All Europeans are related back to 1000 years ago.

ebAmerican

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German and Swedish
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"Anyone alive 1,000 years ago who left any descendants will be an ancestor of every European,"

"The researchers were surprised to find that even individuals living as far apart as Britain and Turkey shared a chunk of genetic material 20 percent of the time. To explain that degree of genetic commonality, the researchers say those pairs of individuals would have to have a huge number of common genealogical ancestors 1,000 years ago — a number that takes in everyone who was alive in Europe back then."

"Eastern Europeans, in contrast, showed more relatedness than the average, perhaps due to the Slavic expansion into that region more than 1,000 years ago."

Graham Coop, an evolutionary biologist at the University of California at Davis, told NBC News.

Their findings were published on Tuesday in the open-access journal PLOS Biology.

I'm not a geneticist, but this seems dubious.

http://www.plosbiology.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pbio.1001555
 
I read the NBC News link posted by Geno Project Facebook site. I think it's a bunch of cr*p! 2000 samples from Europe... that's not a great amount, and I don't think it represents anything. They didn't do archeogenetical research, so how can they talk about Europeans 1000 years ago? It really sounds like 'Biritsh scientists' found out that chocolate is bad for health, next week another 'British scientists' found out that chocolate is good... I don't think this study has anything to do with science at all!
 
There is some interesting tidbits. On a whole most Europeans look to be related, except the Italians. The Italians show more heterogeneity to the rest of Europe (interesting). Within specific population groups (UK for example) there is more heterogeneity, while looking inside than out. Those in the UK who had less Irish decent had more of the German component. The authors contributed it to the Celtic and Germanic differences. Italy is interesting, because it shows it was a truly international hub in ancient times. The authors contribute the Roman Empire and it's attraction by peoples far and wide. The homogeneity of Europe shows that after the late Neolithic not much new DNA entered into the picture, that the people of ancient Europe traveled extensively from the Mediterranean to the Baltic Sea and From Ireland to Turkey and vice versa intermingling. The study also proves that diffusion of cultural ideas is nonsense, and the transmittal of ideas and culture was by migration (people).
 
Italians correlate a lot with Western Europeans, their Neolithic elements of J2 (E3b is only 10% national level) is what makes them stand out but they are far more European than say, Greeks, who are really "outliers" in Europe.
 
Italians correlate a lot with Western Europeans, their Neolithic elements of J2 (E3b is only 10% national level) is what makes them stand out but they are far more European than say, Greeks, who are really "outliers" in Europe.

What makes you say that? People on here say the same thing about Albanians but according to my Autosomal Dna I came out all European.
 
Italians correlate a lot with Western Europeans, their Neolithic elements of J2 (E3b is only 10% national level) is what makes them stand out but they are far more European than say, Greeks, who are really "outliers" in Europe.

On the studies PCA maps they had Italians as the outliers with Greece in-between Italy and the rest of Europe. J2 maybe European Neolithic but it is relatively small percentage compared to other dominate haplogroups in Europe. The study is not about Europeanism, it's about how closely related each group is to each other comparatively speaking. Spain has the most heterogeneous population, but is still more closely related to other European countries than Italy. I would interpret this as Italy having more foreign DNA influence than any other country in Europe. This makes sense because Italy housed the greatest empire the wold has ever known, and was known as an international city for commerce. All roads lead to Rome! It's only logical they would be the furthest removed.
 
What makes you say that? People on here say the same thing about Albanians but according to my Autosomal Dna I came out all European.

It's not about Europeanism. European is a geographical term, like American (although it is usually associated with the US). The Mexicans and Canadians are technically American (North). The Study was demonstrating how closely related Europeans were to each other. Italians out of the group were least related. It has nothing to do with who is European or non-European.
 
Italians correlate a lot with Western Europeans, their Neolithic elements of J2 (E3b is only 10% national level) is what makes them stand out but they are far more European than say, Greeks, who are really "outliers" in Europe.
10% of 60 mil of Italy is 6 million Italians have e-v13 haplogroup. 25% e-v13 in Greece is 2,5 million. So why 6 milion E-v13 Italians is not an outlier, but 2.5 milion Greeks is? Don't forget that J1 arabic has huge presence in Italy whereas in ballkans is missing.
 
