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tjlowery87
23-06-13, 01:11
what the diffrences between i1 and i2a p.37 in Germany,history,genetics etc?

zanipolo
28-06-13, 09:19
In regards to I2a p-37, Moldovans have 19% ...there highest marker by far............why is that?

adamo
29-06-13, 05:58
the difference is that i1 probably arrived from scandinavia (norway+sweden) or denmark. the i2a arrived from the balkans (bosnia.romania,croatia) and moved northwest, into germany. i1 is much more present in germany than i2a is.

pyromatic
29-06-13, 07:02
the difference is that i1 probably arrived from scandinavia (norway+sweden) or denmark. the i2a arrived from the balkans (bosnia.romania,croatia) and moved northwest, into germany. i1 is much more present in germany than i2a is.

It seems the idea that I1 originated in Scandinavia is fading, as more and more SNPs are discovered and Eastern Europe is better sampled. I'll refer to a recent post by Ken Nordvedt concerning the matter:


CTS6364+ is the gateway to both L22+ and a portion of L22- which includes a couple more easterly Europe clades as well as an eastern Scandinavian (Finn/Swede) clade. And the generic CTS6364+ L22- includes a robust cluster from the ancient Old Prussia territory. The early clades of L22+ which are Z74- show a transitional geographic territory which is not decisively Scandinavian. And then throwing in the demographically robust Z63+ population with its eastern tendencies relative to Z58+ I1, and then checking out the temporal order of the nodes to all these divisions of I1, it leads me to think the earliest I1 populations which started to flourish only about 4500 years ago were more easterly than Holstein area. More like Pomerania or Prussia. But I don't think we can bet the ranch on any of these scenarios yet.

Scandinavia probably was populated by multiple migrations, bringing different types of I1 as well as other haplogroups at different times into Scandinavia. And Jutland being one of the links, its diversity if unusually large which I don't really know is the case, could very well be explained by its location as compared to deep Scandinavia which is more like a geographical cul de sac. Denmark actually is quite sparse in representing the deep Scandinavian clades; I think there was negligible " back migration" from Sweden or Norway.

The deep-in-Scandinavia clades and subhaplogroups of I1 L22+ are later (Z74+) branch lines of the tree, and are the best bets for founders having lived solidly up in Scandinavia. These populations also show younger tmrcas.

Only in old familiar Europe with all its boundaries and present day "countries" or cantons of the EU would we be "debating" Jutland versus Holstein versus Pomerania as a place of origin 4500 years ago. How few hours could one drive from one end to the other of this small region?

adamo
29-06-13, 08:35
30-35% of danish males are i1

Fire Haired
29-06-13, 09:51
what the diffrences between i1 and i2a p.37 in Germany,history,genetics etc?

first of all y dna i2a1 p37,11 aka i2a1 is in the i2 family i2 and i1 split about 21,000-25,000ybp y dna i2 then broke down into i2a, i2b, and i2c split about 15,000-20,000ybp the i2b and i2c lineages did not become as popular and did not form new subclades but i2a was ver succesful it breaks down into i2a2 (formally known as i2b) and i2a1 they split about 13,000ybp today i2a is the most popular y dna i type in contiental europe i2a2 is mainly around germay and britain and ireland but it is spread out in very low percetages throughout most of europe

map of i2a2 it used t be called i2b
http://www.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup-I2b.gif

most of the i2a2 in scandnavia was spread by prto gerrmanic speakers about 4,000ybp it orignalley was only in contiental europe

y dna i2a1 p37.2 is about 10,000-15,000 years it breaks down into wo major groups i2a1a which is wester europe and i2a1b which is eastern europe both are around 8,000-10,000 yeas old i2a1b is stll very popular in eastern europe it is the second most popular haplogroup after r1a1a orignalley the vast majority of eastern europeans had i2a1b but after protbalo slavic invasion 6,000-5,000ybp and greeks inter married with alot of mid easterns but easern europeans owe most of thier ancestry t the i2a1b people today it is still 40% in former yugoslavia and reachs over 30\% arounf the black sea it is usulley over 15% in eastern europe

the western subclade i2a1a is very unpopular today so there have been four i2a1a1 samples found in france two from 5,000ybp and wo from 4,700ybp but he vast majority had non european g2a which came to europe with farming the ancient iberians of spain would have had alot of i2a1 because the highest in spain are in eastern spain areas the iberians lived also the sardinens who did not face r1b l11 proto italo celtic and proto germanic invasion 5,000-4,000ybp lik the rest of western europe did they still have 37% i2a1a1 and 15% g2a the i2a1a1 subclade is only in spain and sardne basque have highest besides sardinens at 12% modern spainsh and italiens have mainly neloithic ancestry they come fro farmers wh had mainly g2a but still alot i2a1a


here is map of i2a1a
http://www.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup_I2a.gif

