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joechill01
06-06-13, 22:11
I understand that P312 is considered pre-Celtic/Italo-Celtic and is dominate in the Iberian and lower France but I have so many questions regarding P312, like why is it only found around the Iberian peninsula? Was it because of war or was it a cultural thing? Did the other branches of R1b like U152 and M222 evolve so much culturally speaking, that most P312 no longer identified with their cousins and stayed around Spain?

Also what ancient civilization do you all think carried the P312 haplogroup? If many consider U152 Gaulish and M222 Gaelic, would it safe to assume P312 is Celtiberian or is the only for Z196 mutation? I know I might have my dates wrong but perhaps P312 were the Cimmerians or were the Cimmerians L11?

adamo
06-06-13, 23:00
Yes. It would be more than safe to assume P312 was celtiberian And Aquitanian. All of Iberia + much of the western half of France. Outside of this sphere levels start falling dramatically. It is linked to the Iberian peninsula.

Nobody1
06-06-13, 23:17
I think MOESAN had a good explanation in Genetic Genealogy & Haplogroups > italian genetisc > page 1 > post #11

might want to look that up

joechill01
10-07-13, 20:23
I think MOESAN had a good explanation in Genetic Genealogy & Haplogroups > italian genetisc > page 1 > post #11

might want to look that up

Thanks, I was able to find the post and found it interesting.

Any new info on P312?

joechill01
12-07-13, 17:27
Any reason why of all the R1b mutations, there is hardly and info on P312 as compared to L21, U152 or U106?

Dubhthach
14-07-13, 02:34
Majority of Iberian P312 is actually DF27+. This is a fairly new snp discovered in 2012 I believe. It's a brother clade to L21 and U152. When you factor it in the amount of P312* drops massively. Within DF27 the major clade is Z196, biggest chunk of Iberian DF27+ falls into Z196+ camp. Interesting enough the DF27+ we see in Ireland tends to be Z196-.

Another of the newer P312 clades is DF19, which has a more northern distribution.

joechill01
18-07-13, 16:51
Majority of Iberian P312 is actually DF27+. This is a fairly new snp discovered in 2012 I believe. It's a brother clade to L21 and U152. When you factor it in the amount of P312* drops massively. Within DF27 the major clade is Z196, biggest chunk of Iberian DF27+ falls into Z196+ camp. Interesting enough the DF27+ we see in Ireland tends to be Z196-.

Another of the newer P312 clades is DF19, which has a more northern distribution.

Since my bday is coming up soon, I would like to know what I should ask for from FTdna. Should I test these different SNPs (as I tested negative for the other p312 branches and do have a strong family tie to Spain) or should I order a 25 marker test? I would like to know what these different tests will reveal compared to each other, a list of pros and cons will help greatly.

joechill01
19-07-13, 16:23
How is FTdna ancestral origin feature? Is it accurate?

If I post the information I have gathered about my y-dna here, do y'all think you can predict if my hapologroup goes any further down the P312 branch or least help me paint a picture what the information is trying to tell me?

Mikewww
22-07-13, 20:04
Any reason why of all the R1b mutations, there is hardly and info on P312 as compared to L21, U152 or U106?

I don't think there is any particular reason other than most people in R1b-P312(S116) already know their downstream subclades so they are off and busy on those.

Paul D mentioned this earlier but P312* is getting much smaller. The biggest encroachment into the P312* space is DF27. A very high percentage of old P312* (P312+ L21- U152-) people are coming in as DF27+. DF27 appears to be very much of the nature of L21 or U152 in size and age. The rate of positive tests coming up for the old P312* is quite, in the 80th percentiles. On top of that DF19 is a fourth brother that is nothing to sneeze at, although not comparable with the big 3 (L21, U152, DF27).

There is another brother too, L238, but he appears to be quite small in numbers.

The net is the new R1b-P312* must be L21- U152- DF27- DF19- and L238-. By the time you run that gauntlet, there just isn't that much left over.

The R1b-P312 project is adjusting its focus and mention to support the reality of the big 3 subclades and their large and focused projects.
http://www.familytreedna.com/public/atlantic-r1b1c/default.aspx

The P312 project is focusing more on the different types of and recruiting DF19, L238 and true P312* people. There is project news/charts, etc. at http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/R1b-P312-Project/

Parafarne
18-07-17, 09:33
hi mike, look df19 is prevalent in germany and england so what u think is it gallic or germanic? i am confused.