J1 does NOT have a "huge" presence in Italy, Greeks do NOT correlate closer to other Europeans as they have the highest Neolithic components ( J2+E3b+G) accounting for slightly more than half of their y-DNA, the Spanish cluster very close with other Europeans, Western Europeans in particular and Italy is in between Spain and Greece?; at the other extremity. Italians cluster with Swiss, French, and many other Western Europeans as their R1b levels are in a zone considered still very/quite high (50%), whereas the common European hg's of Greece are a low level spread of I2a(15%) R1a (15%) R1b (15%) and then a nice 55% chunk of Neolithic foreign components, to approximate. If Italy is not Western European, if its an "outlier" then Greece is very much an outlier as well.
 
Finns are a MAJOR outlier, as are Sardinians....but the totality of Italians?? Really?....I guess Greeks are part of outliers too I guess.
 
10% of 60 mil of Italy is 6 million Italians have e-v13 haplogroup. 25% e-v13 in Greece is 2,5 million. So why 6 milion E-v13 Italians is not an outlier, but 2.5 milion Greeks is? Don't forget that J1 arabic has huge presence in Italy whereas in ballkans is missing.

your calculations make no sense, they ONLY work IF the whole Italian population was tested.
The 10% of E is for Italians that did a test. You need to also consider which regions where mostly tested. your 10% would be lucky to reach a number of 100000 Italians

I doubt that even 10 million Italians have ever been tested.

IIRC the only euro country to test all or nearly all of its population was Estonia. And I think they test children at the start of primary school...for free
 
Interesting so then the most precise genetic results must be those of the Baltic Estonians, who are patrilineally a Finno-Slavic genetic composition (37%) R1a and about (40%) N1c nt to mention 10-15% hg I, I1a in particular.
 
The problem i see with this study and Italy is that they didnt chop the Italian sample.
Every study has shown that Italians are diverse from each other, N. Italian and S. Italian do not cluster with each other and the Sardinians cluster in a world of their own.

However, this study has lumped the Italians together, and therefor gets the diverse results it has gotten:

Figure 2A shows the distinctly bimodal distribution of numbers of IBD blocks that each Italian shares with both French-speaking Swiss and the United Kingdom, and that these numbers are strongly correlated. Furthermore, the amount that Italians share with these two populations varies continuously from values typical for Turkey and Cyprus, to values typical for France and Switzerland.

The study also shows that the Italians as a whole (North to South and the islands) are not mixed with each other

Spain and Portugal showing very few common ancestors with other populations over the last 2,500 years. However, the rate of IBD sharing within the peninsula is much higher than within Italy—during the last 1,500 years the Iberian peninsula shares fewer than two genetic common ancestors with other populations, compared to roughly 30 per pair within the peninsula; Italians share on average only about eight with each other during this period.

Not surprising, since Italy didnt exist until 1861.
Would have been more revealing if they chopped the Italian sample;

Great study in total though
 
Just one fact, they tested at about 2000 samples.
5 samples from Russia (population: 143 347 100)
839 samples of Swiss French origin (population: whole Switzerland 8 100 000)
I have no more questions...
 
