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MOESAN
08-06-13, 11:31
I post here my opinion for I did not know where put it - answers are not needed but if they are positive suggestions...

I am very sad when I see the confusion send by some chains of posts in a lot od threads concerning History, genetics or linguistics: a lot of time is steadily lost for this reasons (sometimes like in some tennis games where we see the ball going without any break from left ot right and from right to left, it is to say, between only two 'good enemies'); some aspects:
- citations of old scholars works which are completely out of time today and disproved (it is not to say ALL the old scholars works are of no worth OR that there remains not some good data to find in them) -
- ancient classical sources made of repetition of stories without any direct witness: old «images d' Epinal», old 'a priori' and so on...
- very often good scientific sources are bad interpreted by persons who did not take time to understand them or who have not any basic knowledge and logic to understand them -
some persons pertaining to certain ethnic groups seem having some revenge to take upon History (true or false history, it is right) and upon ancient historic opponants, what push them to adopt agressive verbal deportment nobody need here -
- the superiority-inferiority concepts are dangerous ones, and if people want speak about them, then, they can (under authorization of the moderators) create a specific thread and not polluate the other threads -
- someones do not have any understanding about the dynamic of populational genetic and about the links between individual facts and statistical facts (genes transmission, selection and drift, and here I repeat 'selection' is not always a straight-away process): saying «this haplogroups is the mark of this ethny» without precising what SNP of this haplogroup is a nonsense BUT saying «haplogroups have nothing to do with ethnies at any stage of History» is ALSO a nonsense -
- comparing ancient stages of languages with modern stages of these languages is a perilous sport which needs at least a basic knowledge of the phonetical evolution of EVERYONE of these languages: in slavic languages we see some words that show links with germanic ones, but not all of them at the same stage of History, because they have not all of them the same phonetic evolution from or to germanic languages, I write «from or to» because the direction of loan is not always the same when there is loan – it is important concerning the story of these words and what we can conclude about material culture or geographical origin... -
- the concept of variance in haplos is to be taken with care, because the population which shows a high variance is not always the source population of an haplo: all depend on the presence or not of the majority of the variants in the same population (because the variants can have been send there by different people) and even in this case, the place of living of the highly variated population is not always the place of origin of this population; so we are doing very often hypothesis which need later confirmations – (I believe Maciamo and others wrote this yet)-
- very often WE (I am in this WE) focalize on ancient stages of pre-/proto-history forgetting Histroy kept on running at more recent times – (as excuse I 'll say that the most of our ancestors had been settled in the most of our regions at ancient times for as time passed the density of population made more and more difficult to change genetic basis in a drastic way – it could change in future by acceleration of emigration and at local level by creation of «ghettos», and I recall too the overflow of european immigration into America where previous populations were scarce earlier) -
- our threads are made by people who try to understand well the past – sure, the future will send us a lot of surprises, good or bad, according to preferences, and the knowledge of past could be of little help, so we can speak calmly about past wihout any bias or prejudice
sorry for having been so long...

No offense to anybody, it is not my aim
have a good week-end all of yours

LeBrok
08-06-13, 17:17
Great observations Moesan. I see exactly the same way.





I recall too the overflow of european immigration into America where previous populations were scarce earlier) - Super example from modern times how Agriculturalists (Europeans) replaced Hunter-Gatherers (prairie Indians) in North America, based on technologies, enhanced food production and thanks to this higher population growth.
In Central and Central/South America, where natives were already agriculturalists replacement process didn't happen on similar scale. Majority population is still native or mixed.