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adamo
11-06-13, 11:06
It's interesting to note that Lycaon once inhabited Lycaonia, in present day southern turkey, from there he moved to Arcadia in the southern Peleponnese. Among his sons where Oenotrus, Peucetius, daunus, Messapus etc. Oenotrus gave his names to the oenotrians that would move to Enotria (southern Italy from Paestum to the toe of Calabria.) Oenotrians is derived from Greek Oinos, "wine", the "wine cultivators". As many middle eastern people's such as certain regions of ancient Armenia, turkey, Azerbaijan and Iran where very strong at, and the first to cultivate wine. Through middle eastern pelasgians may be how wine would make its way to Etruscans, Greeks and eventually French Gauls. Peucetis and his two brothers where also sons of Lycaon and thus derived from a very similar Anatolia to Greece to Italy origin. Most sources claim the iapygians where straight up Cretans. The Etruscans where probably a very similar group to these Enotrians, Peucetians and Daunians. Etruscan civilization was markedly anatolian (of Asia Minor origin) and the iapygians of apulia had their own pottery strikingly similar to Mycenaean/Minoan era pottery suggesting a Greco-Anatolian link. Then later, with the Greeks of Magna Grecia, came even more middle eastern J2 lineages with the introduction of Ionian, Achaean, Dorian greeks etc. colonies in southern Italy. Also there was greek settlements as high up as the coast of Marche, Ancona is a good example. The major outliers where the Elymians who may have had an ancient Iranic/Phoenician link and a few ports off the coast of Marche where known for producing purple dye (heavily associated with Phoenicians and possibly haplogroup J2/T men.) The men of haplogroup G2a arrived long before all this though, a rare and isolated group today, that can still be found in southern Italy at appreciable frequencies (15%).

adamo
12-06-13, 09:51
Another interesting link is that the oenotrians descended from Lycaon inhabited parts of basilicata in southern Italy, then known as Lucania. (Lycaonia was land of Lukka people.) also a region called Pisidia is nearby. Pelops, who was linked to turkey founded one Pisa in Peleponnese Greece and another one near Etruscan territory in Tuscany. During the ottoman domination of southern Italy, the theme of Lucania was "revived" with its re-instated capital "Tursi".

Nobody1
13-06-13, 00:39
Neither Pausanias nor Apollodorus even mention Peucetius, Daunus, Messapus etc. as sons of Lycaon
And only Pausanias mentions Oenotrus;

Apollodorus - Book III
Let us now return to Pelasgus, who, Acusilaus says, was a son of Zeus and Niobe, as we have supposed,142 but Hesiod declares him to have been a son of the soil. He had a son Lycaon143 by Meliboea, daughter of Ocean or, as others say, by a nymph Cyllene; and Lycaon, reigning over the Arcadians, begat by many wives fifty sons, to wit: Melaeneus, Thesprotus, Helix, Nyctimus, Peucetius, Caucon, Mecisteus, Hopleus, Macareus, Macednus, Horus, Polichus, Acontes, Evaemon, Ancyor, Archebates, Carteron, Aegaeon, Pallas, Eumon, Canethus, Prothous, Linus, Coretho, Maenalus, Teleboas, Physius, Phassus, Phthius, Lycius, Halipherus, Genetor, Bucolion, Socleus, Phineus, Eumetes, Harpaleus, Portheus, Plato, Haemo, Cynaethus, Leo, Harpalycus, Heraeeus, Titanas, Mantineus, Clitor, Stymphalus, Orchomenus,

Pausanias - Book VIII
But in the third age after Pelasgus this region had a great increase both of cities and inhabitants. For Nyctimus, who was the eldest of Lycaon's sons, had all the power in his hands: but the other sons occupied different parts of the country, and each built a city in that part which pleased him best. Hence Pallas, Orestheus, and Phigalus, built the cities Pallantium, Oresthasium, and Phigalia...............But the youngest of his sons, Oenotrus, having received money and men from his brother Nyctimus, passed over with a fleet into Italy: and hence the country in which he settled was called Oenotria, from the name of its king. And this was the first army that left Greece, and became a colony: for neither do I find, after the most diligent search, that any barbarous nations prior to Oenotrus migrated to foreign lands.

Lycaon was King of Arcadia and son of Pelasgus; Dionysius records that the first Pelasgian wave into Italy was from Arcadia; "seventeen generations before the Trojan War" - and the leader was Oenotreus;

Only Pherecydes links the Peucetii (iapyges) with the Oenotrians -

Sir William Ridgeway - The Early Age of Greece (1901) - Cambridge Uni. Press
Stephanus Byzantinus -
"Pherecydes (Dionysius I. 18) states that Oenotrus was one of the twenty sons of Lycaon son of Pelasgus, and that the Oenotrians were named after him, as the Peucetians on the Ionian Gulf were after his brother Peucetus. They migiated from Arcadia (Dionys. l. 11) seventeen generations before the Tiojan war, with a multitude of Arcadians and other Greeks; who were pressed for room at home."

Herodotus records that the Iapyges [Messapii / Daunii / Peucetii] were from Crete;

Herodotus - CLXX
they were unable to return to Crete, they remained there, and built the town of Hyria. Instead of Cretans they took the name of Messapian Iapyges'37, and from being islanders they became inhabitants of the continent.

Strabo records a connection to Iapyx, son of Daedolus brother of Icarus;

Strabo - Book VI
They say that these Cretans were the party who sailed with Minos to Sicily, and that after his death, which took place at Camici, in the palace of Cocalus, they took ship and set sail from Sicily, but in their voyage they were cast by tempest on this coast, some of whom, afterwards coasting the Adriatic on foot, reached Macedonia, and were called Bottiaei. They further add, that all the people who reach as far as Daunia were called Iapygians, from Iapyx, who was born to Daedalus by a Cretan woman, and became a chief leader of the Cretans.

However the language of the Iapyges [ Messapii / Daunii / Peucetii ] was an Indo-European, closest to Illyrian;
So the Iapyges remain mysterious;

adamo
13-06-13, 03:40
I love your iapygians-Cretans link, but peucetis and thus by default his brothers daunus and Messapus not to mention Oenotrus are sons of Lycaon, who is linked to his homeland Lycaonia. The accounts of who lycaon's 50 sons are varies from account to account.

adamo
13-06-13, 07:04
Then Lycaon migrated to Arcadia in the peloponnese, that's where his sons where born, prior to that, he alone came from turkey. Does anyone know if there's a link between peloponnese and Pelops?