the Mexico decision (no trade, isolation from the global markets)
for Germany is to lose the ability of the markets of South Europe
for Russia to be excluded from Meditrennean
while Turkey is in the crossroad of EUzation or stay as she has, a very impressive development and very promising, yet is like baby-giant with feet of glass, always afraid Kurdistan indepedent extremists, or a balkanic country to be developed.
Britain France are in the crossroad of a possible mediocre future,

the train road was the dream of Russia and USSR, they name it Transsibirskaya Magistral (transiberian) from Moscow to Ekateriniburg to Irkutsk to 1) Mongolia - Beyzing
2) Vladivostok -Pacific ocean

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/de/Map_Trans-Siberian_railway.png/800px-Map_Trans-Siberian_railway.png

oriental
22-05-13, 23:27
I have seen dvds of the Trans-Siberian railway system. It is impressive and most of the view out of the windows are Taiga trees. In winter the window view has just snow and trees. I don't think any tourist would take this rather boring journey. The Silk Road would be through different countries and different cultures. The scenery would be varied as there will be mountains, valleys, cities and deserts.

Note: I am not familiar with European units. What is lvl, kgr = kilogram? E= euro? Mexico decision ? what is that? I don't all that Europe decided. Actually I learnt a lot about Europe from Eupedia and you. Thanks. lol.

Is lvl = level?

oriental
23-05-13, 00:42
What investor would spend 100 billion dollars or even 10 billion to build fast train to go through mostly deserts and steppes through poor countries?

You are forgetting China is not a pure capitalistic society. They are probably doing what big companies do. A loss leader trick. Give freebies to build up market. Billions of dollars is nothing for an 8 trillion dollar economy. No doubt Iraq is mostly desert but the Silk Road route is along the northern borders in the mountainous areas with trees and vegetation. I have taken dvds from the library on Iraq, Iran, Turkey, Afghanistan and they are quite scenic. Mountains have moisture asthe air is cooled when it rises. Water condenses and the mountain sides get rain. Notice how all the goat people live on mountain slopes which have grass all the time.

LeBrok
23-05-13, 02:42
You are forgetting China is not a pure capitalistic society. They are probably doing what big companies. A loss leader trick. Give freebies to build up market. Billions of dollars is nothing for an 8 trillion dollar economy. No doubt Iraq is mostly desert but the Silk Road route is along the northern borders in the mountainous areas with trees and vegetation. I have taken dvds from the library on Iraq, Iran, Turkey, Afghanistan and they are quite scenic. Mountains have moisture have the air is cooled as it rises. Water condenses and the mountain sides get rain.
If there is a train to Iran and Iraq, it will be to carry natural resources to china.
Let me know when you read about this speed train in next 5 year plan of Chinese communist party. Otherwise peace out.

Yetos
23-05-13, 07:32
I have seen dvds of the Trans-Siberian railway system. It is impressive and most of the view out of the windows are Taiga trees. In window it is just snow and trees. I don't any tourist would take this rather boring journey. The Silk road would be through different countries and different cultures. The scenery would be varied as there will be mountains, valleys, cities and deserts.

Note: I am not familiar with European units. What is lvl, kgr = kilogram? E= euro? Mexico decision ? what is that? I don't all that Europe decided. Actually I learnt a lot about Europe from Eupedia and you. Thanks. lol.

Is lvl = level?

6 level dock are marines/docks that huge merchant ship can reach,
in mediterenean there is no 6 level dock, only Netherlands has in EUrope,
until today only 5 level is the max in the close meditterenean sea, so a 6level ship can only disembark its cargo in open sea.

China and Mexico have almost 0 trade,
Mexico does not recognise china as memeber of commerce society, so most chinese products are forbiden there, (commercial isolation, no trade except some)

LeBrok
23-05-13, 08:38
China and Mexico have almost 0 trade,
Mexico does not recognise china as memeber of commerce society, so most chinese products are forbiden there, (commercial isolation, no trade except some)
You have to update your information Yetos. 15% of all Mexican imports are from China, worth 52 billion in 2011. I think your information is from 80s.

oriental
23-05-13, 19:49
http://www.silkroad-by-rail.com/

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/along-the-silk-road-at-220mph-chinas-highspeed-rail-revolution-1934738.html

http://www.industrytap.com/reviving-the-silk-road-connecting-chinas-high-speed-rail-to-europe/1278

http://english.ctrip.com/tours/89163/

The airports are all crowded and also with security searchs maybe the fast train is the way to go. I read in China all the airports are crowded and long lineups.

oriental
23-05-13, 19:59
China and Mexico have almost 0 trade,
Mexico does not recognise China as member of commerce society, so most chinese products are forbiden there, (commercial isolation, no trade except some)

I think LeBrok is right. Mexico does import Chinese stuff. However, China with its one child policy now has less youths and companies are finding it hard to get cheap labour for its new factories and older workers are demanding higher wages so China is gradually moving out of the cheap labour and Bangladesh is the new 'cheap labour'. Unfortunately with the garment building collapse you can see how businessmen operate. Bunch of psychopaths.

Yetos
24-05-13, 19:42
I think LeBrok is right. Mexico does import Chinese stuff. However, China with its one child policy now has less youths and companies are finding it hard to get cheap labour for its new factories and older workers are demanding higher wages so China is gradually moving out of the cheap labour and Bangladesh is the new 'cheap labour'. Unfortunately with the garment building collapse you can see how businessmen operate. Bunch of psychopaths.

yes around India and still in Africa businessmen are working many times as fortunehunters,
on the other hand China manage to pass the high technology so the problem of birth will not be shown at very close future,
I heard that is a good opportunity to open a house for old people there.

if the world close its borders, countries with big rate of birth will be forced to more poverty, and slowly will take the industry since they do not care about polution,

oriental
24-05-13, 21:58
The world population at 9 billion will be a great problem. Bad leaders only lead their country to disaster by not curbing births. Disease and war will surely follow. Look at the Arab Spring it is the doubling of population in Muslim countries which practise polygamy. Disease will follow as there is so much poverty and no money for sanitation, etc. Bad leaders only fill their own pockets and hide the loot in Swiss banks or tax havens. The UN is not doing enough to foster birth control.


good opportunity to open a house for old people there
The local communist leaders are just as dishonest so you have to be careful. All the riots in villages are because the local communists are confiscating lands and building factories without adequate compensation.