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Yagi
18-04-13, 20:45
Any info on this one?

sparkey
18-04-13, 21:02
Any info on this one?

M423 is the SNP common to the Dinaric/Disles and Isles subclades of I2a. Does that help?

adamo
18-04-13, 21:05
Found all over Dalmatia, ( 60-30%) Croatia,Bosnia-Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Romania,serbia, Macedonia etc. very common in the Balkans. Lower percentages in Moldova, Ukraine, Poland, Belarus, near Slovakia and Czech Republic, Albania, Greece (10-20%).

Yagi
18-04-13, 21:19
so i have seen, im new to this so i am trying to understand the tests and all the info that is out there.....

adamo
18-04-13, 21:22
Good, you will learn much with time as we are all learning, and considering that many members of this board are incredibly intelligent and are a gold mine of genetic information. : )

Yagi
18-04-13, 23:58
nice to hear.... =)

KN29
20-08-14, 01:13
Hello. I ordered a 23andme DNA kit. According to their preliminary prediction, my paternal haplogroup is I2a2a (old classification) - M423+. I also downloaded the raw data, and I tried to analyze it with other genetic tools. I got several other results, which included haplogroup I2 (M438 present) or haplogroup I2a1b. I also test P212 negative and P126 negative (which isn't very common for haplogroup I). So, basically I am I2a2, but they told me that I could be I2a2a (although M359 and P41.2 are no-calls, the company considers them present). I also have P285+ (common for R), but P229-. What do you think about my ancestry? My paternal line comes from Russia (maybe southern Russia).

Thank you for your time.

Best regards.

sparkey
20-08-14, 17:21
Hello. I ordered a 23andme DNA kit. According to their preliminary prediction, my paternal haplogroup is I2a2a (old classification) - M423+. I also downloaded the raw data, and I tried to analyze it with other genetic tools. I got several other results, which included haplogroup I2 (M438 present) or haplogroup I2a1b. I also test P212 negative and P126 negative (which isn't very common for haplogroup I). So, basically I am I2a2, but they told me that I could be I2a2a (although M359 and P41.2 are no-calls, the company considers them present). I also have P285+ (common for R), but P229-. What do you think about my ancestry? My paternal line comes from Russia (maybe southern Russia).

Almost all I2a-M423 from Russia is L621+ L147.2+, also known as I2a-Dinaric or I2a-Din. The other I2a-M423 branches are rarer and mainly northwestern European, so it would be a surprise if you were one of them. Although I2a-M423>L621>L147.2 is nicknamed "Dinaric," it is not exclusive to the Dinaric Alps, but rather is common among all Slavs, as well as some neighboring ethnic groups like Romanians. You'll find plenty of discussion around here about how I2a-Din got its present distribution, with little agreement in sight.

KN29
20-08-14, 19:53
Hi. Thank you very much for your answer. I wanted to know more about the I-P41.2 (P41.2/M359.2), which is very rare, and apparently different from I-L147.5 (I2a-Din). I don't know for sure which one I belong to, yet 23andme told me it could be the first (but there are no obvious markers to be sure).
So, I'd like to ask 3 questions:
1. Is this a bizarre subclade? Wikipedia says in Haplogroup_I-M438: I-P41.2 (P41.2/M359.2) Very rare (2 in Bosnia and Herzegovina, 1 in Turkey, 1 in England and 1 in Croatia). Would it be more possible for me to be I-L147.5? I-(L147.5) Typical of the northern Balkan populations, especially the populations of Bosnia-Herzegovina and Croatia; also found with high frequency in Moldavia and Romania and high haplotype diversity values, but lower overall frequency, among the populations of Slovakia and the Czech Republic (aka I2a Dinaric), despite what 23andme says.
My haplogroup was determined more by eliminating other subclades of I2a, but not my confirming P41.2.
2. Are there any info on the geographic distribution I-L41.2? (except for the info on wikipedia)
3. How could I confirm my subclade using Y-SNPs? Are there any companies that offer cheap tests for this? 23andme gave me a lot of SNPs, their test is quite good, but I am not sure of my subclade, and I'd need to test 2 or 3 other markers (like P41.2).

Sorry for the discomfort. Thank you for the time.

sparkey
20-08-14, 21:21
Bernie Cullen talks about I2a-P41.2 in the comments here: http://i2aproject.blogspot.com/2014/03/big-discoveries-in-i-p372-tree.html

Basically, it's unknown other than from a handful of samples in scientific studies, which offered too little information to even say where it is on the tree. It could be a subclade of I2a-Din.

Importantly, he says:

I have noticed for a coupple years at least that 23andMe seems to call some people I2a2a but I think it's very unlikely that they are P41.2+. Please check their value for this SNP if if you find anyone with i4000110=C or i4000190=C then they are M359.2+/P41.2+. If they have T, not genotyped, or a no call for these result there is no reason to think they are M359.2+/P41.2+

A good working assumption is that you are I2a-Din. If you want to be 100% sure, try FTDNA or Geno 2.0. Bernie Cullen is actually a good person to talk to if you want advice about additional testing.