y dna i1 is about 25,000years old it is the only y dna subclade found in every area of europe about 10,000-12,000 ybp it migrated to Scandinavia and baltic area they where the main ancestors of modern scandnaviens, baltics, and northwest Russians their signature is 60% blond hair and 705 light eyes many people have debated if modern scandnaviens are from the first settlers 10,000-12,000ybpn modern scandavien i1 all traces to one man who lived abour 10,000ybp no one bu Scandinavia decend from him this means he most likley lived in scandnavia also the uralic language in finland is about 7,000-8,000 years old we have fund the knda cultre which spread from siberia to northeastern europe 7,000-8,000ybp they also conquered baltic sea area but baltic speak balto a indo euro language but they have 405 uralic y dna n1c1 even though their neoghbors the poles do not and we have evdence indo european culture conquered them 5,000 and we have y dna r1a1a from that culture and it is 40% in baltic so this means the very light haired and eyed nordics with y dna oi1 already where spread out in all of scandnavia at least 8,000ybp they where the first scandnviens no doubt today i1 is 40% in most of scandnavia but almost all thier blood is from i1 people that is why they have higher light hair and eye percentage than rest of europe they are a unque ethnic group

the i1 nordics most likely migrated from north spain the evidence is mtdna h1,h3,,v orignated in spain about 15,000ybp this group rapidley spread acroos europe and northwst africa at least 15% of europeans mtdna is from them these people also spread u5b1b experts call it the iberian refuge http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=iberian%20refuge%20h1%20h3&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CCoQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov%2Fpmc%2Farti cles%2FPMC540273%2F&ei=no_OUYq_PKjj4APIh4H4BA&usg=AFQjCNEiZdeMm4fVGYhNcspRbDtLM2xAiw&bvm=bv.48572450,d.dmg

today h1 and h3 are most popular in north spain at about 25-40% there just about as high in scandnavia also mtdna v is 50% in sami scandnaviens and they have 50% u5b1b1 this is sami unque subclade it is about 8,000 years old it is most related to berber north african u5b1b which shows it came from iberian refuge so most scandnavoen mtdna comes from the iberian refuge this group was migrating and populating europew like crazy right around the time scandnavia was first settled they are the most likley canidtes also o prove more of iberian refuge 12,000 year old mtdna in mooroco north africa most had h unknown subclade but 4 had v a specfic iberian refuge haplogrup found in noth wst africa also it has been proven that mtdna h1 in northh africa came from mesloithic and paloithic europea inter marriagehttp://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=h1%20in%20north%20africa&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&ved=0CDAQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.plosone.org%2Farticle%2Finfo% 3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0013378&ei=LZHOUbb9DvSi4APzi4CYDQ&usg=AFQjCNH1tVsRRpmNNYni093qSXchJFvGVw&bvm=bv.48572450,d.dmg

so i would guess ancestral forms to scandanvien y dna i1 is in western europe

here is map of i1
http://www.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup_I1.gif

zanipolo
29-06-13, 10:07
first of all y dna i2a1 p37,11 aka i2a1 is in the i2 family i2 and i1 split about 21,000-25,000ybp y dna i2 then broke down into i2a, i2b, and i2c split about 15,000-20,000ybp the i2b and i2c lineages did not become as popular and did not form new subclades but i2a was ver succesful it breaks down into i2a2 (formally known as i2b) and i2a1 they split about 13,000ybp today i2a is the most popular y dna i type in contiental europe i2a2 is mainly around germay and britain and ireland but it is spread out in very low percetages throughout most of europe

map of i2a2 it used t be called i2b
http://www.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup-I2b.gif

most of the i2a2 in scandnavia was spread by prto gerrmanic speakers about 4,000ybp it orignalley was only in contiental europe

y dna i2a1 p37.2 is about 10,000-15,000 years it breaks down into wo major groups i2a1a which is wester europe and i2a1b which is eastern europe both are around 8,000-10,000 yeas old i2a1b is stll very popular in eastern europe it is the second most popular haplogroup after r1a1a orignalley the vast majority of eastern europeans had i2a1b but after protbalo slavic invasion 6,000-5,000ybp and greeks inter married with alot of mid easterns but easern europeans owe most of thier ancestry t the i2a1b people today it is still 40% in former yugoslavia and reachs over 30\% arounf the black sea it is usulley over 15% in eastern europe

the western subclade i2a1a is very unpopular today so there have been four i2a1a1 samples found in france two from 5,000ybp and wo from 4,700ybp but he vast majority had non european g2a which came to europe with farming the ancient iberians of spain would have had alot of i2a1 because the highest in spain are in eastern spain areas the iberians lived also the sardinens who did not face r1b l11 proto italo celtic and proto germanic invasion 5,000-4,000ybp lik the rest of western europe did they still have 37% i2a1a1 and 15% g2a the i2a1a1 subclade is only in spain and sardne basque have highest besides sardinens at 12% modern spainsh and italiens have mainly neloithic ancestry they come fro farmers wh had mainly g2a but still alot i2a1a