Sardinians should not even be considered Italians, and southern Italians have much higher Neolithic component (about 50%; as much as greece or Albania) but north-central Italians fit very well in the Western European genetic sphere. I particularly like the segment stating certain italian samples cluster with French and Swiss ( the R1b u152's obviously) and others with Turks and Cypriots ( the middle eastern J2's and some of the E3b's.) it's really Italy's Neolithic predominant blood in the south that sets it apart from much of the rest of Europe, but even in the south there's STILL 25-35% R1b, so its another piece of an equally sliced 3 piece pie between R1b,J2 and E3b and even hg G frequencies go up reaching a maximum but definite 15% in the south. Hg G reaches 20% on Sardinia where it is responsible for the exotic and indigenous Nuraghi culture. In northern Italy, R1b levels hit 55-60%, making it a mini France or Belgium, its considered R1b dominant territory fitting very well in the west European genetic landscape. J2 and E3b are far rarer in the north being allotted 10% each. Most other hg's don't really have appreciable frequencies there to even bother mentioning. Central Italy has 40-45% R1b, slightly less than half, making it like a mini central Germany, although instead of I1a and R1a ( Scandinavian and Slavic) levels rising, it is Mesopotamian J2 and north-African E3b that rises. 20% of central Italians are J2, thanks probably to the ancient Etruscans, but again, only 10% are E3b. In southern Italy, 25-30% are R1b, making this region like a distant Poland or Hungary where only 1/3 to 1/5 men are R1b, this is no longer Western European core cluster area. 25% are J2, and another 20-25% are E3b, not to mention 15% G. On Sicily, 25% are R1b, 28% are J2 and 25% are E3b. There a many parts of southern Italy+ Sicily, even central Italy where J2 or E3b dominates in a village or region, but overall, on a national level within these regions ( total genetic composition of southern Italy) ( total genetic composition of Sicily), on a total scale of the entire island etc. the J2 alone or the E3b alone never overtakes the R1b levels, so if you combine Neolithic blood then its 50% compared to 30% R1b, but on their own ( E3b and J2) never overtake the R1b , even the southern most areas are an equally split pie of the three haplogroups more or less. Although, if analyzed province by province, area by area, region by region, then you will find many areas in south Italy for example, where J2 controls 37%, 44% of men within a city or region.
 
I never even said Italians cluster with Germans I said French and Swiss, considering half of italian men are R1b.
 
I never even said Italians cluster with Germans I said French and Swiss, considering half of italian men are R1b.
Since a good percentage of the Swiss are actually italian by origin, you might be right about them.
Regarding the French, only the north of italy, is the same distance from the French as they are from Romanians/Bulgarians/Albanians. However, even North-Italians are closer to Spanish/Portugese than to French. That's because the French genetically are considerably germanic. Most italians are about 2 times closer to Balkans than to France. Look into genetical-distance stuff for proof.
 
Since a good percentage of the Swiss are actually italian by origin, you might be right about them.
Regarding the French, only the north of italy, is the same distance from the French as they are from Romanians/Bulgarians/Albanians. However, even North-Italians are closer to Spanish/Portugese than to French. That's because the French genetically are considerably germanic. Most italians are about 2 times closer to Balkans than to France. Look into genetical-distance stuff for proof.

Thats exactly the problem with studies that dont chop the Italian sample,

from the study Ralph-Coop et al. 2013 (posted above)
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One can see three patches of Italians samples, the top clusters close to the French (partially with); the bottom clusters with the Greeks and close to Cypriots and Turks. But one can only guess as to what patch indicates what sample (North? South?). Not specified.
Also clearly shows Italians dont cluster with each other; Studies are always more revealing/informative when they chop the Italian sample [North - South - Sardinia]

also from the study; showing the diversity within Italy:

Figure 2A shows the distinctly bimodal distribution of numbers of IBD blocks that each Italian shares with both French-speaking Swiss and the United Kingdom, and that these numbers are strongly correlated. Furthermore, the amount that Italians share with these two populations varies continuously from values typical for Turkey and Cyprus, to values typical for France and Switzerland.
 
Thats exactly the problem with studies that dont chop the Italian sample,

from the study Ralph-Coop et al. 2013 (posted above)
fetchObject.action


One can see three patches of Italians samples, the top clusters close to the French (partially with); the bottom clusters with the Greeks and close to Cypriots and Turks. But one can only guess as to what patch indicates what sample (North? South?). Not specified.
Also clearly shows Italians dont cluster with each other; Studies are always more revealing/informative when they chop the Italian sample [North - South - Sardinia]

also from the study; showing the diversity within Italy:

Figure 2A shows the distinctly bimodal distribution of numbers of IBD blocks that each Italian shares with both French-speaking Swiss and the United Kingdom, and that these numbers are strongly correlated. Furthermore, the amount that Italians share with these two populations varies continuously from values typical for Turkey and Cyprus, to values typical for France and Switzerland.


This is correct in what you say. northern italians are related to southern -french and northern iberians.
The L'oc language is very close to northern italian, while l'oil of northern france was due to the frankish invasion via the north.
L'oil became the modern French language , but l'oc is still spoken
 

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