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BakodiP
24-03-13, 00:57
The Genetics topic J2 page has some interesting statements for me about J2b. There stands: 'It is conceivable that a minority of J2b ... from the Caucasus region migrated to the Volga-Ural region in the early Bronze Age'. My question is how could it be conceivable? Is there any scientific paper about this theory? Or what's the basis of this thought?

Anthro-inclined
24-03-13, 01:45
The Genetics topic J2 page has some interesting statements for me about J2b. There stands: 'It is conceivable that a minority of J2b ... from the Caucasus region migrated to the Volga-Ural region in the early Bronze Age'. My question is how could it be conceivable? Is there any scientific paper about this theory? Or what's the basis of this thought?
My advice to you, is take all the information pages with a grain of salt. They are all written buy one guy, and alot of what he says are his own theories, and havent yet been proven by the wider scientific community. However there are sources he provides at the bottom of each page. Also I dont know much about J2, but it is quite frequent in the caucasus, its highest frequencies are among the Ingush at 88%, so it does seem concievable that it moved in from there. I dont think its the same subclade though, he also states that a minority of J2b moved from the Caucasus, not most of it, I think he believes that the majority came via the Balkans.

BakodiP
24-03-13, 12:28
Thanks for the info! In Tatarstan there are some J2b2 people according to FTDNA projects, and also there are some Ashkenazi Jewish people in Eastern Europe (probably Khazars), so this hypothesis could be true, but I thought it has some scientific facts.

MOESAN
24-03-13, 17:30
My advice to you, is take all the information pages with a grain of salt. They are all written buy one guy, and alot of what he says are his own theories, and havent yet been proven by the wider scientific community. However there are sources he provides at the bottom of each page. Also I dont know much about J2, but it is quite frequent in the caucasus, its highest frequencies are among the Ingush at 88%, so it does seem concievable that it moved in from there. I dont think its the same subclade though, he also states that a minority of J2b moved from the Caucasus, not most of it, I think he believes that the majority came via the Balkans.

i have no authority on the matter but I can say I don't find this statement too aventurous: facts as archeologic ones, anthropologic (phenotypes) ones and the presence of some Y-DNA HGs in central russian regions all indicates a kind of osmose at pre- and Bronze Age between E-Balkans-Carpathians (and surely before that) and W-Asian regions (Y-I2a1b, and also traces of some Y-E1b among numerous Y-R1a and some 'dinaric' types - I have not the detailed SNPs but all that make the presence of some Y-J2 not too surprising (mixed with Y-E1b and others, from E Balkans) - the exchange zone surely included too the N-Caucasus region - I find difficult to go deeper in the details without more definite SNP but...

BakodiP
24-03-13, 18:23
What kind of archeological and anthropological evidences are you referring for? Which Bronze Age cultures exactly?

MOESAN
06-04-13, 00:21
What kind of archeological and anthropological evidences are you referring for? Which Bronze Age cultures exactly?

I 'll have some hard work to find again the spred elements I took in account here - for genetics, I base myself on modern populations (when I said Western Asian for this aspect, I did a mistake in terms: it concerns for the most Eastern Europe (Moldavia, Ukraina: the center of my supposed osmose place) - i'm not doing a scholar work which would oblige me to note every source I use- I 'll try to gather again my "sources" an if so answer you -
for Y-J2 I exposed only a personal thought: without knowing more it appears to me that this Y-HG is old enough in Greec and Balkans and not only a late Bronze Age arrival (it's true it would be better knowing if it is J2a or J2b, thise last one more specific to Balkans); but even if it is an other J2 arrived at Bronze Age only, they could very have taken part in the exchanges between E-Europe and Steppes -