here is map of i2a1a
http://www.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup_I2a.gif

y dna i1 is about 25,000years old it is the only y dna subclade found in every area of europe about 10,000-12,000 ybp it migrated to Scandinavia and baltic area they where the main ancestors of modern scandnaviens, baltics, and northwest Russians their signature is 60% blond hair and 705 light eyes many people have debated if modern scandnaviens are from the first settlers 10,000-12,000ybpn modern scandavien i1 all traces to one man who lived abour 10,000ybp no one bu Scandinavia decend from him this means he most likley lived in scandnavia also the uralic language in finland is about 7,000-8,000 years old we have fund the knda cultre which spread from siberia to northeastern europe 7,000-8,000ybp they also conquered baltic sea area but baltic speak balto a indo euro language but they have 405 uralic y dna n1c1 even though their neoghbors the poles do not and we have evdence indo european culture conquered them 5,000 and we have y dna r1a1a from that culture and it is 40% in baltic so this means the very light haired and eyed nordics with y dna oi1 already where spread out in all of scandnavia at least 8,000ybp they where the first scandnviens no doubt today i1 is 40% in most of scandnavia but almost all thier blood is from i1 people that is why they have higher light hair and eye percentage than rest of europe they are a unque ethnic group

the i1 nordics most likely migrated from north spain the evidence is mtdna h1,h3,,v orignated in spain about 15,000ybp this group rapidley spread acroos europe and northwst africa at least 15% of europeans mtdna is from them these people also spread u5b1b experts call it the iberian refuge http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=iberian%20refuge%20h1%20h3&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CCoQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov%2Fpmc%2Farti cles%2FPMC540273%2F&ei=no_OUYq_PKjj4APIh4H4BA&usg=AFQjCNEiZdeMm4fVGYhNcspRbDtLM2xAiw&bvm=bv.48572450,d.dmg

today h1 and h3 are most popular in north spain at about 25-40% there just about as high in scandnavia also mtdna v is 50% in sami scandnaviens and they have 50% u5b1b1 this is sami unque subclade it is about 8,000 years old it is most related to berber north african u5b1b which shows it came from iberian refuge so most scandnavoen mtdna comes from the iberian refuge this group was migrating and populating europew like crazy right around the time scandnavia was first settled they are the most likley canidtes also o prove more of iberian refuge 12,000 year old mtdna in mooroco north africa most had h unknown subclade but 4 had v a specfic iberian refuge haplogrup found in noth wst africa also it has been proven that mtdna h1 in northh africa came from mesloithic and paloithic europea inter marriagehttp://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=h1%20in%20north%20africa&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&ved=0CDAQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.plosone.org%2Farticle%2Finfo% 3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0013378&ei=LZHOUbb9DvSi4APzi4CYDQ&usg=AFQjCNH1tVsRRpmNNYni093qSXchJFvGVw&bvm=bv.48572450,d.dmg

so i would guess ancestral forms to scandanvien y dna i1 is in western europe

here is map of i1
http://www.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup_I1.gif

In regards to I1 and KN notes, it seems that I1 was either lusatian culture people or as he stated old baltic-prussians and pomerains...the earliest tribes recorded in these areas are the AESTII, VENEDI, LEMOVII, RUGII, HERULI and more which I have forgotten .
since sweden was basically void of people, the influx of I1 from the continent to sweden could easily over populate the scarce population in the country ................similar to when the east germanics left modern Poland, the slavs came in and altered the old haplogroups to favour themselves ( unintentionally )

Fire Haired
02-07-13, 07:28
what the diffrences between i1 and i2a p.37 in Germany,history,genetics etc?

Y DNA I1 is about 25,000 years old Y DNA I2 P37.2 is also known as I2a1 it is a young subclade and only about 13,000-18,000 years old it is it has two major subclades I2a1a and I2a1b each I2a1a is only foun in western Europe it spread about 10,000-15,000ybp right before the Neloithic age two 5,000 year old samples in southwestern france had Y DNA I2a1a1 which is a subclade only found in iberia and sardine I2a1b is extremly popular in central and southern eastern europe it ranges from 50-30% it also spread right before teh Neloithic age about 10,000-15,000ybp t used to be the majority of all y DNA in eastern europe before Balto Slavic languages R1a invasion y DNA I1 is very old so it is found in every spot in Europe in Scandnavia it is I1a2 in contential Europe it is I1a1, I1a3, I1a4, and I1b

tjlowery87
07-07-13, 17:22
In regards to I1 and KN notes, it seems that I1 was either lusatian culture people or as he stated old baltic-prussians and pomerains...the earliest tribes recorded in these areas are the AESTII, VENEDI, LEMOVII, RUGII, HERULI and more which I have forgotten .
since sweden was basically void of people, the influx of I1 from the continent to sweden could easily over populate the scarce population in the country ................similar to when the east germanics left modern Poland, the slavs came in and altered the old haplogroups to favour themselves ( unintentionally )I agree with knordvedt